Then no doubt if the figures continue the suggested decline then they will discontinue all or some of the flights.

However also take into account the amount of cargo being carried which will affect the economics of the operation.

I have to say, totally unscientific I know, I flew EK in may and both in and out of Manchester was virtually full both in Biz and at the back.

There was no suggestion on my part that there was a decline in passenger numbers on these routes.

In fact compared to a year ago the CAA figures suggest there have been increases to DOH DXB & AUH

DOH up 38%

DXB up 27%

AUH up 7%

AUH shows the smallest increase but it is an increase.

My query related to EY's decision to change timings to give 4 morning and 3 evening departures. The figures by CAA suggest that EY's loads are about 55% and I woundered if this was to try and improve loads.

I must be rememberred that QR on a similar aircraft are carrying more than double the number of passengers and they opreate similar flight timings

In fact based on CAA figures I would query whether EK are doing as well as many would suggest.

It may be that the CAA figures do not tell the whole story but when it is suggested that the EK flights are nearly always full the figures would suggest otherwise.

June figures for DXB show 36402 pax. This would suggest 304 pax per flight'

If as reported previously by others the capacity for a 77W operating to MAN is 430 this gives a load of 70% on average.

A good load but not as high as some would suggest. Further although 2012 is some years off could in 4 or so years EK really operate 2 Daily A380's from MAN

Reverting to EY if the CAA figures are right then can EY really continue on 55% loads unless freight is a major factor on this route.

Viscount

Viscount, appreciate your comments, did say that my evidence was unscientific based on my experience.
I dont work in pax but in cargo and can only say that on the cargo side it has and is often mentioned about a 3rd flight this would suggest they are more than satisfied.

pwalhx

As I don't work at MAN I can't speak from first hand knowledge.

Everything suggests EK are more than satisfied with their ops from MAN and there have been many rumors of a third flight never mind the possibility of A380's in the future.

My comments are more directed at EY where the CAA figures would suggest that they are not doing as well as many would suggest and I doubt that they could continue with a Daily service if CAA figures are correct. I hope I am wrong'

What is the cargo position with EY to AUH and do you know how JETT8 and Great Wall are doing.

At the moment it would seem that cargo is the only positive area

Viscount

It`s cargo again quite often cargo nearly pays for the pax so they are a bonus and has been mentioned somewhere EY are out performing Gatwick.
I was alway told that a long haul flight took 3 years to mature so I would think EY are quite happyand as the market matures I expect the loads to creep up towards 200 mark, remember it took Qatar quite a while

Ian

Ian

Point taken. However as I posted earlier EY no longer serve LGW they moved to LHR some time back

Viscount

Viscount, Great Wall and Jett8 will probably be doing well inbound, will take some time for them to establish themselves over here as their reputation hasn't been good.

However as there is such a demand inbound from the far east the back load as such can be a bonus. Fact is sea freight container space particularly ex China at the moment is at a premium so there is plenty of traffic westbound coming by air instead.

As for EY, I agree with the previous post, it took QR some time to establish themselves, I have no doubt EY will and lets be honest they have the financial backing to take a loss on a route till its established and there is a certain amount of Emirate (in the state not airline) v Emirate rivalry so if EK operates somewhere then EY wants to do the same. So i think they will stick with it.

Good news, looks like MAN will get a MAD service this winter......details not released yet though. Should be announced in next few weeks along with 5 other European cities, all from the same carrier, if murmurings are to be believed.

Any clues on the carrier?

A couple of months ago, LS said they wanted to increase their operations at the airport and bring in more a/c, maybe this is an expansion plan.

Or EZY!:}:}:}:}:}:}

EZY
 

if im honest i would like EZY to come to man.

Ohhhh nooooo...

Please dont mention MAN & EZY in the same sentance again.

You will be hung drawn and quartered by the LJA crew !

