Singapore 777 went to LHR and returned a short while ago.

BAW1502 JFK-MAN has now returned after diverting to GLA earlier.
Does anybody know where QR041 went?
Cheers
TM

LPL got the MON Calgary and the JN Las Palmas, but they returned to MAN at 8ish.

Anyone know anything about a possible new service this summer from Lagos? Apparently it was rumpured last summer, but looks likely to start this summer instead.

Hey, yea the FCA SFB landed at 0530 at EMA followed by the TCX POP which didn't get airbourne again till 1300 when she returned to MAN empty. When I passed through the terminal at 1045 the TCX pax were still waiting for their bags!! I believe Menzies handle them there, anybody know why they took so long?

Vuelo

Any ideas on who plans to run the route? :)

Manchester-5
 

Flyboy543
Menzies did handle the TCX A330 diversion but unfortunately their Hi-Lo broke down as soon as they put it on the aircraft.They had to unload the bags by hand and then when the Hi-lo was repaired they had to transfer some of the freight from the front to the back. That took a long time and meant the a/c was at E.M.A. for about 7 hours.

Snow
 

Making comments about "the place falls to pieces" and "the Uk grinds to a halt" in respect of snow affecting UK airports is disappointing. Snow or slush contaminated runways are a major hazard to aircraft and in the UK, like today, we predominantly experience wet snow which, if it accumulautes on the runway surface, MUST be completely cleared to ensure good braking action along the runway full length. Whilst the diversions may have been an inconvenience, safety comes first.

Tigermike
Does anybody know where QR041 went?

The Qatar went to LGW I believe


Vuelo
Anyone know anything about a possible new service this summer from Lagos? Apparently it was rumpured last summer, but looks likely to start this summer instead.

I heard a rumour last year involving Bellview.... Could be them ???

bigMAN

Snow
 

Hear Hear Musket 90

There was at least 2 inches of wet snow and from the METAR reports looks like it was snowing for a couple of hours. By contrast, Ken Dodd Intl down the road only appears to have only had a rain and snow mix.

Suzeman

WOW 2 inches !

and still the huge fleet of sweepers couldnt keep one runway clear, you didnt previously work for British Rail did you ?

I have watched operations continue in far worse conditions at other major airports, why do we have such a huge problem in this country with what was by North American standards a snow shower ? :rolleyes:

Well Mr 777 no need to get your knickers in a twist.

If you read the post properly you will see that I was only stating the facts of what I could see out of my window and looking at the METARS to see what happened. And applauding the fact that Musket 90 was stating the safety requirements to explain what airports must do in these situations.

I wasn't trying to justify whether or not they had done a good job - I have no idea as I wasn't out on the runway. You appear to know a lot about it - were you out on the runway clearing snow this morning? Pray tell us what they are doing wrong?

And just to clear the matter up, I don't work at the airport and have never worked for British Rail.

Suzeman

Snow
 

If North American airports receive a lot of snow, they will have to have the infrastructure to deal with it in order to operate. If MAN gets snow on just one or two days a year, it is probably cheaper to have a basic snow clearing team and risk a few diversions than invest in a set of advanced clearing equipment which will hardly ever be used.

MAN777 & All,

I recognize that it is fashionable to mock UK airports for 'grinding to a halt' during conditions of snow, and I accept also that airports abroad which receive far more snow often give the impression of coping better. But do not be deceived. Musket90's posting is absolutely on the money.

Most snow in the UK falls at temperatures very close to zero; this means that it is "wet snow" which rapidly turns to slush. This is the worst scenario for aircraft operations as braking action is severely compromised and that means safety is a key concern. Furthermore, slush can often turn to ice later. Slush can also be flicked up onto aircraft control surfaces and freeze onto the cold metal there. This can be highly dangerous and has been the cause of accidents in the past.

Airports abroad which appear to cope well with snow often receive their falls with the temperature way below freezing. This dry powder snow is a different matter altogether; it does not melt (in conditions which remain well below freezing) and when compacted can actually provide a good braking surface. Hence, under these conditions alot less effort is required to return a runway to safe operations. But be assured that even these airports, when they receive wet snow at either end of their Winter season, suffer exactly the same issues which UK airports face routinely. Wet snow and slush accumulations must be cleared from active runways - period. Safety allows for no other course of action.

I too hate to see aircraft forced to divert away from MAN. I too become frustrated by the fact that snow clearance is a time consuming process. But I would rather see this every time than witness an aircraft skid off a runway or gather dangerous ice contamination on its control surfaces.

