Flybe-V2
Joined: Sep 2008
Posts: 5,691
Likes: 24
From: Blighty
Are you able to provide a comment on loads on day 2 ? I'm guessing that loads on day 1 might be skewed a bit by various people wanting to be on a flight on day 1. Looking at the calendar and allowing for people to be off work to make use of bank holidays, it's not really until about Monday 9 May that we get to a state of full "normality" and likely everyone being at work... !
Joined: Aug 2019
Posts: 179
Likes: 28
From: Glasgow
Saying this is nothing to do with the old Flybe despite their many statements about bringing a "much loved" brand (loved by whom?!!) back to the skies, is flying in the face of reality. But I've decided that trying to hold the vulture capitalists behind all of this responsible for the damage to the BRAL pension scheme is also flying in the face of reality. They were the largest shareholder when Flybe collapsed and have had the largest secured creditor payout, leaving the pension scheme worse off than they are. I don't think they've actually profited as yet but they're certainly setting out to.
There have been sound decisions made elsewhere to ignore this whole thing and give it enough rope to hang itself. Looking at the choice of routes and the number of fronts on which to fight, there'll be no shortage of rope.
There have been sound decisions made elsewhere to ignore this whole thing and give it enough rope to hang itself. Looking at the choice of routes and the number of fronts on which to fight, there'll be no shortage of rope.
Joined: Sep 2017
Posts: 84
Likes: 2
From: United Kingdom
Saying this is nothing to do with the old Flybe despite their many statements about bringing a "much loved" brand (loved by whom?!!) back to the skies, is flying in the face of reality. But I've decided that trying to hold the vulture capitalists behind all of this responsible for the damage to the BRAL pension scheme is also flying in the face of reality. They were the largest shareholder when Flybe collapsed and have had the largest secured creditor payout, leaving the pension scheme worse off than they are. I don't think they've actually profited as yet but they're certainly setting out to.
There have been sound decisions made elsewhere to ignore this whole thing and give it enough rope to hang itself. Looking at the choice of routes and the number of fronts on which to fight, there'll be no shortage of rope.
There have been sound decisions made elsewhere to ignore this whole thing and give it enough rope to hang itself. Looking at the choice of routes and the number of fronts on which to fight, there'll be no shortage of rope.
Joined: Jun 2008
Posts: 134
Likes: 3
From: Dark side of the Moon
A nice read
https://www.headforpoints.com/2022/0...ng-flybe-2022/
https://www.headforpoints.com/2022/0...ng-flybe-2022/
What has changed at (new) Flybe?
Virtually everything, as it turns out. Whilst the brand and Heathrow Summer slots were retained, a new management team was brought in. It is, in effect, a brand-new startup.
Joined: Dec 2011
Posts: 2,265
Likes: 297
From: London
You just can't let it go can you? 🤣
It is, in effect, the same airline in every other way except for the legal technicality of the new AOC. Same staff, branding, routes, aeroplanes, staff, routes, strategy and positioning. Effectively, they just legally reneged on their debts.
It is, in effect, the same airline in every other way except for the legal technicality of the new AOC. Same staff, branding, routes, aeroplanes, staff, routes, strategy and positioning. Effectively, they just legally reneged on their debts.
Joined: Sep 2017
Posts: 84
Likes: 2
From: United Kingdom
Having seen the cabins its the SAME just refreshed. So the same style seats, the same drag carpet and limited attempt at mood lighting, although the purple is gone. Why they didn't invest in a modern cabin like those from the new ATRs I cant understand, it would have set them apart. Shame.
Joined: Nov 2000
Aviation Qualifications: Non-Aircrew
Posts: 968
Likes: 164
From: London, UK
Strange comment in my opinion. I worked with ATRs for years and they were (and still are) fantastic, reliable, well built money making machines.
Joined: Mar 2022
Posts: 24
Likes: 3
From: arctic
Firstly, as some are quite passionate about it on here, despite my predictions, I hope flybe succeeds.
But, I believe its going to be a 50/50 prospect at best. Rising cost of living, changes to how people work, fuel costs and regional competition, are no doubt going to make it tricky to make profits/sell tickets in the medium/long term.
I think someone said a few posts back that the loads were good. That's great but on two aircraft!! Not enough to sustain an airline. The loads should be full and tickets sold out to give an indication of success. But without the actual load figures its hard to predict and I assume they have more aircraft to come.
Anyway, time and financial updates from the company will tell.
But, I believe its going to be a 50/50 prospect at best. Rising cost of living, changes to how people work, fuel costs and regional competition, are no doubt going to make it tricky to make profits/sell tickets in the medium/long term.
I think someone said a few posts back that the loads were good. That's great but on two aircraft!! Not enough to sustain an airline. The loads should be full and tickets sold out to give an indication of success. But without the actual load figures its hard to predict and I assume they have more aircraft to come.
Anyway, time and financial updates from the company will tell.
Joined: Aug 2007
Posts: 121
Likes: 2
From: ortac
Well the airlines certainly keep ordering the new ATR product compared to the Dash 8 order book.
Joined: Sep 2017
Posts: 84
Likes: 2
From: United Kingdom
I thought it was fairly common knowledge amongst the Exeter circles the reason that certain batches of Dash 8s having such bad tech issues were down to the quality control in the manufacturing process by DeHavilland and later Bombardier rather than Flybe engineering resources (even up until the end). Regardless of feelings on either TP, both meet a standard and are then licensed by the relevant authorities and maintained to very high part 145 standards. A cabin is a cabin, but when you take into account that the traveling pax dont really care whether its a Dash or ATR... im surprised that the cabin wasn't made to be more modern with little extras like at seat power, slimline modern seats etc etc, matching LM / Emerald and going one up. So far ive not seen anything that sets them apart from the competition, LM and Emerald certainly offer a niche, Easyjet and BA offer brand awareness and fill the gaps. Im just surprised, but as people have said the CEO is experienced so should know what hes doing... But the midlands and NI aren't the USA.