Last time someone mentioned EZY coming to MAN regional PPRuNe warfare broke out :uhoh:

There are two chances of EZY coming to MAN....slim, and none
MAD + 5.....equals [depending on time of day] approx 3-6 stands...we are 4% down and still have to hold the inbounds :{ usually "because they are too early" :ugh::=
bb

Why 3 to 6 stands? If an airline is introducing 6 routes ex-MAN, perhaps they are planning for 2 aircraft each operating 3 routes each day? Or if it were to be FR, perhaps just the 1 aircraft with each route being 3 or 4 weekly?

If it were FR, they would realise that MAN is open 24 hours an would operate all routes daily!

:ok::ok:

Looking at recent FR route announcements, relatively few are now being brought in on daily services - typically 3 or 4 per week which them allows them the chance should the service perform well the opportunity to a base another aircraft or 2 to add either 4 or 3 more flights per week to that destination.

The reason for this is because they are starting to enter larger airports which means FR have competition unlike their normal routes which consist of airports such as GRO and LPL where competition is non-existant.

When they enter ALC, PMI, TFS etc, they start to play with the 'big boys.' You are now thinking FR is bigger than the likes of TOM, XL, FCA, MYT, MON, TCX which is true, but these airlines have been bringing passengers to these areas for many years and WILL get passengers on their aircraft as they are mostly providing a full package holiday. EZY has taken the market at secondary airports such as LPL and BRS where these routes were once with little competition.

FR have to fill 189 seats on their aircraft AND now compete with the tour operators and obviously EZY and ZB who are ruthless on these routes with exceptionally high loads. They can't just throw these carriers off the route with their low fares because many of these holidaymakers are there to be put up in a hotel without any messing.

That is why FR have 3 & 4 times weekly flights as they do not have a monopoly on many of their new routes. I congratulate FR for realising this.

Obviously, most FR routes are successes so I would be surprised if the new routes aren't increased when new aircraft arrive from across the pond.

Going back to the freight carryings in and out of MAN, the Airport's figures for June show EK carrying 1596 tonnes (+3.8% on June 2006) , EY 805 tonnes (+34%) and QR 500 tonnes (-8.3%). This will undoubtedly be an important source of revenue for these carriers.

Suzeman

Did anybody know about the new CX service to begin next year - passenger?

Of course, this is subject to government approval, but do we really think they will turn them away?!

Will this be a A330, A340 or B744? About time MAN got Hong Kong onto the map!

I will believe it when it is queing for a T2 stand !

egcc
It'll be behind the EK A380. :rolleyes: :E:ok:

Can we predict any new services in the next 12 months?

Obviously CX would be one of them and looks like it could be coming true, but who else?

Personally I think these could be interested (NOT ACTUALLY LOOKING!), please correct me if you think I am wrong, just thinking aloud:

Easyjet, Air AsiaX, Thai, Kingfisher, Jet Airways, United, JAL?

MUFC - Bloody hell - you are very optimistic.

Turin - is that the lunch or tea time 380 :}

New record - 7 minutes!

eggc - read the post carefully - INTERESTED!!!:ugh::ugh::ugh::ugh:

I replied to your previous post in 4 minutes, therefore 7 is quite slow really. :ok:

Cannot see Jet Airways coming as they have just done a deal to codeshare ex
BHX with SN via BRU so I`m sure Manchester will go the same way

Ian

I had the very displeasure to spend 4 hours in Terminal 3 yesterday and what a disgusting filthy place it was. We were going to get some hot food but when we went into the cafe the tables were all dirty, there was food all around the tables, on the chairs etc. We gave up. Then we tried to find a nice "clean" seat in the quite vast seating areas. Again, dirty chairs, spills, crumbs, filthy floor. The little tables at the side of the chairs were all choco with glasses, cups, plastic cups, newspapers, and other general rubbish. It was an absolute disgrace.

I saw 4 cleaners all outside the toilets area with their trollies all just chatting. Not once during our 4 hours there did we see any cleaners cleaning the area.

What must our foreign visitors think?

