Rainboe, perhaps this may be just one of the reasons why the north is better served by airports, and perhaps also may show why some company may potentially want to take the long term investment in LBA rather than making comments such as "higher local authority housing" and "having a Harrier ski ramp at the end, leading to one of the most severe airfield edge precipices is not acceptable"

Key left to right: City rank in Europe, City name, GDP per head in Euro 2005

23 London UK 35,072
25 Edinburgh UK 35,018
29 Glasgow UK 31,893
34 Bristol UK 29,437
43 Leeds UK 25,619
56 Birmingham UK 22,069
57 Manchester UK 21,099
58 Newcastle-upon-Tyne UK 20,499
61 Liverpool UK 16,466

Do you think investing in an aviation facility 13km from the centre of the UK's 5th largest GDP producer is "pouring money into dead projects"?

A few years ago a certain Bournemouth based air freight operator decided to launch a loco airline. It could have chosen from many airports in the UK as its start up, instead it chose a windy, fog bound hill in the north resembling an aircraft carrier away from the core motorway network. It now operates 27 routes from there.

Do you still think LBA is a "dead Duck"?

We'll see in a few months when the sale of the airport has hopefully been completed as to how it has been viewed as investment potential. I think one thing we can be sure of, any investment should it occur won't be for a "quick buck". Leeds City Council's sale is also unlikely to be for a "quick buck", but a long awaited realisation that private investment and management is required in the development of one of the city's key assets for future economic prosperity of its residents and businesses.

Do you think Peel put circa £100m into a dissused RAF base next to an ex pit town for a "quick buck"?

Let's credit Rainboe with stirring up an interesting exchange of opinions rather than the usual stuff.

Regarding surface access the rather grandiosely self-styled Leeds City Region Vision (local government) cites a road link to the airport from the A65 up Scotland Lane way and a tram-train service from Bradford to Leeds via Guiseley, LBIA and Horsforth in its 25 year strategy. Its all subject to some innovative (and ambitious) funding.

from the FT over the weekend. The first confirmed expression of interest as far as I'm aware, although on first impressions are that there are probably better options out there - Abertis for one.
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"MAR properties, a Northern Ireland company that owns Blackpool, Wolverhampton airports is bidding for Leeds Bradford airport, which could be worth about £100m. Based in Belfast and owned by Noel Murphy, Adam Armstrong and Bill Rushe, MAR confirmed it had expressed an interest to Ernst and Young which is handling the sale on behalf of a group of 5 local authorities that own the airport. As Leeds Bradford is a publically owned transport facility, under EU rules there has to be a pre-qualification process as part of the tender, which is expected in the next couple of weeks. Others expected to bid include Abertis, owners of Luton, Cardiff and Belfast International airports, Balfour Beatty, which was part of the consortium buying Exeter airport for £60m and SAVE, the Italian owners of Venice's Marco Polo airport.

MAR also owns office and retail property in Toronto and a shopping centre in Barking east London. The three owners of MAR jointly own Monty's Pass, winner of the 2002 Grand National".

I can't help feeling that the location of this old Yeadon Airport, developed pre-war for aeroplanes that needed far less take-off distance, is now so bad in terms of all the reasons I outlined, that it would be worth going for a new green field site and saving all that runway upgrade work. The new apron would make a very nice Tesco Car Park. It is time to bite the bullet and put the place out of its misery before we become committed to it. Somewhere everyone can get to easily, near road/rail terminals that would serve the whole area. There is a suspicious looking blank area that I recall was quite flat- south of the M62 and just east of the M1. Might bugger up Pontefract, but how it would improve north of Leeds-Bradford! They took the ideal wind alignment for a runway at LBA and built the darn thing at 90 degrees to it! Every approach is an exercise in crosswind landings on a short, violently undulating runway (usually wet)!

This argument has gone the full circle now.

Basically Rainboe, you don't like the place and you could also probably sell snow to Eskimos. All the airport needs is investment and I firmly believe it will get it.

Not quite right. It's accepted the Leeds/Bradford/Huddersfield/Wakefield conurbation obviously merits an airfield with good services, but Yeadon is way out on a limb, and even when developed, it is not going to serve the needs of the whole area. You can say 'well that is where it is....tough!', but it doesn't have to be Yeadon that does the job. But now so much money is riding on the place it is taking on a commercial life of its own, so an unsuitable facility will suck up all that investment and not serve the southern areas, inc Barnsley, and to a small extent Sheffield, at all well.

