Aer Lingus out of OneWorld...?????
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Aer Lingus out of OneWorld...?????
I hear that Iberia are not at all happy with Aer Lingus starting direct services to new Spanish cities from Dublin / Cork and that BA are also a little miffed about the new Dublin - Prague service, because they were carrying a lot of interlines traffic which did route DUB-LHR-PRG
Will IB * BA look to get EI out of One World..?
Anyone else know anything about this.
Will IB * BA look to get EI out of One World..?
Anyone else know anything about this.
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Cannot imgaine BA would want EI booted out of oneWorld because of one flight operating just 3 times a week. Better to keep EI onside with their valuable feed to all other European and Long haul flights rather than lose itl to the competition. As for IB, kicking EI out of oneWorld would have little consequence as EI would continue with their direct (and popular) services to Spain. Better to keep them onside too and maybe codeshare with EI.
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If BA is unhappy now, wait until Ireland and the US sign an openskies agreement, which may be sooner rather than later.
When that is done Aer Lingus says they will dramatically increase service to the US. What will BA have to say than?
When that is done Aer Lingus says they will dramatically increase service to the US. What will BA have to say than?
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sounds like sh!tstirring to me.
With CX in trouble with SARS, the last thing OneWorld is to be "kicking out" partners, and since EI are not competing on routes BA and IB already serve DIRECTLY, what cause could there be to terminate them?
Regardless of openskies, EI will never serve the breadth of destinations BA does ex LHR, nor do it with the same level of customer service with WW's ryanairising of EI. Thus people like me will continue to fly BA via LHR for some time to come I'd say!
With CX in trouble with SARS, the last thing OneWorld is to be "kicking out" partners, and since EI are not competing on routes BA and IB already serve DIRECTLY, what cause could there be to terminate them?
Regardless of openskies, EI will never serve the breadth of destinations BA does ex LHR, nor do it with the same level of customer service with WW's ryanairising of EI. Thus people like me will continue to fly BA via LHR for some time to come I'd say!
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BA can't simply regard EI simply as a feeder operation for its own services. And as bjghi3 says, if they're upset now, wait until the Open Skies agreement come through . . .
It is strange (if it's correct) that BA would object to this, in that it has always appeared that the reason BA has switched to smaller aircraft on almost all flights (319s/320s on s/h, 777 on long) is to focus on London rather than being reliant on interlines. Aer Lingus has, traditionally, had pretty poor European connections, but as it rearranges itself, this can only grow and one hopes that the extension of services won't be confined to Europe.
From EI's own viewpoint, it surely makes more sense to fly to these destinations itself, rather than interlining pax, which results in a lower yield. EI is actually reducing the number of 321s its flying to LHR, as more of these are used on flights to AGP, AMS, etc. And as it develops more routes and this reliance on LHR as a connecting hub is reduced, surely this will continue.
It is strange (if it's correct) that BA would object to this, in that it has always appeared that the reason BA has switched to smaller aircraft on almost all flights (319s/320s on s/h, 777 on long) is to focus on London rather than being reliant on interlines. Aer Lingus has, traditionally, had pretty poor European connections, but as it rearranges itself, this can only grow and one hopes that the extension of services won't be confined to Europe.
From EI's own viewpoint, it surely makes more sense to fly to these destinations itself, rather than interlining pax, which results in a lower yield. EI is actually reducing the number of 321s its flying to LHR, as more of these are used on flights to AGP, AMS, etc. And as it develops more routes and this reliance on LHR as a connecting hub is reduced, surely this will continue.
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Interesting since I've been hearing rumours about this from inside EI but more along the lines that they *want* out since they aren't getting the benefits from Oneworld they feel they should.
Kind of a little player in a big boys alliance feeling with little weight given to the direction EI now sees itself going (ie increased expansion on more european routes with less and less emphasis on interlining through LHR).
The suggestion was put that Star may in fact be a much better fit for EI in the future. The could dominate the lucrative DUB-LHR route with BMI and (esp once the stopover goes) work very well with US and AC on the T/A routes.
Makes a lot of sense to me on a lot of levels. EI and BMI together could do a lot of damage to BA for UK/Ireland-US traffic once proper bi-laterals were sorted.
