Eujet Loads
 

Had a good friend of mine travel on eujet MSE-AMS 19oct and loads were less than 30 on the prime slot one.... tick.......?

Did they say how much they paid for each seat ?

25 people at XXX pounds would have paid for the flight

Havana:

You're quite right, but...

I did a little experiment.

I'd assume that a Friday flight would be (significantly) busier than a Tuesday flight.

I'd assume that by now (Thursday), virtually all the passengers who are going to fly tomorrow have booked, so the fare on offer for tomorrow morning's flight is about as high as it's going to get.

That said, eujet.com is quoting me £54.50 plus taxes for going out MSE-AMS tomorrow. I fear that 30 x £54.50 would barely cover the operating costs, let alone the overhead. And in practice, £54.50 is the highest (or nearly the highest) fare - the average will be a lot lower. I note that AMS-MSE next Wednesday (for example) is £7.00 plus tax.

The tradeoff with no-frills carriers is that the fare may be lower but the breakeven seat factor is higher. It's definitely not below 30%! Twice that (60%) would be more like it, I reckon (I'm being optimistic, allowing for the low ownership cost of the aircraft and the fact that typically, of the "taxes and charges" collected in addition to the basic fare, not all actually gets paid out in taxes and charges due to discounts).

C.

Yes,but ALL new routes have to start this way. Even Ryanair and easyJet probably had low uptakes initially,unless they were GIVING them away!

It's all down to advertising IMO,and they really have to saturate the newspapers,local radio,even TV. I don't know if this has been done.

You also have to remember they are owned by Planestation who own Manston airport. Therefore the airport and the group as a whole profit from the landing fees charged on the tickets as well as from concessions(car parking/retail sales etc).

So even if Eujet make a slight loss this could be offset by the profit to Manston (not sure if Manston are making a profit on this deal I suppose that depends on the load factors as well).

But realistically you could have a point whereby the group profits more from 20,000 passengers paying £10 from a ticket than 10,000 paying £25 a ticket.

Using my many years of bean counting experience I'd say they are f**ked

I noticed that Wednesdays Manston-Glasgow afternoon flt was shared with Edinburgh and was EIGHT hours late arriving. Not looking good , is it?

Have to agree with the bean on that one.......

Airline owned by airport given discounts on landing and passenger fees by airport owner who has a vested interest in them?

What would the EU commision have to say on the matter?;)

If EU Jet are still in business by the time it comes to the notice of the EU....

They're not given discounts on landing fees though, but the landing fees could make the airport more profitable than Eujet is lossmaking so it could be a good deal for the company.

My understanding is that the EU would only become involved if the airport is State owned or Local Authority owned.
As Manston is a privately owned airport I think they are free to offer whatever subsidies they choose.

Have been on EUJET in last 6 weeks;

Madrid - 20ish pax out 17 pax. flight canx on return - see Pax & SLF forum

Dublin - midweek about 30 pax

AMS - midweek about 30 out, 45-50 back

This pm (Friday)

EUJ205 to Amsterdam 71
EUJ207 to Madrid 75

Average load factor varies widely, some routes under 10%, others over 70%.

eujet loads
 

I work as flight dispacher at MJV, where Eujet fly from/to Shannon and Kent.
Today´s flight to SNN (EUJ318) 75 pax
Today´s flight to MSE (EUJ252) 61+03 pax
Incomming flights expected to be nearly full.

I do think there is a great differences among Eujet routes. I would say business routes (where there are, in my opinion two many frenquencies on some of them) loads are not very high, quite different from leisure destinations where loads are quite high.

Regards,

Thanks for the info, Javier.mjv. I think today's MSE-MJV has 2 seats unbooked.

What exactly are business and leisure routes?

The Faro and seaside routes: yes. What are Barcelona and Madrid? A bit of each, perhaps. Do they need to be served Monday to Friday?

Manchester and Edinburgh are doing very well, with both business and leisure traffic. Dublin and Amsterdam are a bit patchier, with better loads around weekends. Prague is getting a Friday flight in December, putting it up to 5 a week. Nice stays at 4. Glasgow midday: is that business?

