DERRY/LONDONDERRY
 

News reports yesterday in Donegal were suggesting that Ryanair were pulling out of the Derry-Stansted service at the end of the year.

Anyone know anything?

Ryanair has confirmed it is to axe its morning flight from City of Derry Airport to London from October.

The airline will operate only one evening flight a day from Derry to Stansted.

Ryanair says it has been left with no option because the runway in Derry is not big enough to accommodate its new planes

It says if the problem is not resolved by the spring, it will terminate all services.

Ryanair says Derry City Council, which owns the airport, has been aware of the situation for more than two and half years.

I just wonder how others operate from Belfast City with a similar R/W.

Don't know what Ryanair are playing at. Runway at BHD is shorter than at Derry, yet can operate A320/321.

Last time I was up that way an A320 was climbing out on its way to somewhere sunny, so a lot heavier than a Stansted bound 738.

Can anyone shed any light? Is the 738 poorer in T/O performance than say a 732 or a 734? Surely it must have similar performance to an A320??

Maybe O'Leary is hoping to introduce new, longer, routes TO Derry. A lot of French, Germans and so on, like to holiday in Donegal. Is this runway extension business to facilitate that?

Or could it be that the airport management just want a BIGGER runway and MOL is doing his best to help.

Or how about now that the Bloody Sunday enquiry is complete there aren't quite so many barristers and such wishing to travel to EGAE hence it only justifies a once a day service...just a thought ...

Poor Derry, they are also going to loose the rail link to Belfast.

But at least the aircraft won't have to hold on final for the train to pass

I think the issue is that Ryanair went for de-rated engines on the 737-800s which give them benefits in terms of lower maintenance costs. The drawback is that they need longer runways and hence Ryanair have been going round beating airports up to extend their runways, in some cases they have - I think Lubeck is one example. In Derry's case it's not so easy as they are owned by Derry City Council and require funding from both the UK and Irish governments to carry out such work, not to mention the effect on local residents.

You couldn't fill one of MOL's new 737's and depart from /city due to performance,he's now selling seats in the toilets so it puts it over its max TO mass,roofracks on oder!!!!
Who was MOL looking to extend the runway! as I'm sure he wouldnt pay anymore monies if it was changed just for him and I hardly think they are paying enough to the airport to justify it.


Its going to be a hard winter,better battin down the hatches:uhoh:

Rgds K.I.L.

Maybe FR should keep the -300's for the likes of LDY, AOC, LRH etc etc :ugh:

The same 737-300s that have recently been advertised in Flight International for lease from the winter season...?!

EGNR the very same -300's. :E

Using the 733s would only put off the day. FR are committed to 738s so short of buying another LCC it's an unlikely scenario.

The neighbours are objecting to LDY's extension.

Just on the subject of LDY, anyone else heard the rumour of a maintenance base for narrowbodies opening.

Well no neighbours of airports wish to see expansion but it is a necessary evil.....:rolleyes:

LDY had it's busiest day ever last week, with an Islandflug 757 and (I think) a 737-300 from Excel Airways going to Lourdes along with the usual scheduled stuff. I'm no expert, but surely if a 757 with 250 people on board, plus luggage, plus enough fuel to get to the south of France can use the runway, then surely a 737-800 can too to get to Stansted, even with under-performing engines? It seems like MOL is trying to black-mail the Council, though if reports in last weeks Derry Journal are to believed then they're at least partially getting the money to extend the runway. (supposedly £12 million of the £20 million asked for. Link: www.derryjournal.com/story/3939 ).

Just a thought, but isn't nearly all of the traffic on the Ryanair Hanh-Kerry flight German tourists? If that route can work why not one to the northwest when Donega's a good two-hour drive at least from the Belfast airports.

As an aside, apparently the Aer Arann routes to MAN and BHX are doing a bit better than projected.

CUTHERE, you would have thought if a 757 could do it a 737-800 could do it, but the 757 has excellent STOL cababilities for an aircraft of its size, thats why it can land at places like Southampton etc.

Put RB211s on a 738 and I'm sure it could make it out too. 752 = one of the more overpowered airframes out there...

If the runway is too short, what is the point in keeping the evening flight ? The explanation given by MOL is the usual nonsense. Obviously there is an agenda behind the announcement.

The reason behind closing the LDY-STN route is simple. They won't have the -300's or the -200's to use. Read between the lines.........

:rolleyes:

Surely Derry isn't the only airport from which RYR operate that doesn't have a long enough runway for their larger fleet. Can we expect others to lose some services too?

Maybe Aer Arann will be tempted by a Derry to Luton if/when RYR stop coming up with excuses and move to BFS.

I think Aberdeen is in a similar position.

BAA are talking about a runway extension.

That is surely a very remote possibility.The thrust of RYR moving to BFS would surely be that they would wish to operate BFS-STN and that would be in direct competition with EZY. This may be the sticking point for TBI.

Maybe time for Easyjet to take over the route using their -300s?

I don't think there is any chance that easyJet will do LDY while they have operate from BFS.

To go back to the Ryanair issue again, this is not particular to LDY, they have also requested runway extensions at other airports on their network. It is a slightly unusual case, since in the past airlines would decide on the most suitable aircraft and powerplant combination (in terms of max thrust etc) to operate the airfields that they operate to or plan to operate to. In Ryanair's case, I understand, they have gone for the low thrust version of the CFM56 for the 737-800 (to save on operating costs), and are looking to the airport owners to extend their runways to allow the aircraft to operate.

Another example of Ryanair turning the previous way of doing things (or in MO'L's terms "bolloxology") of airlines on their head!!