Interline east could work very well with SAS and LH through CPH and FRA and EI would be free to expand the 'sun' routes to the med without stepping on anyone's toes.
Tough shift to make but while EI's size means switching alliances wouldn't make much impact to Oneworlds bottom line the PR would be negative.
Mind you can't see it happening very soon as the big issues at the moment are future route expansion (stopover? BKK/DXB?)
fleet renewal (737-800 anyone?) and privitisation.
Once the latter happens in particular I would put money on it happening very fast though.
Interested to hear others opinions!
Kind of a little player in a big boys alliance feeling with little weight given to the direction EI now sees itself going (ie increased expansion on more european routes with less and less emphasis on interlining through LHR).
The suggestion was put that Star may in fact be a much better fit for EI in the future. The could dominate the lucrative DUB-LHR route with BMI and (esp once the stopover goes) work very well with US and AC on the T/A routes.
Makes a lot of sense to me on a lot of levels. EI and BMI together could do a lot of damage to BA for UK/Ireland-US traffic once proper bi-laterals were sorted.
Interline east could work very well with SAS and LH through CPH and FRA and EI would be free to expand the 'sun' routes to the med without stepping on anyone's toes.
Tough shift to make but while EI's size means switching alliances wouldn't make much impact to Oneworlds bottom line the PR would be negative.
Mind you can't see it happening very soon as the big issues at the moment are future route expansion (stopover? BKK/DXB?)
fleet renewal (737-800 anyone?) and privitisation.
Once the latter happens in particular I would put money on it happening very fast though.
Interested to hear others opinions!
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I know EI is straining at the leash, waiting for the US bilateral to be changed, to allow westward expansion, but I was interested in what Bluehair had to say about eastward expansion.
I would have expected EK to be pretty interest in DXB-DUB, feeding into its expanding Australian network. Is this likely to be a codeshare with EI?
Looking further east, has BKK been mentioned as a possibility; they'd certainly have the advantage of linking with other oneworld airlines (which kind of gets us back to square one!), CX (to HK), AY (HK/SIN) and Qantas. There's actually only 18 miles in the difference between CPT/BKK-DUB, but I wonder if the 332 could cope with the headwinds on the return sector.
Incidentally, Airbus is presumably well aware of EI's route ambitions; I wonder if an attractive deal on future 332 pricing might swing the long expected mid-size order in their favour?
I would have expected EK to be pretty interest in DXB-DUB, feeding into its expanding Australian network. Is this likely to be a codeshare with EI?
Looking further east, has BKK been mentioned as a possibility; they'd certainly have the advantage of linking with other oneworld airlines (which kind of gets us back to square one!), CX (to HK), AY (HK/SIN) and Qantas. There's actually only 18 miles in the difference between CPT/BKK-DUB, but I wonder if the 332 could cope with the headwinds on the return sector.
Incidentally, Airbus is presumably well aware of EI's route ambitions; I wonder if an attractive deal on future 332 pricing might swing the long expected mid-size order in their favour?
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I think most of the oneWorld partners have their focus on their own backyards rather than pushing for more integration..
As MarkD says, there are still quite a number of european destinations where EI don't overlap BA. (Scandinavia anyone?)
Why would EI leave oneWorld? Really?
Why when by the time the bilateral goes, AA will feed into DUB to feed into EI's expanding european network, instead of having to look for more slots into and out of LHR..
Why when EI will codeshare westbound with BA out of LHR?
BKK: unlikely
DXB: possible, as is the codeshare with EK
CPT: watch this space...
As MarkD says, there are still quite a number of european destinations where EI don't overlap BA. (Scandinavia anyone?)
Why would EI leave oneWorld? Really?
Why when by the time the bilateral goes, AA will feed into DUB to feed into EI's expanding european network, instead of having to look for more slots into and out of LHR..
Why when EI will codeshare westbound with BA out of LHR?
BKK: unlikely
DXB: possible, as is the codeshare with EK
CPT: watch this space...