Does a "business" destination require a service every weekday? I believe that Madrid and Barcelona flights could be thinned out to 3 per week each. Use the capacity to do extra sun services.

I forgot Jersey: what a dog!

It might be a good idea if EUJet were to read Barbara Cassani's book about how he managed Go. That company only started to come good when they started the leisure routes.

I've just found some leisure routes on sale for next summer.

Manston to

Murcia Sun Tue Fri
Malaga Sun Mon Fri Sat(2!!)
Ibiza Wed Sat
Faro Mon Thu Sat

They must be reading the book.

I did not know that Barbera had undergone a sex change op but that as well as 'GO' not bad. I imagine that EU will anyway have a plan as to what to expect over the first months or year. I am a little suprised that they to my knowledge have not undertaken any national advertising just to get the name in feature. There may be people in Kent that still have no knowledge of this newish operation.

HZ123,

I think that as what the seat sale was for according to the EUjet management they think word of mouth and repeat business will come from that promotion. It's probably cheaper than a national advertising campaign as well.

I'll stick with this thread rather than resurrect EUjet Routes.

Further examination of the website reveals more flights f/t SNN.

Aircraft utilisation is as follows

Sun 06.30 start to Faro and return, then Ibiza and return at 19.45

Tue 06.30 start to Murcia and return at 13.15

Wed 06.30 start to Malaga arr 10.30 dep 18.30 return at 20.45

Thu 06.30 start to Faro and return at 13.25

Sat 12.00 start to Murcia and return, then Malaga and return at 01.15 Sun

Any ideas what the planes will be doing at other times, particularly at Malaga in the Wed gap? The weekends will presumably be covered as now, by positioning from/to Manston.

You all seem to be forgetting that this is half term week in Kent, if you cannot put bums on seats this weekend, when can you, i think that the telling times for EUJET will be the next few months, it may be a cold long winter for them.

As for advertising, just pick up a copy of the Kent Messenger and look at their full page ads, or listen to the radio coverage on KM-FM or Rado Kent, the people of Kent are well aware of their presence at MSE.

This weekend's loadings

SAT

MSE PRG 66
PRG MSE 37
MSE FAO 99
FAO MSE 29
MSE DUB 65
DUB MSE 41
MSE MJV 105
MJV MSE 61
SNN MJV 99
MJV SNN 75
SNN AGP 104
AGP SNN 72
MSE EDI 64
EDI MSE 46
MSE JER 51
JER MSE 32
MSE PMI 80
PMI MSE 49
MSE AGP 112 (737)
AGP MSE 45 (737)

SUN

MSE MJV 91
MJV MSE 58
MSE MAD 81
MAD MSE 41
MSE EDI 73
EDI MSE 73
MSE FAO 71
DUB MSE 31
MSE GRO 96
GRO MSE 32
MSE DUB 67
DUB MSE 59
SNN FAO 102
FAO MSE 39
SNN MSE 38
MSE MAN 51
MAN MSE 71
MSE AGP 90
AGP MSE 67
MSE PRG 60
PRG MSE 49
MSE NCE 78
NCE MSE 32
MSE AMS 56
AMS MSE 54

Jes'

Impressive indeed , but to be fair on the other end : MSE - GRO of Oct. 19th had only 6 pax on a 2 hrs sector, " a VIP flight at low cost price " , let alone the ton of ballast that we fly around Europe coz of poor load.....I bet you the shingle start feeling VIP too !!!!
But if I'm impressed with this weekend's figures let me tell you that I am quit concern with the punctuality and the never ending saga of technical defects of Eujet Fleet.

Pax vobiscum.

from egroups
 

"the revised services that are booking NOW. Programme starts on Sunday
27th March.