If Ryanair are demanding runway extensions to accomodate 737 - 800s, is there any reason why MOL cannot dip into his considerable reserves and make a contribution however small towards the expenditure required for such extensions.

Perhaps Ryanair are reluctant to commit themselves long term to any airport as they really don't know how any route will perform in the future. The situation at LDY is difficult one. Imagine the scenario where the runway extension is completed and then twelve months down the line MOL sees a more lucrative route and pulls the plug on them. A lot of very unhappy taxpayers to say the least!

There is no reason why he couldn't dip into his reserves, but it's highly unlikely he will when he feels he doesn't have to and he hasn't had to elsewhere. MO'L's mantra is "if someone else can pay why should I".

I am sure that Derry City Council and the UK and Irish governments are concerned that Ryanair could still decide to pull the plug even if they invest in the airport, however, they will be looking at any additional services or third party aircraft maintenance work which may become possible through extending the runway. It will be interesting to see how this plays out.

Allmcc wrote

I cannot believe this ......I AGREE ENTIRELY with you ....off to increase my dosage .....

Why is MOL complaining he hasn't got any 732/3's left to STN-LDY, all he has to do is put a 738 in DUB and exchange for a 732 to go to STN?? there you have it, a 732 doing STN-LDY.

mmeteesside
MME Movements

PS: If Teesside is one of FR's best performing routes (like MOL always says) then why have they waited this long to put a 738 on it???

Because all based aircraft at Dublin are -200 and until these retire you won't be getting an 800 at Teeside.

It seems strange to me for an airline to buy a fleet of aircraft that can’t operate from all of their existing airports. Even stranger that the airline expects the airports to pay for the airlines cock up

But when new shiny planes are ordered, it puts confidence into the shareholders !! Time will tell, but I suspect, as mentioned before, some routes will close as a result of NOT having the right size aircraft. But MOL being MOL will blame something else for HIS mistake.

LTNman

In fairness, LDY DO want to extend the runway. Thus it's not completely outrageous for FR to plan to use 738s there.

Having a runway that could accommodate a wider variety of aircraft could help them attract competitors to MOL perhaps. It's just that the locals are revolting (last time I was in Derry they were chucking rocks at the peelers) and thus planning is delayed.

Same way airlines are buying A380s but know some judge could block an airport rebuild to accommodate them on environmental grounds - it would still probably cost more to wait and see!

Finally, I'm sure 732s are a bit more of a racket on the ears than the 738s, so maybe they should put up with the extension :D

if Ryanair were to pull out completely, what do you think would happen at LDY? Do you think other operators could be enticed from London? easy from LTN/STN or LGW? bmibaby out of LGW? or what about even bmi or Aer Lingus from Heathrow? - surely the region around LDY (don't know too much about it myself so just assuming) has a decent enough size catchment - and we all knwo how the US and Ireland links are good - maybe this could be an opportunity for a flight in to a hub rather than just lo-co????

LBA faces a similar situation when the -200s are retired. I understand RYR are reticent about using the -800 considering the limited TORA/TODA on RW32/14. Maybe they'll just have to sell around 80% of the seats in order to operate out of LBA. If they can still make money this way then fair enough. Serves 'em right for buying the economy version though :E

no, no, no - no, no, no. I don't know why you think anyone would operate from LDY - LHR, when BA don't operate to Northern Ireland from LHR and bmi go to BHD. Why would Aer Lingus operate?

There is a PSO (Public Service Obligation) service to Dublin which is operated by Aer Arann and which provides point-point travellers and those wishing to connect to long-haul.

As I said earlier I don't see easyJet operating as they go to Belfast and the airports are not too far apart.

In terms of catchment areas, the DfT in their Northern Ireland consultation document estimated within 2 hours of LDY there are 400,000 people, compared to around 1.3 million around BFS or BHD.

Perhaps Aer Arann may step in with a LTN service if FR pull out altogether, since they have links with both LTN and LDY.


LTNman

It may seem odd to buy an aircraft with a derated engine which can't operate at all your existing airfields, but if buying this version means that it costs you less in maintenance and other costs and the aircraft can still carry full loads from most of your airfields (including your main bases and key destinations), but can't from some of your other airfields then why not? Particularly if some of those smaller airfields have runway extensions built which allow full loads, and those that don't - well you just pull out and go somewhere else. As I said, MO'L's not slow in spotting an opportunity to save money and not spend money when someone else will instead!

brabazon - I don't think anyone would operate LHR-LDY - I was purely asking others opinions.

As I said I don't know enough about the area to answer it myself, but why couldn't an airline operate to Belfast AND Derry? That would make any airline the strongest presence across the whole of NI? And the amount of pax that FR carry (although most are price driven, granted) can't just go on to Belfast flights when they are full as they are.

Yes - they are close, but then again aren't EDI & GLA? LBA & MAN? they seem to operate with the same routings and don't suffer!!!!

There is no reason why Aer Lingus couldn't operate - they are allowed to fly it - after all aren't FR an Irish carrier???

EI have a few LHR slots and they may decide that they want to remove some DUB ones? There was some rumours going on a while back that they were looking at BFS-LHR.... again, they may not, but isn't one aspect of this forum to at least open subjects for discussion???

DUB based aircraft probably doing the flight. DUB-STN-LDY-STN-DUB. DUB schedules for winter fit in LDY's with 25min turnround at STN. No doubt the release of the STN-LDY peak morning slot will be used for an existing destination or new route out of STN.

................ and I thought it was because they couldn't accept a RIS outside controlled airspace ....................

:hmm:

Vapor

No, it's not PCN otherwise surely the A321 would not get in.