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there has been talk 'bout this, but more to the issue of backtracking to no formalised alliance. such as with kl to ams and sn to bru, much like ek do and also vs, picking and choosing as they wish and as the market requires. I don't think they like the idea of star and the issue of the big boys league is far more evident there then in oneworld. Lh/ua/sk are believed to be wanting to much out of the others.
I also think that the way that ei is heading is away from the gilt edged approach that oneworld seems to promote. Ba has managed , thus far, to promote its premiums while realistically reducing its s/h costs, aa similar, while ei has gone all out for a general 'lowering of standards'. more bucket'n' spade routes, it works for them but perhaps not to the oneworld image.
I also think that LA might feel the same way, although AA has a close relationship with them with cooperation between the 2. There is a more visible 2 way relationship with them as opposed to ei/ba which apears a bit worker/queen bee type of realtionship. also significant that ba has decided to open its own ticket desk in dublin, albeit with ei staff.
I also think that the way that ei is heading is away from the gilt edged approach that oneworld seems to promote. Ba has managed , thus far, to promote its premiums while realistically reducing its s/h costs, aa similar, while ei has gone all out for a general 'lowering of standards'. more bucket'n' spade routes, it works for them but perhaps not to the oneworld image.
I also think that LA might feel the same way, although AA has a close relationship with them with cooperation between the 2. There is a more visible 2 way relationship with them as opposed to ei/ba which apears a bit worker/queen bee type of realtionship. also significant that ba has decided to open its own ticket desk in dublin, albeit with ei staff.
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EI-V-IB
MarkD
"EI are not competing on routes BA and IB already serve DIRECTLY, what cause could there be to terminate them?"
What about DUB-BCN and DUB-MAD..??
and
DUB-LGW
"EI are not competing on routes BA and IB already serve DIRECTLY, what cause could there be to terminate them?"
What about DUB-BCN and DUB-MAD..??
and
DUB-LGW
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On the CPT issue, there was mention in "Just Planes Videos" News (which is usually pretty accurate), that . . .
Aer Lingus (May08, 2003)
The Irish government is hoping that Aer Lingus will launch service from Dublin to Cape Town before the end of this year.
There's nothing about this in the Irish media, but this and Minuteman's comments seem to suggest that movements are already being made. Will they be looking for a 332 with bunks, or will it be sufficient to agree on more layovers in CPT?
Good news anyway and here's hoping they pull it off this year.
Aer Lingus (May08, 2003)
The Irish government is hoping that Aer Lingus will launch service from Dublin to Cape Town before the end of this year.
There's nothing about this in the Irish media, but this and Minuteman's comments seem to suggest that movements are already being made. Will they be looking for a 332 with bunks, or will it be sufficient to agree on more layovers in CPT?
Good news anyway and here's hoping they pull it off this year.
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The LGW service is a BA codeshare. BA must like it that way because EI doesn't operate to LGW from anywhere else and it would be probably cheaper to let BA do it than maintain staff etc. at LGW for a single destination. Similarly watch for BA taking over the DUB-LCY when they start RJs there and EI let their's go.
Dunno what IB think about the Spanish routes.
The LGW service is a BA codeshare. BA must like it that way because EI doesn't operate to LGW from anywhere else and it would be probably cheaper to let BA do it than maintain staff etc. at LGW for a single destination. Similarly watch for BA taking over the DUB-LCY when they start RJs there and EI let their's go.
Dunno what IB think about the Spanish routes.
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Do you really think that IB or BA are really bothered about EI's new route expansions.
Sure they compete now to MAD and BCN and via lon to PRG, but come on, these are a drop in the ocean for these big carriers.
Hardly something that would be brought up at boardroom level to discuss to kick EI out of oneworld.
I think if EI were to leave oneworld it would be because THEY want to.
Anyway they are turning into a loCo so being in an alliance is less inportant now. Point to point leisure routes and all that.
Sure they compete now to MAD and BCN and via lon to PRG, but come on, these are a drop in the ocean for these big carriers.
Hardly something that would be brought up at boardroom level to discuss to kick EI out of oneworld.
I think if EI were to leave oneworld it would be because THEY want to.
Anyway they are turning into a loCo so being in an alliance is less inportant now. Point to point leisure routes and all that.