Faro
Mon dep 10.50 return 17.15
Thu ditto
Sat dep 13.55 return 20.20

Ibiza
Wed dep 10.20 return 13.35
Sat dep 09.30 return 14.45

Malaga
Sun dep 06.15 return 12.25
Mon ditto
Fri ditto
Sat ditto
Sat dep 15.15 return 21.25

Murcia
Sun dep 06.00 return 11.25
Tue dep 09.55 return 15.20
Fri dep 10.55 return 17.20

Despite all the negative stuff that's around, it looks as though the
leisure routes are doing well. 5 Malaga flights a week! Incredible.

"

I really wonder whether it's wise to start Ibiza by the end of March as the season only starts in June or so, but I have not been particularly impressed with their network decisions anyway as it was pretty obvious that all other low-cost carriers flying from UK regional airports were mainly doing well on leisure routes and not on routes like Milan (which failed for Flybe., bmibaby etc.) or Copenhagen. I am not really surprised to see them concentrating on the leisure business, maybe they should have a look at some CAA figures from other airports in order to get the frequencies right (e.g. Ibiza in April :))

There were times (15 months ago) when I flew to Bergamo with Ryanair, Fly-be, Jet2 and BMI baby from the U.K. and was told at check-in that the flight was 98% full ;)

Jes, from your passenger figures above, load factors are averaging at 60% for a school holiday weekend!

To survive, the industry norm is 'more than 80%' begins to make a profit.

http://whipsnade.co.uk/picturelibrar...r_120_wide.jpg

They carried 13605 passengers to/from Manston in September.

At an 80% (Break even) load factor that is.....103 flights in Sept? So if EU flew more than 3.5 single flights per day in Sept, they could be assumed to be losing money, fact?

http://whipsnade.co.uk/picturelibrar...r_120_wide.jpg

Buster,

It's not as simple as all that, I'm not convinced break even is 80%. The management seem to think it's a bout 50%(based on press statements). Also as I've already pointed out a loss making eujet can be funded by planestation if the passenger numbers mean the airport is running at a profit.

Ý have it on pretty good authority that they need bookings of around 3000 pax per day to make it work: however that may not take in to account any cross subsidy from the parent.

Also heard that one F100 was impounded at MXP last week pending resolutýon of outstanding litigation. Anyone know anything about that??

considering their daily seat capacity is only 2808 seats I'd be highly surpisied if they needed 3000 seats filled a day to break even.

serko is wrong. They probably need 3500 bookings per day to break even when their production is 2800 seats perday. seems like they are asking the drain how much it wants poured down it.

Can an airport cross subsidise an airline, even if they own it?

The airline can make a loss if the airport makes a profit! I hope the losses of the airline are less than the profit of the airport!

Now the (Not) sensible thing for another lo-co is to start routes from Manston to the same destinations as EU and get the same ' financial assistance'!

50% break even, bear's do not believe fairy tales!

http://whipsnade.co.uk/picturelibrar...r_120_wide.jpg

Sorry Serko obviously my source was wrong, but with 5 F100s all configured in 108Y that would suggest a total of 1080 seats available per rotation.

4 rotations per day 4320 available seats and 3000 bookings per day would be a load factor of about 70%.

Even accounting for the jet which has been impounded, the leased in 737 more than covers those 'lost' seats.

They can cross subsidise for as long as their share-holders (or creditors?) can stand it.

With Ryanair/Charleroi the problem was that the airport is owned by the state, and it is unfair state subsidies to business that the EU gets worried about.

Unless a private company is engaged in predatory pricing with the intention of putting another company out of business, then the competition authorities aren’t too fussed about what the private sector gets up to.

Not only do the owners of Manston have no obligation to be even handed in offering subsidies to other operators (charter, full service, lo-co or whatever) – if they thought it would threaten the viability of EUJET, they are quite within their rights to say no to anyone else who wants to fly there.

Shares in the owners of Manston rose 15% or so today and according to AFXF London shares - closing features the reason was
"Advanced passenger sales at EUjet looking good"

cool, that sounds encouraging...

does anyone have any inside knowledge of forward bookings? or current load factors???

Jet

Have a look on planestations website, www.planestation.com, there's a nice graph showing the pax load figure projections for eujet, i guess September was sale time, hence the large jump in sales.