Ecojet? The smell of kerosene no longer?
If ZeroAvia is the supplier of the propulsion system, Mr Vince is telling porkies. According to them, they will be flight testing a Q400 in Q3 or Q4 2024. But they intend to offer the first application of that engine (Z2000) in an ATR 42/72 or Dash 8-300 in 2027.
Sounds like he'll be burning kerosene for a while longer than he says.
Sounds like he'll be burning kerosene for a while longer than he says.
Last edited by LGS6753; 20th Jul 2023 at 16:22.
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Why would they bear any of the risk, that's not what they do? They provide airline management expertise to companies. Better to have that than some ex cabin-crew member with his ex-baggage handler mate thinking they can start an airline, no?
My point was that their involvement doesn't actually lend the project any more credibility. If it fails, it will be due to circumstances beyond AMG's control - in particular the regulatory and/or technological issues already referred to.
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It is credible in that it’s small-scale and one initial route proposed, rather than the usual fanfare of multiple A380s. And that Mr Vince has the financial resources to give it a go.
But the 'one initial route' is EDI-SOU on a Twin Otter using unproven technlogy in a regulatory framework that doesn't exist - so more credible than the A380 mob, but not by much.
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Twotter EDI-SOU
Twotter could do it probably in 2hr20mins, with no toilet or cabin service. Toilet can be retrofitted at the cost of 2 seats. EDI-SOU with 17 seats doesn't scream profit. Current projections for on board Hydrogen storage at -253 degs C would be 15-25% of the cabin (including bulk OOG storage area). Questionable.
Now in the news again - buying 70 motors from ZeroAvia to retrofit on their proposed 19 seater fleet.
https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-england-...e-67559550.amp
https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-england-...e-67559550.amp
Bio derived turbine fuel is kerosene though isn't it?
Why has there not been a ban on new domestic cars with engines larger than, say, 2,000cc ?
Why are trains getting ever more expensive, and why are there very few bus services outside our cities and towns?
Why do fossil fuel producers attend the COP talks? Would they be there to lobby the ministers by any chance?
If the climate really is in trouble, how come there are all these contradictions ?
If the climate really is in trouble, how come there are all these contradictions ?
$7 Trillion in 2022. See this attached article and then - as they say - follow the money!
https://www.imf.org/en/Topics/climat...ergy-subsidies
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From Wikipedia:
Info seems to have come from their Linked In site
On 9 December 2023, it was reported that Ecojet had made further appointments to its management team. These appointments included Deon van Rensburg as its Head of Finance, Ben Leon as its Chief Commercial Officer and Augusto Ponte as an advisor to the Board of Directors. Furthermore, it was officially confirmed that Brent Smith is to take on the role of Chief Executive Officer.
An interesting stand-off developing between the Ecojet team and the new CEO of Loganair who used to work with most of them either at Flybe or Specialist Aviation then!
Given the relative lack of discussion, I'm unsure if I'm the only one who doesn't get this whole Ecojet thing though. Apart from the obvious point that it's neither a "jet" nor "eco" in its current form - and won't be for quite some time to come - they appear to have a team with a higher credibility rating than most start-ups (although that's intended as an observation and not a compliment). But they are aiming to fly ATR72s in a market where getting aircraft deliveries and spares is proving hugely difficult for many long-established operators (Aurigny and Loganair for two obvious examples at present). Trying to recruit crews in a market where regional airlines are struggling to hang on to those they have (Eastern and Loganair for two more examples).
In terms of routes, Edinburgh-Southampton has been the only public statement. If both Edinburgh and Southampton are minded to give out commercial deals for a second operator to join that route, it would surely be to easyJet and not Ecojet? Even if Ecojet does get started on the route, it would surely pave the way with the airports to offer deals to easyJet to replicate its presence on GLA-SOU with a daily EDI-SOU, at which point the rationale of their presence disappears.
It just feels like they are trying to defy gravity with the obvious crewing and aircraft issues affecting other airlines so clearly, and the route plan is based on no reaction to their entry to the market. If you're aiming to shake things up, you need to look at how other operators will react to that "shake" and factor that into your plans.