Educate yourselves a little. Read up on the properties of wet snow and dry snow. Once you appreciate the difference you will begin to understand why a Canadian airport keeps operating at -20C and MAN seizes up at -1C. And once you recognize this you will be able to explain to people around you (fellow passengers) that airport personnel are putting passenger safety first (at considerable expense) and not just contriving to delay your holiday. As a passenger would you really want things to be handled any differently?

And by the way, a comment on that eternal joke about railways and leaf mulch in Autumn. Greasy leaves are a very serious safety concern for rail authorities, and they know well that many of their customers will snigger and mock their efforts to maintain safe braking conditions for trains. When I read the annual headlines mocking "leaves on the line" delays, I do laugh. I laugh at the crass ignorance of the journalist concerned! And I applaud the rail authorities for running the gauntlet of public abuse as they prioritize safety on behalf of their ungrateful (or maybe just ignorant) customers. If necessary, I will even politely ask a whingeing fellow passenger if they would really like their safety to be compromised.

I hope that this would be the reaction of most posters on here also. If we will not speak up to defend those busting a gut to ensure the safety of the travelling public, then operators may become tempted to take the path of least resistance - until an incident occurs. We must never allow that to happen.

All the best.

SHED.

El Al
 

And its me again - on a completely different topic!

'Travel Trade Gazette' dated 21st March carries a small report which states that El Al has plans to return to Manchester. The piece quotes Mr Len Judes who is President of the Israel-UK Chamber of Commerce. He says that El Al wishes to tap in to the conference and incentive market in the Manchester area, and hence plans to reintroduce MAN flights.

My reading of this is that Mr Judes does not appear to be a representative of the airline itself, so make of that what you will. But at least it may offer some insight into the way they are thinking. Perhaps Thomsonfly's success is concentrating some minds in Tel Aviv?

Cheers, SHED.

Good post shed:ok:

Don't forget...we operate on a "Blacktop" Runway surface in the UK. [i.e No Snow]
Thanks shed...articulate as usual
watpiktch

Thanks for putting me straight on the subject of snow, its a shame that no one detected that my post was supposed to be tongue in cheek:)

Link JB
 

Firstly ,thanks Shed for the detailed explanation on the snow clearance. Pity none of us spotted 777s tongue in cheek attitude in his rant - sorry post.

And now for something completely different. What is the current state of play with Link JB (once known as the 06 Fast Turn Off)? I see it was closed last week and is NOTAMed to be closed to the end of May. I heard a story that it may be permanently withdrawn due to structural issues?

If this is so, I'm sure it will have an impact on runway ops when on single runway 05L as aircraft will take more time to vacate as there is no RET anymore.

Suzeman (with tongue firmly out of cheek :p)

If I remember correctly wasn't it the investigation until the Munich air crash in '58 which highlighted the particular dangers of slush as opposed to standing water or dry snow?

Well, here's a first:

ML compliments Shed on a Pole on an interesting, informative, and useful post.

:D :D :D

Now, let hostilities resume!

:p :p :p

QR tried to wait it out on Sunday and circle but ran low on fuel and had to go to LGW. One of the CO flights went to DUB. SQ decided to go straight to LHR, which was proving a decent decision as we were pushing back more or less on time.

Then the ham fisted tug operators seemed to get a bit giddy. ;) After pushing back without incident, they proceeded to drag us forward when there was a number of load bangs and then a juddering halt. Cue everyone in the J cabin and the crew up that end all looking around saying WTF was that.
We got towed back to gate (212) and ended up with a tyre change and left an hour and a half late.

Rather surprisingly J was less than half full (first time I've seen that in a LONG time) presumably (and hopefully) due to Easter Sunday. My inbound SQ328 last week was completely full as usual.

LY
 

I bet it is more to do with the fact that LY have seen what a massively profitable success TOM have made of Tel Aviv from MAN and want a piece of the action!

There was a very well known petition in the local Jewish community which aimed to put pressure on LY to return, maybe that has been a factor aswell.

What did they used to operate? Twice a week or so? What were the timings?

LY
 

I'm pretty sure it was twice a week, Mon & Thurs with B757's and they

arrived about 1300-ish.

EL AL
 

They operated for a number of years with varying frequencies & sometimes with a 747 !
I'm surprised they haven't returned to Manchester before now. If they do, I can see TOM doing a runner. It doesn't fit in with their new bucket & spade policy, dropping all city routes.
BMI are also doing very well on the TLV-LHR route. Shame BMI are so dull & didn't pick up the MAN route at the same time. There are opportunities for BMI mainline from MAN if only they would show some bottle. Some routes could be done with "W" flights from LHR based aircraft & crew.