Thread Starter
Joined: Oct 2003
Posts: 473
Likes: 2
From: UK
You just can't let it go can you? 🤣
It is, in effect, the same airline in every other way except for the legal technicality of the new AOC. Same staff, branding, routes, aeroplanes, staff, routes, strategy and positioning. Effectively, they just legally reneged on their debts.
It is, in effect, the same airline in every other way except for the legal technicality of the new AOC. Same staff, branding, routes, aeroplanes, staff, routes, strategy and positioning. Effectively, they just legally reneged on their debts.
Guest
Posts: n/a
Sorry but I simply don’t buy the fact that it’s the same staff. The CEO, COO, CCO and CTO are all new into the business. Sure there will be some operational staff who chose to seek new employment with the business but surely that’s no surprise, given the airports served. The board of Flybe is also new.
I completely understand the frustration with the way in which in UK, among other jurisdictions, it is quite legal for businesses to be bought out of administration with no liability for the debts of the defunct business, and I have been on the wrong end of such transactions during my working life. Really these frustrations (and particularly the Flybe case) should find their way to a business ethics thread within Jet Blast.
Joined: Feb 2018
Posts: 134
Likes: 0
From: Aalborg
You just can't let it go can you? 🤣
It is, in effect, the same airline in every other way except for the legal technicality of the new AOC. Same staff, branding, routes, aeroplanes, staff, routes, strategy and positioning. Effectively, they just legally reneged on their debts.
It is, in effect, the same airline in every other way except for the legal technicality of the new AOC. Same staff, branding, routes, aeroplanes, staff, routes, strategy and positioning. Effectively, they just legally reneged on their debts.
As for the seats.. average flight time is less than an hour so I think seat power etc are niceties but when cost is taken into account on a start up business they are not commercially sensible.
Most people want a good flight schedule at the right price. Fancy seats for LH yes but regional travel... icing on the cake.
The ATR is a great regional aircraft, not perfect by any means but sales numbers don't lie.
Thread Starter
Joined: Oct 2003
Posts: 473
Likes: 2
From: UK
Key to aircraft choice is surely not aesthetics, but operational capability.
There’s no question that the ATR is more economical but it’s also slower and at a curfewed airport like BHD that makes a difference. By mixing up their network Flybe will be able to get 5 return trips per day from the aircraft if they want where the ATR will likely only achieve 4.
The DH4 also offers a better option on longer routes like BHXAVN. According to GCMap this is 665 miles with a block of 2hrs 20mins. Compare that to Blue Islands ATR on JERIBZ which at 735 miles has a block of 3hrs.
I think Flybe just have a different route network for which there are advantages operating the DH4
There’s no question that the ATR is more economical but it’s also slower and at a curfewed airport like BHD that makes a difference. By mixing up their network Flybe will be able to get 5 return trips per day from the aircraft if they want where the ATR will likely only achieve 4.
The DH4 also offers a better option on longer routes like BHXAVN. According to GCMap this is 665 miles with a block of 2hrs 20mins. Compare that to Blue Islands ATR on JERIBZ which at 735 miles has a block of 3hrs.
I think Flybe just have a different route network for which there are advantages operating the DH4
Joined: Sep 2017
Posts: 84
Likes: 2
From: United Kingdom
Key to aircraft choice is surely not aesthetics, but operational capability.
There’s no question that the ATR is more economical but it’s also slower and at a curfewed airport like BHD that makes a difference. By mixing up their network Flybe will be able to get 5 return trips per day from the aircraft if they want where the ATR will likely only achieve 4.
The DH4 also offers a better option on longer routes like BHXAVN. According to GCMap this is 665 miles with a block of 2hrs 20mins. Compare that to Blue Islands ATR on JERIBZ which at 735 miles has a block of 3hrs.
I think Flybe just have a different route network for which there are advantages operating the DH4
There’s no question that the ATR is more economical but it’s also slower and at a curfewed airport like BHD that makes a difference. By mixing up their network Flybe will be able to get 5 return trips per day from the aircraft if they want where the ATR will likely only achieve 4.
The DH4 also offers a better option on longer routes like BHXAVN. According to GCMap this is 665 miles with a block of 2hrs 20mins. Compare that to Blue Islands ATR on JERIBZ which at 735 miles has a block of 3hrs.
I think Flybe just have a different route network for which there are advantages operating the DH4
Joined: Jun 2001
Posts: 867
Likes: 131
From: britain
The administration of FBE realisations is extended until 2024. Part of the deal for the sale was that new Flybe would make further contributions to EY depending on profitability
We will never know the potential amounts to be paid because' understandably that is confidential. It's all out in the public domain for pitys sake
We will never know the potential amounts to be paid because' understandably that is confidential. It's all out in the public domain for pitys sake
Joined: Jun 2001
Posts: 867
Likes: 131
From: britain
Sorry but I simply don’t buy the fact that it’s the same staff. The CEO, COO, CCO and CTO are all new into the business. Sure there will be some operational staff who chose to seek new employment with the business but surely that’s no surprise, given the airports served. The board of Flybe is also new.
Old Fltbee was a basket case into which Cyrus Stobart and Virgin pumped £100,000,000 and still mega millions would have been needed to save it
Last edited by bean; 15th April 2022 at 15:17.