We are banned down south from ever having any more shopping centres like there are at Meadowhall, Sheffield, because the public actually likes to get in its cars and dare to drive to them. So we have Cribbs Causeway, Bristol, and Bluewater, East London.......and er....that's it. Can you see the objection about Yeadon when the only way to get there is by car, on poor road links, and they're going to grow the place? It's out of town, out in the sticks, a long drive for everybody, esp from the southern part of the area it's supposed to serve, and nobody can call it an acceptable 'green' option. I'm merely trying to express an opinion that good money shouldn't be thrown after bad. Go on, fry me!

Rainboe, obviously your Summer at LBA is taking it's toll.....you'll find a massive new retail development on a brownfield site (like Meadowhall actually) taking shape in West London at White City.
Now to my mind a W12 postcode certainly sounds like the south to me...and yes there will be a car park there (aswell as a new Underground station).
As I said in my last post, don't get into the NvS type arguements.

It is in London served more than adequately by public transport. Look outside London, and there will never be anything again, because as I said the politicians don't want the proles getting in their cars to drive there. Also there is some garbled logic about not wanting town centres to lose their function to out of town stores. So how come an out of town airport with lousy transport links, though some are promised 'sometime in the future' is so OK?

I did quite like flying there. It was challenging, sorted my crosswind landings out on a new type, and I quite liked Leeds. But Yeadon?

Rainboe - thanks for stirring up a lively debate - I've been enjoying the contributions - though I had a quick scan on your other contributions and you generally don't seem to broadcast anything positive about anything to anyone - Leeds or elsewhere! Cheer up.

In the current climate (I assume you all read the newspapers) the likelihood of planning permission for a new airport to serve West Yorkshire or anywhere in the UK is zero. End of story. Given that real-world constraint what is your policy for Leeds Bradford? Close it and concentrate on Doncaster? Lets hear your full argument on this if that is the case - I guess, amongst other things, you're advocating NOT building road and rail links to LBA that form part of the Leeds City region proposals.

I've sussed this Rainboe guy --- he is obviously a TOM employee trying to justify their base closure at LBA............

..........:) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :)

RobT100 - he ain't that bad, reckon he's an AEU jock! and we know the reasons behind their base closure.

A300boy
 

Now I am intrigued ! do we know the real reason why they closed the base ?
However I agree with Rainboes comments about keeping his skills honed as a result of his short session of operations at Leeds this year I hope mine too have been, but I will be coming back for more and relish the thought.
I wish him good luck at his new base next year, he will have to try making one of the turn offs half way down the runway so he can remember our little strip on the hill.

I dont know the reasons behind the closure. Please explain ?

Another airline (bmi) struck a deal with the principal seat taker MYT for the contract. bmi got the work, AEU didn't!

Yes in ref; to Aeu closure.

AEU Came in to LBA when none of the big boys dared..they offerd seats on their aircraft to all the big names, MYT TOM JMC TCook and other niche tour companies...

For Summer 2007...MYT (WHO CLOSED A YEAR ROUND LBA BASE DOWN!) .. wanted a full Aircraft to themselves...

Why Should AEU kick off other paying customers? So....MYT spat its dummy out and that is then end of AEU at LBA and a afew of the new nich routes...

I dont think Atlantic Want BMI to operate the Funchal... so that will operate from elsewhere now or they will seccure and alternative carrier.

So passengers will now be changed on to flights out of DSA..which will be nice when they get the letter through the door... Probly those who keep LBA tickets will be subject to change...oh and not to mention.. offered a lessor product than AEU by bmi charter.

################ :ugh: ##################

Anywho... just wanted to say something about "Weather at Leeds"

The past three weeks!!!! We have had diverts from DSA due to FOGGGG ...would you belive... we have had MAN diverts because..did you know they too get FOGGGGG...... high winds and snow :D

And as someone who operates out of Schiphol airport 6 days a week!!!! One of Europes largest hubs... when it gets windy.... Operations are sometimes reduced to one inbound runway!!!! ...and last year i diverted 4 times due to fog at schiphol....

So peeps... if your airports on the top of a hill or the foot of one.. weather is an issue... So you LBA bashers cant use that ammo anymore :p

Spotted this press release yesterday.
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Coach service to York with Leeds Bradford International

Coach operator First York is planning a new service that will link York with Leeds Bradford International Airport.

The initiate is being launched by the operator, the City of York Council, Yorkshire Forward and the York Tourism Bureau and the service is planned to commence on March 1st 2007.

Peter Edwards, commercial director of First York, told the York Press: "All our partners have something to gain out of this service becoming a success and I do not think it will be long before we will be carrying a significant number of passengers."