Final comment on the subject of snow
 

Speaking as one with some experience of airfield snow clearing operations -

Shed, your comments are very sound and spot on. The UK wet snow and marginal freezing conditions is much more difficult to handle than typical Scandinavian / North American scenarios. There IS a 'wrong type of snow' and that is what we usually get.

The question often asked by the partially-informed is "you knew it was coming, why weren't you ready for it?". There is a simple answer to this - whilst good forecasting is a bonus, you cannot begin clearing snow until it has fallen.

Bmi should do something like;

first flight up from LHR with midhaul config A320, then 3 times a week MAN-TLV-MAN, 2 times a week MAN-DME-MAN(UN codeshare) and 2 times a week MAN-CAI-MAN(MS codeshare) and then operate the last one back down to LHR. Would give the MAN crews a slice of the midhaul action, with nightstops in Cairo and Tel Aviv whilst filling in 3 currently un(+der)served potential routes.

Regards

Mike

Mr A Tis

Are you sure that EL AL operated B747's into

Manchester sometimes.............??

MM

I definitely remember EL AL 747's in the period 1981-83 (approx) as I used to live right under the flightpath in Stockport. They used to arrive around lunchtime.

Yes I remember them well, usually because I used to miss them being at work in Manchester, Oh well!
Do you remember when they used the Sun D`or B707s if we are going dream again

Ahhhhhh Sun D'or B707's ....remember them well...used to be every Sunday afternoon....Happy days..... Can't remember the 747's though.......they have used 767,757,707 and 737-200 in the past!

I was a young spotty plane spotter in shorts in the early 70s. One winters morning at primary school in Cheadle (3 miles centreline runway 24 MANCHESTER) I remember shouting out in excitement to the teacher and class as I saw an ELAL 747 turning onto finals over Stockport. Our whole class and others poured out onto the playground to watch it glide by.

I think it was one of the first 747s to visit MAN, having diverted due fog at LHR.

Ahh happy days.

EL AL
 

Yes 747's did pop up here sporadically throughout LY's operations at MAN although a lot of the time it was standard 2x weekly 757 and 767 ops. They did operate to Eilat for a very short time too (mid-90's I think) as well as Tel Aviv.

I think for Tel Aviv to have any medium to long term prospects from MAN you would need someone like LY to resume services. As Mr A Tis suggests although it might be doing well for them so far, Tel Aviv doesn't really fit the Thomsonfly model now most of the city pairs have been canned to refocus on the charter market.

El AL 747s operated into MAN more recently but operating in El AL colours for Tesis Aviation Enterprise.

CabinCrew

That was an old EL AL cargo aircraft operating a single visit for Tesis.

Various:

The fog diversion was precisely that!

I would be interested if any of you spotters can provide some dates
for EL AL B747's operating a passenger service into MAN at any time.

MM

Potted History
El-AL operated a series of charter flights and STARTED with the B747 into Manchester flight number was LY5317 operated on Tuesdays in the eighties for about two years then changed to a Sunday with a B707 in Sundor colours usually 4X-ATY finally went scheduled with a mix of of B767/B757 on Tuesdays and Thursdays (via Brussels or Amsterdam !). Service stopped as a result on interfada and economic downturn is Israel long with several other marginal routes.

rutankrd

Thanks for the info and I do remember B707's operating
but must of missed the B747's.

MM

ex spotter
 

i remember el al coming into man. regularly every tuesday sometime during the early 80s.for a season. it used to arrive from gatwick late morning.this was before the regular schedule got started.great sight from under the flightpath.

Question time
 

Question for anyone......

Is Manchester ready for the A380 ??? I noticed that the nearest it has been to Manchester was the fly-by at Hawarden, seem to remember that Airbus brought the A340 here on its worldwide tour but no sign of the A380??

Also heard that last week during bad weather at EGLL the SQ A380 was looking at alternatives and was told that Manchester would not accept and that she had to go to EDDF !!!

If EGCC aint ready is thier any timetable as to when it will be ???

Cheers

Not certain but wasn't there talk of creating an A380 stand at the east end of T3 by modifying Stand 55? Plenty of plans for apron development in that area which have planning permission, but no idea of management timescales...

Sia A380
 

SIA A380 LHR service, has two standard alternatives. Paris CDG & FRA.