Ecojet? The smell of kerosene no longer?
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Joined: Oct 2007
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From: Just north of Chester, UK.
Ecojet? The smell of kerosene no longer?
https://www.theguardian.com/business...ectric-airline
I'm sure there are many people here who can give a considered, professional view of this; I have no idea but he's certainly been successful with Ecotricity.
On the other hand, I'm not sure a Twotter is ideal for a SOU-EDI service!
I'm sure there are many people here who can give a considered, professional view of this; I have no idea but he's certainly been successful with Ecotricity.
On the other hand, I'm not sure a Twotter is ideal for a SOU-EDI service!
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From: Northumberland
Joined: Aug 2009
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From: BMA
Joined: Sep 2012
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From: UK
I heard him talking about this airline on talksport radio today. Not sure he mentioned hydrogen once, just that it was going to be electric, I suppose that sounds greener. But he also made it sound so simple, “just take the old combustion engines off and put the new ones on”, but where would all the hydrogen go surely it would be a huge job to retrofit. I thought hydrogen might be the next big fuel for cars which hasn’t happened yet, so hopefully he has some good success proving the concept
Joined: Jul 2007
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From: Europe
https://www.theguardian.com/business...ectric-airline
I'm sure there are many people here who can give a considered, professional view of this; I have no idea but he's certainly been successful with Ecotricity.
On the other hand, I'm not sure a Twotter is ideal for a SOU-EDI service!
I'm sure there are many people here who can give a considered, professional view of this; I have no idea but he's certainly been successful with Ecotricity.
On the other hand, I'm not sure a Twotter is ideal for a SOU-EDI service!
Joined: Mar 2013
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Likes: 52
From: UK
Joined: Mar 2013
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From: UK
Joined: Jul 2013
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From: Everett, WA
Funny they show a full blown turbofan engine - that will be powered by electricity.
Somehow I'd think you'd want an electric motor if you're plan is to power it with electricity.
Nothing about how or where they plan to store all that H2 - or how they plan to isolate it from the SLF. Any reasonable method of carrying significant amounts of H2 would either be under very high pressure or cryogenic - both of which mean large spherical or cylindrical storage - it's not fitting in the wing or under the floor.
Sounds pretty pie-in-the-sky to me.
Somehow I'd think you'd want an electric motor if you're plan is to power it with electricity.
Nothing about how or where they plan to store all that H2 - or how they plan to isolate it from the SLF. Any reasonable method of carrying significant amounts of H2 would either be under very high pressure or cryogenic - both of which mean large spherical or cylindrical storage - it's not fitting in the wing or under the floor.
Sounds pretty pie-in-the-sky to me.
Joined: May 2009
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From: Southampton, U.K
Interesting...
ZeroAvia have made quite good progress flying their Dornier 228 demo, and I think they have also flown a Dash 8 300, but they are definitely a long way from getting anything certified for the moment. That being said it definitely seems like a more feasible short term option than the battery conversions, and bespoke new EV aircraft designs.
Flying a Twin Otter from Edinburgh to Southampton seems very odd, regardless of the fuel. That must be a >2hr sector length, on an aircraft with no toilet(?) and no cabin service. This will be up against up to 5 daily Loganair flights, taking 1hr 20 on a considerably more comfy and better equipped E145, with cabin service. Choosing a 356mi (great circle) route when the electric aircraft will have an estimated range of 300mi...
Something like Southampton to Leeds may be a better bet - poor train connection, more feasible distance, currently unserved but has sustained high fares on small aircraft in the past (no guarantee of success of course...).
I would love to be proven wrong, but the mismatch of details with the first press release is not confidence inspiring, and seems a little surprising from a person who has extensive experience and some success in industry (albeit other industries).
Flying a Twin Otter from Edinburgh to Southampton seems very odd, regardless of the fuel. That must be a >2hr sector length, on an aircraft with no toilet(?) and no cabin service. This will be up against up to 5 daily Loganair flights, taking 1hr 20 on a considerably more comfy and better equipped E145, with cabin service. Choosing a 356mi (great circle) route when the electric aircraft will have an estimated range of 300mi...
Something like Southampton to Leeds may be a better bet - poor train connection, more feasible distance, currently unserved but has sustained high fares on small aircraft in the past (no guarantee of success of course...).
I would love to be proven wrong, but the mismatch of details with the first press release is not confidence inspiring, and seems a little surprising from a person who has extensive experience and some success in industry (albeit other industries).
Joined: Jul 2002
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From: In the sticks
When Airbus produces an electric equivalent on an Airbus I will take note. Sadly it isn’t going to happen. As the world burns expanding aviation is making it worse. Maybe when there are mass food shortages people will take action.
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From: Chobham
There are quite a raft of regional airliners either being retrofitted with hydrogen fuel-cell-powered electric motors or complete clean-sheet designs under development now, especially in the 19-50+ seat market. However, take for example Universal Hydrogen's retrofitted ATR-72 and a good ten or so seats are replaced with containerised hydrogen tanks, so the revenue per seat mile will be somewhat diminished. Things like the Dornier 328eco are looking good (retains turbine engines but using alternative fuels), Heart Aerospace, Zero Avia and others, but can't imagine certification by 2025 and entry into service immediately thereafter. Also costs will be interesting - leasing an old Dash-8, ATR or Dornier, or perhaps say an old CRJ or EMB-145 is going to be a lot cheaper than anything new and/or expensively retrofitted. It's exciting to see, but perhaps people need to be a little more realistic on timescales?
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From: UK
Dale Vince is one of the main supports of Just Stop Oil, you know, the vicars etc who are blocking the roads around the capital.
So this current pie in the sky idea is about creating an argument / reason to ban oil extraction from the North Sea, rather than any real business case for green aircraft.
You can bet that now its all about sound bites that he and his cohort can shout at the cameras as a distraction to their ridiculous ill conceived plan to cripple parts of the UK economy.
So this current pie in the sky idea is about creating an argument / reason to ban oil extraction from the North Sea, rather than any real business case for green aircraft.
You can bet that now its all about sound bites that he and his cohort can shout at the cameras as a distraction to their ridiculous ill conceived plan to cripple parts of the UK economy.
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From: Everett, WA
There are quite a raft of regional airliners either being retrofitted with hydrogen fuel-cell-powered electric motors or complete clean-sheet designs under development now, especially in the 19-50+ seat market. However, take for example Universal Hydrogen's retrofitted ATR-72 and a good ten or so seats are replaced with containerised hydrogen tanks, so the revenue per seat mile will be somewhat diminished. Things like the Dornier 328eco are looking good (retains turbine engines but using alternative fuels), Heart Aerospace, Zero Avia and others, but can't imagine certification by 2025 and entry into service immediately thereafter. Also costs will be interesting - leasing an old Dash-8, ATR or Dornier, or perhaps say an old CRJ or EMB-145 is going to be a lot cheaper than anything new and/or expensively retrofitted. It's exciting to see, but perhaps people need to be a little more realistic on timescales?
Various methods of creating carbon neutral synthetic kerosene (e.g. biofuels) hold far more long term promise (my personal favorite is using algae as a feedstock for biofuels - raising algae can use existing waste products and takes only a small fraction of the area that corn/soy/etc. based biofuels require). All this stuff with batteries and H2 for anything other than short range is mainly political posturing and/or investment cons.
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From: On the road