Not a hope in hell. Nothing in the pipeline except freighters to Dublin.:ugh:

or maybe a 777!:=

i'm with you on that spannersatcx you will never see a CX passenger flight in MAN if ever they like to play down at LHR if they do come to MAN i will eat my hat whilst i do a jig up taxiway delta ontop of a tug :O

:ok: rampman

I'd like to see both rampman:eek:, but it just won't ever happen.

That's if you can get an ATC clearance :E
Re CX, read BA
Re QF, ditto
Re MCO,LAX, read BA....sorry London International Airways :rolleyes:
EY 10+ tonnes freigh average
EK 16+ ditto
QR not on my database
Highest Pax...
EY 230+
EK 415+
QR 240+
watp,iktch

c2lass. It's hardly like foreign visitors are coming from pristine places, unless they're Swiss. I agree that it's a disgrace, but I'm pretty sure this kind of situation isn't confined to Manchester Airport Terminal 3. Wasn't there a duty manager on shift at the time? There must be one. If you can be bothered to, please write in to complain; it's obviously not acceptable.

jongeman

No there was no official person going around. If there had have been I would have said something. In fact we were looking out for someone. Didn't think much point in speaking to shop or gate staff. I have visited a number of airports and can honestly say what we experienced yesterday was the worst I have ever seen.

I think I will go an see if I can find a contact and complain as after all if nobody speaks up, then nobody knows there is a problem!

Dirty tables full of pots are the responsibility of the catering companies, principally SSP, but there are others.

However MA's duty manager should be on the floor keeping an eye on things and booting them up the bum if it gets too bad.


It's basic stuff though, isn't it? It's not hard.

Then again, with MAPLC sucking up all the retailers' profit margins with its horrendous concession fees, there's no money left to pay staff enough to make them want to turn up at 3am, walk from Staff West, queue through security etc. etc. They can work at the Trafford Centre, park outside, start at 10am, not get security hassle, and be paid more money.

We did see some of the catering staff occassionally tidying up the tables ( a very basic clean was all they got) however the worst part was the general seating areas.

I take it you are suggesting if the general seating areas are full of pots then it's not the catering companies' concern?

The amount of catering seating is included with the amount of non-catering seating when MA calculates how many seats it needs in a particular area. Thus, you don't need to buy food or drink to sit in a catering seat, and you can take food and drink out of the catering area to consume in a non-catering seat. The caterers pay for some seating, and they create the impression with barriers, different floors, lighting etc. that you have to pay their entry fee of buying something to sit there, but it's not true. Anyone can sit anywhere.

Thus, pots left anywhere are the responsibility of the caterers, and no-one else, to remove, along with wiping up crumbs, spills etc. from the tables, whoever they "belong" to. Deep cleaning, such as spills on the carpet, may come down to the airport's cleaners if outside the catering area. Perhaps that's what you mean?

Either way, it's a basic service requirement to keep the catering area clean. If it's dirty and full of pots, they won't sell as much because people will be put off. Plus there's the hygiene/disease/e.coli angle, especially when it's warm.

Momentary Lapse, I was not really sure whose responsibility it was. I only saw catering staff occassionally clearing plates etc from within their own catering area. The areas outwith this were untouched for the whole time.

Jongeman, yes you are correct it isn't confirned to Manchester T3. You can easily find the same situation in Manchester T1 & T2.
Don't waste a stamp on writing in,because in my experience, MA never reply.

Perhaps this is part of the British disease, whereby nobody ever takes much responsibility for anything and nobody's accountable. That may be a sweeping generalisation, but if I was a duty manager in charge of T3 I'd be obsessed with the general state of the facilities, and also the impression the customers were getting......especially in an international airport.

I thought we hadn't had the good old wishlist for a while. :)

Not only are the old chestnuts CX and TG being brought up again but we've now got Jet, Kingfisher, UA and JL added to the list !!. Boom time is just around the corner by the looks of it :D