So for now, although I think these people have a team capable of putting an aircraft into the air and becoming an airline, I'm less than convinced that they can turn that airline into a business. I'll wait for someone to drop by and tell me I've got it all wrong.....
Given the relative lack of discussion, I'm unsure if I'm the only one who doesn't get this whole Ecojet thing though. Apart from the obvious point that it's neither a "jet" nor "eco" in its current form - and won't be for quite some time to come - they appear to have a team with a higher credibility rating than most start-ups (although that's intended as an observation and not a compliment). But they are aiming to fly ATR72s in a market where getting aircraft deliveries and spares is proving hugely difficult for many long-established operators (Aurigny and Loganair for two obvious examples at present). Trying to recruit crews in a market where regional airlines are struggling to hang on to those they have (Eastern and Loganair for two more examples).
In terms of routes, Edinburgh-Southampton has been the only public statement. If both Edinburgh and Southampton are minded to give out commercial deals for a second operator to join that route, it would surely be to easyJet and not Ecojet? Even if Ecojet does get started on the route, it would surely pave the way with the airports to offer deals to easyJet to replicate its presence on GLA-SOU with a daily EDI-SOU, at which point the rationale of their presence disappears.
It just feels like they are trying to defy gravity with the obvious crewing and aircraft issues affecting other airlines so clearly, and the route plan is based on no reaction to their entry to the market. If you're aiming to shake things up, you need to look at how other operators will react to that "shake" and factor that into your plans.
So for now, although I think these people have a team capable of putting an aircraft into the air and becoming an airline, I'm less than convinced that they can turn that airline into a business. I'll wait for someone to drop by and tell me I've got it all wrong.....
In terms of routes, Edinburgh-Southampton has been the only public statement. If both Edinburgh and Southampton are minded to give out commercial deals for a second operator to join that route, it would surely be to easyJet and not Ecojet? Even if Ecojet does get started on the route, it would surely pave the way with the airports to offer deals to easyJet to replicate its presence on GLA-SOU with a daily EDI-SOU, at which point the rationale of their presence disappears.
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I think the other points made by Flightrider are fairly accurate and probably reflect the thinking of most on here. However I would think it likely that EDI-SOU was just an indicative regional route for the news media - after that comment was made, easyJet have of course set up a (minimal) presence at SOU which may indeed deter any new operators on such routes although I would think otherwise.
The hydrogen powered Twin Otters are still slated for 2025 according to this press release but I don't see how they will be able to viably compete with Loganair on a network within Scotland, which one presumes is the intention with an EDI base.
The hydrogen powered Twin Otters are still slated for 2025 according to this press release but I don't see how they will be able to viably compete with Loganair on a network within Scotland, which one presumes is the intention with an EDI base.
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The hydrogen powered Twin Otters are still slated for 2025 according to this press release but I don't see how they will be able to viably compete with Loganair on a network within Scotland, which one presumes is the intention with an EDI base.
I do agree with your view about EDI as a base and Flightrider's earlier point about any commercial deal for a second operator to join onto the EDI-SOU route surely being granted to easyJet and not Ecojet.
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I think there's a lot of hype, PR & spin being put out about hydrogen-powered flight at the moment. Don't get me wrong, I think it'll definitely happen at some point and I think it's the way the industry should look to go after SAFs, however any notion of having hydrogen-powered 'Twotters' flying in 2025 is frankly for the birds. Remember, it's not just about having/operating the aircraft - airports will also need to have the relevant infrastructure in place too.
I do agree with your view about EDI as a base and Flightrider's earlier point about any commercial deal for a second operator to join onto the EDI-SOU route surely being granted to easyJet and not Ecojet.
I do agree with your view about EDI as a base and Flightrider's earlier point about any commercial deal for a second operator to join onto the EDI-SOU route surely being granted to easyJet and not Ecojet.
An airport cannot turn an airline away unless there are objective capacity constraints (e.g. no slots available). But it can exercise a very considerable degree of latitude over the commercial terms it offers to any airline wishing to use the airport, which can have almost the same effect.
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An airport cannot turn an airline away unless there are objective capacity constraints (e.g. no slots available). But it can exercise a very considerable degree of latitude over the commercial terms it offers to any airline wishing to use the airport, which can have almost the same effect.