Mr Edwards added that the operator has "valuable experience" in providing "high-quality airport feeder services" throughout the country.

In order to supply the new link, First York has purchased three new 'express' coaches, which will run every hour between the city and the international airport.

First, of which First York is part, states that it is the "UK's largest surface transportation company", reporting revenue of £3 billion per year and operating a fifth of all local bus services.

A bit more background on the sale
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Ernst & Young is the lead advisor on the imminent sale of Leeds Bradford International. Leeds Bradford Airport is at the heart of one of the most dynamic regions in the UK. The airport has just celebrated its 75th anniversary and has an exciting masterplan for the next decade to develop new routes and services. The current capacity for transporting passengers out of Leeds Bradford is only three million people per year. The deal will enable significant growth and profitability resulting in this figure more than doubling to seven million by 2030.
On 13 November 2006, the transaction information will be released into the public domain in the form of the pre-qualifying questionnaire and marketing flier, with the shortlist of bidders chosen in the New Year. A preferred bidder is to be selected by March 2007 and the completion is expected to be finalised only a month later.

Richard Tollis, Aviation partner, Ernst & Young says: "We are already seeing strong interest in this transaction from the market, based on development prospects for the business - and perhaps because this may be the last opportunity to acquire a privatising regional airport in the UK". To register interest in the sale contact:

TOM diversion
 

Does anyone know why last nights TOM flight from TFS went to Manchester.
All other flights operated as normal.
WAWKRK

The ban on out-of-town shopping centres is national, it's not a policy specifically aimed at hurting car owners down south. In the south, there's Lakeside, Bluewater and Cribbs Causeway, in the north, Meadowhall, Metro Centre and the Trafford Centre, and between them Merry Hill. That's your lot.

The north isn't more blessed with local airports any more than the south either. London has 5, Southampton 1. Evereywhere that needs one, has got one already, so I can't imagine where else there's demand.

Blimey, how many times have we had this old chestnut when the aircraft is based at MAN ??

Wouldnt have anything to do with the fact that this aircraft was positioning back to MAN anyway.....would it :mad:

RobT100I think what wawkrk is trying to establish is that the inbound from TFS may have actually diverted into Manchester, not re-position, perhaps because X-winds at LBA were a factor last night??

According to Wundergroud weather reports for Yeadon last night.
The winds were very light.
I held back from expressing my opinions about the reasons to go to Man until I knew the full story.
Was the Jet2 flight from TFS at a similar time also a 757?

TOM TFS Diverted to Man yesterday because the Rwy was wet! :confused: (No kidding) this restriction applies to their B738'S although I thought it only applied when landing on Rwy14 with it's shorter LDA. Yesterday 32 was in use. also of interest is the fact that a RYR B738 landed fine around the same time under the same conditions.

Why TOM have this restriction in their company SOP's respecially when they will be using the B738 at LBA so much this winter is a question only they can answer.:ugh: :ugh: :ugh:

I know he was - I was saying the crew perhaps used a cop out to get home for an early night ? No, I couldnt imagine that now :)

Why on earth dont MYT come back then ? crazy (or what)

We are seeing here probably a regret - a regret by MYT that they pulled the LBA base in the first place. But rather than some big-wig at MYT admit they are wrong we are now playing politics.
I wonder how long it wil take TUI to do the same ;)

Charters...
 

HI,
does anyone have any idea who will be operating this years various charter flights? e.g. lapland and norway etc...

i think last year it was First Choice with A321 equipment?

Goldtrail
 

Just noticed that Goldtrail have tweaked their flights to Turkey for next summer. Both still go on a Monday but the DLM is now a morning departure with the BJV staying with an evening flight. The first flights out will depart on the 30th April which means these flights will probably be classed as "Winter Sun" by the airport marketing boffins!
I still can't believe we have only 4 Winter sun charters a week this year. Was it only 2 years ago that we had 4 flights to TFS on a Friday alone?
Looking at Thomson Holidays flights for next summer we have 6 "W" flights with TOM all arriving early-mid afternoon. Tue-ALC, Wed-MAH, Thu-PMI, Fri-CFU, Sat-IBZ, Sun-PMI. The Sat-REU and Fri-TFS are still on sale but showing the old flight times with a based TOM aircraft...any ideas?

Good point SASfox but look on the bright side. Plenty of Jet2 flights to traditional charter destinations including TFS, ACE, AGP, ALC, MJV etc etc. The market is changing......:ok:

If only the commercial traffic could land on 32 like this - would make a world of difference. First 400m of the runway dead-level. Will be interesting to see if dragging the touchdown zone further back is something a bit of money can address over the next few years.

