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Flybe-V2

Old 13th Apr 2022, 22:45
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Good loads on BHX-BHD on day 1
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Old 13th Apr 2022, 23:03
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Originally Posted by BHX5DME View Post
Good loads on BHX-BHD on day 1
Are you able to provide a comment on loads on day 2 ? I'm guessing that loads on day 1 might be skewed a bit by various people wanting to be on a flight on day 1. Looking at the calendar and allowing for people to be off work to make use of bank holidays, it's not really until about Monday 9 May that we get to a state of full "normality" and likely everyone being at work... !
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Old 13th Apr 2022, 23:25
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Saying this is nothing to do with the old Flybe despite their many statements about bringing a "much loved" brand (loved by whom?!!) back to the skies, is flying in the face of reality. But I've decided that trying to hold the vulture capitalists behind all of this responsible for the damage to the BRAL pension scheme is also flying in the face of reality. They were the largest shareholder when Flybe collapsed and have had the largest secured creditor payout, leaving the pension scheme worse off than they are. I don't think they've actually profited as yet but they're certainly setting out to.

There have been sound decisions made elsewhere to ignore this whole thing and give it enough rope to hang itself. Looking at the choice of routes and the number of fronts on which to fight, there'll be no shortage of rope.

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Old 14th Apr 2022, 07:58
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Originally Posted by Saabdriver1 View Post
Saying this is nothing to do with the old Flybe despite their many statements about bringing a "much loved" brand (loved by whom?!!) back to the skies, is flying in the face of reality. But I've decided that trying to hold the vulture capitalists behind all of this responsible for the damage to the BRAL pension scheme is also flying in the face of reality. They were the largest shareholder when Flybe collapsed and have had the largest secured creditor payout, leaving the pension scheme worse off than they are. I don't think they've actually profited as yet but they're certainly setting out to.

There have been sound decisions made elsewhere to ignore this whole thing and give it enough rope to hang itself. Looking at the choice of routes and the number of fronts on which to fight, there'll be no shortage of rope.
I had assumed from the rumours they would have been offering something more. Same old cabin in the Dash, LMs ATR fleet is a much nicer place to be. No at seat power to set them out, nothing really to show they're different to the rest on the market. Shame. They're picking a fight with every operator in the U.K except for Aurigny and Blue Islands. Odd. But aren't offering any niches to split them out. My money would be spent with Emerald or LM. both operating nice aircraft with modern cabins. (ATR fleet).
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Old 14th Apr 2022, 08:25
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Originally Posted by wanna View Post
Same old cabin in the Dash
That's not correct. Apparently the seats, carpets and lighting have been redone to a much higher standard than before.
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Old 14th Apr 2022, 14:40
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Theyíve redone cabins on the first two (very nicely, so I hear) but apparently the rest are not yet done and may not be done before the aircraft are required in service.
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Old 14th Apr 2022, 18:41
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A nice read

https://www.headforpoints.com/2022/0...ng-flybe-2022/

What has changed at (new) Flybe?

Virtually everything, as it turns out. Whilst the brand and Heathrow Summer slots were retained, a new management team was brought in. It is, in effect, a brand-new startup.
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Old 14th Apr 2022, 19:55
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You just can't let it go can you? 🤣
It is, in effect, the same airline in every other way except for the legal technicality of the new AOC. Same staff, branding, routes, aeroplanes, staff, routes, strategy and positioning. Effectively, they just legally reneged on their debts.
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Old 14th Apr 2022, 20:06
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Originally Posted by southamptonavgeek View Post
That's not correct. Apparently the seats, carpets and lighting have been redone to a much higher standard than before.
Having seen the cabins its the SAME just refreshed. So the same style seats, the same drag carpet and limited attempt at mood lighting, although the purple is gone. Why they didn't invest in a modern cabin like those from the new ATRs I cant understand, it would have set them apart. Shame.
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Old 15th Apr 2022, 07:03
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Originally Posted by airsouthwest View Post
As an engineering having previously worked for FAS, I would much rather Flybe a 15 year old Dash 8 than any ATR product having a "fancy" interior is nothing when the build quality & design is so poor, especially as the parent company is Airbus.
Strange comment in my opinion. I worked with ATRs for years and they were (and still are) fantastic, reliable, well built money making machines.
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Old 15th Apr 2022, 07:04
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Firstly, as some are quite passionate about it on here, despite my predictions, I hope flybe succeeds.
But, I believe its going to be a 50/50 prospect at best. Rising cost of living, changes to how people work, fuel costs and regional competition, are no doubt going to make it tricky to make profits/sell tickets in the medium/long term.
I think someone said a few posts back that the loads were good. That's great but on two aircraft!! Not enough to sustain an airline. The loads should be full and tickets sold out to give an indication of success. But without the actual load figures its hard to predict and I assume they have more aircraft to come.
Anyway, time and financial updates from the company will tell.
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Old 15th Apr 2022, 07:23
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Originally Posted by airsouthwest View Post
As an engineering having previously worked for FAS, I would much rather Flybe a 15 year old Dash 8 than any ATR product having a "fancy" interior is nothing when the build quality & design is so poor, especially as the parent company is Airbus.
Well the airlines certainly keep ordering the new ATR product compared to the Dash 8 order book.
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Old 15th Apr 2022, 07:47
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Originally Posted by airsouthwest View Post
As an engineering having previously worked for FAS, I would much rather Flybe a 15 year old Dash 8 than any ATR product having a "fancy" interior is nothing when the build quality & design is so poor, especially as the parent company is Airbus.
I thought it was fairly common knowledge amongst the Exeter circles the reason that certain batches of Dash 8s having such bad tech issues were down to the quality control in the manufacturing process by DeHavilland and later Bombardier rather than Flybe engineering resources (even up until the end). Regardless of feelings on either TP, both meet a standard and are then licensed by the relevant authorities and maintained to very high part 145 standards. A cabin is a cabin, but when you take into account that the traveling pax dont really care whether its a Dash or ATR... im surprised that the cabin wasn't made to be more modern with little extras like at seat power, slimline modern seats etc etc, matching LM / Emerald and going one up. So far ive not seen anything that sets them apart from the competition, LM and Emerald certainly offer a niche, Easyjet and BA offer brand awareness and fill the gaps. Im just surprised, but as people have said the CEO is experienced so should know what hes doing... But the midlands and NI aren't the USA.
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Old 15th Apr 2022, 09:47
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Originally Posted by Skipness One Foxtrot View Post
You just can't let it go can you? 🤣
It is, in effect, the same airline in every other way except for the legal technicality of the new AOC. Same staff, branding, routes, aeroplanes, staff, routes, strategy and positioning. Effectively, they just legally reneged on their debts.
Sorry but I simply donít buy the fact that itís the same staff. The CEO, COO, CCO and CTO are all new into the business. Sure there will be some operational staff who chose to seek new employment with the business but surely thatís no surprise, given the airports served. The board of Flybe is also new.
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Old 15th Apr 2022, 10:02
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Originally Posted by JobsaGoodun View Post
Sorry but I simply donít buy the fact that itís the same staff. The CEO, COO, CCO and CTO are all new into the business. Sure there will be some operational staff who chose to seek new employment with the business but surely thatís no surprise, given the airports served. The board of Flybe is also new.
I really don't understand why some simply can't accept that; a) it was a totally legal buy out of administration, b) it is a new business, and c) because - for some strange reason, they just chose to use the same trading name for the new business.