682

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4ZowrUdbrFk

I am guessing pax on REU and TFS flights are on a BMI A320 or Thomsonfly could be basing an a/c 2 days of the week perhaps with a 738.

May I ask a quick question; Why do the airlines not fly Leeds to Gatwick?

Benefits;
Lots of Charter flights from Lgw
A lot more airlines now chosing lgw as their uk base.
Quick connection into London in 30 minutes (quicker than LHR)

Sorry to interrupt the thread, but always wondered why.

Lba-lgw
 

mighty

Yes, this route has been tried several times, and I think the prime attraction would be the much quicker access to South London or the South coast area, both of which have direct train links, as you say. Connecting onto charter routes will account for only a small number of passengers.

The last airline to have a shot at it was BRAL with a 4x per weekday Jetstream 41 service. The passenger numbers were looking reasonable, over 3,000 per month, but then BRAL closed their LBA base and Eastern chose not to continue that route. Given that Flybe are now muscling in on two of Eastern's remaining LBA routes that might have been an error.

The major difficulty is accessing decent slot times at LGW. The peak times of morning and evening are exactly when every other airline wants to arrive at LGW, so slots are very hard to get. Also, a moderately successful route (as LBA-LGW probably would be) is not really good enough when there are potentially much more profitable routes to run. Easyjet, for example, has plenty of slots at LGW and could run almost as many daily flights to LBA as it wanted, starting yesterday, but there are better loads and yields to be had on the routes it does operate.

LGW would be a useful addition to LBAs routes, but the sticking point is more the LGW end of the operation. Similarly LBA-LCY should raise some demand, but when it has been tried too much capacity has been supplied and other background factors have seen the route rapidly withdrawn.

PTH

Thanks PTH

bmi british midlands based Airbus A320 Charter operation at Leeds/Bradford Next summer will now also be operating the Thomson Holidays Saturday Reus Service which was added to the programme this week.

Flight BD 7161 07:00 Depart (LBA) - 10:15 Arrive (REU)
Flight BD 7162 11:00 Depart (REU) - 12:15 Arrive (LBA)

Full programme for bmi based charter unit

Mondays = Leeds-Reus-Teeside-Reus-Leeds
Tuesdays = Leeds-Palma-Leeds-Heraklion-Leeds
Wednesdays = Leeds-Rhodes-Leeds-Fuerteventura-Leeds
Thursdays = Leeds-Faro-Leeds-Zakynthos-Leeds
Fridays = Leeds-Ibiza-Leeds-Mahon-Leeds-Dalaman-Leeds
Saturdays = Leeds-Reus-Leeds-Alicante-Leeds-Las Palmas-Leeds
Sundays = Leeds-Malaga-Leeds-Larnaca-Leeds

Slightly Used Airport For Sale. Apply within.
 

A hat gets thrown into the ring...
http://www.aoa.org.uk/media/latest_n...WS_ID=17988290
Interesting that MAR also own Blackpool with its strong Jet2.com presence. Meeson Air doesn't fly from Wolverhampton yet, as far as I am aware. (In fact I didn't even know that Wolverhampton had an airport, but there you go).

The MAR story has been around for a while Robo.
The new strong contender seems to be Balfour Beatty who have declared an interest.

Thanks, WAWKRK. I only picked it up off the AOA website.

Who else is interested? I have heard also of Dart Group and presumed that Piel Holdings and Manchester Airport might have an interest.

Dart would be interesting as airlines don't generally seem to mix well with airports when it comes to ownership.

You may be more familiar with Wolverhampton airport (or to give it it's correct title "Wolverhampton Business Airport") as Halfpenny Green Airfield - when I lived down there the biggest thing operating was the Islander used for para-dropping, and although there have been big plans mooted I don't think it's changed much...

Also, with Manchester Airport Group considering getting rid of it's smaller airports and with Peel already operating DSA and DTVA, I can't see them joining the fray.

Ah, Halfpenny Green. Of course!

I'll go with your logic on MAG and Peel. Maybe the Sheikh who was supposed to buy Leeds United will appear again, as if by magic ;)

No FNC summer 07
 

Looks like the FNC has been pulled altogether for next summer. Not showing on Thomsons or Atlantics booking pages at all now.
Ah well, at least we still have Jet2 to AGP 23 times a day:bored:
OK not counting Jet2 how many new routes have LBA for next Summer?.....erm......there must be 1 surley????
I know lets play how many routes lost... FNC, PFO, VRN, GRO,
Massive exspansion from FLYBE aswell....SOU goes 3 times daily M-F, 2 on Sun.