I completely understand the frustration with the way in which in UK, among other jurisdictions, it is quite legal for businesses to be bought out of administration with no liability for the debts of the defunct business, and I have been on the wrong end of such transactions during my working life. Really these frustrations (and particularly the Flybe case) should find their way to a business ethics thread within Jet Blast.
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Old 15th Apr 2022, 10:34
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Originally Posted by Skipness One Foxtrot View Post
You just can't let it go can you? 🤣
It is, in effect, the same airline in every other way except for the legal technicality of the new AOC. Same staff, branding, routes, aeroplanes, staff, routes, strategy and positioning. Effectively, they just legally reneged on their debts.
Please take the hint and lets move on. For all our sanities sake this constant repetition on both sides of the debate is just boring.

As for the seats.. average flight time is less than an hour so I think seat power etc are niceties but when cost is taken into account on a start up business they are not commercially sensible.
Most people want a good flight schedule at the right price. Fancy seats for LH yes but regional travel... icing on the cake.

The ATR is a great regional aircraft, not perfect by any means but sales numbers don't lie.
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Old 15th Apr 2022, 12:17
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Key to aircraft choice is surely not aesthetics, but operational capability.

Thereís no question that the ATR is more economical but itís also slower and at a curfewed airport like BHD that makes a difference. By mixing up their network Flybe will be able to get 5 return trips per day from the aircraft if they want where the ATR will likely only achieve 4.

The DH4 also offers a better option on longer routes like BHXAVN. According to GCMap this is 665 miles with a block of 2hrs 20mins. Compare that to Blue Islands ATR on JERIBZ which at 735 miles has a block of 3hrs.

I think Flybe just have a different route network for which there are advantages operating the DH4

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Old 15th Apr 2022, 13:03
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Originally Posted by JobsaGoodun View Post
Key to aircraft choice is surely not aesthetics, but operational capability.

Thereís no question that the ATR is more economical but itís also slower and at a curfewed airport like BHD that makes a difference. By mixing up their network Flybe will be able to get 5 return trips per day from the aircraft if they want where the ATR will likely only achieve 4.

The DH4 also offers a better option on longer routes like BHXAVN. According to GCMap this is 665 miles with a block of 2hrs 20mins. Compare that to Blue Islands ATR on JERIBZ which at 735 miles has a block of 3hrs.

I think Flybe just have a different route network for which there are advantages operating the DH4
The reality is it all comes down to cost, they had rated crews, manuals etc all derived around the Dash and its probably no shock that the leasing companies will have bitten there arms off to place the aircraft. If it was a clean slate Op with no background would they have gone Dash? Maybe, would they have gone ATR? Maybe, would they have gone for any aircraft they thought they could make work, probably. The reality is from a average joe pax perspective an ATR is the same as a Dash is the same as a Fokker. Hence my surprise that they didn't make the cabins nicer, I would choose to fly in the new easyjet cabin over BA, I would also choose to fly in the LM / Emerald Cabin over the old style Dash... IF the price was right and they were going in the direction I needed.
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Old 15th Apr 2022, 13:03
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The administration of FBE realisations is extended until 2024. Part of the deal for the sale was that new Flybe would make further contributions to EY depending on profitability
We will never know the potential amounts to be paid because' understandably that is confidential. It's all out in the public domain for pitys sake
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Old 15th Apr 2022, 13:15
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Originally Posted by JobsaGoodun View Post
Sorry but I simply donít buy the fact that itís the same staff. The CEO, COO, CCO and CTO are all new into the business. Sure there will be some operational staff who chose to seek new employment with the business but surely thatís no surprise, given the airports served. The board of Flybe is also new.
Hear hear and thank you. I knew that but did not post because i am rapidly losing patience with this argument. For however long it lasts it's brought much needed employment to people.
Old Fltbee was a basket case into which Cyrus Stobart and Virgin pumped £100,000,000 and still mega millions would have been needed to save it

Last edited by bean; 15th Apr 2022 at 15:17.
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