British Airways-2
Joined: Feb 2001
Posts: 6,726
Likes: 103
From: The Winchester
davidjohnson6
As you say there was a lot of demand for the Premium product and it continued until quite recently.. 744s, 777s and then 787s continued to serve on the route (but as I recall it perhaps not on a daily basis) until the start of the Covid epidemic..
As you say there was a lot of demand for the Premium product and it continued until quite recently.. 744s, 777s and then 787s continued to serve on the route (but as I recall it perhaps not on a daily basis) until the start of the Covid epidemic..
Joined: Dec 2011
Posts: 1,014
Likes: 38
From: UK
Wouldn't be totally unusual on the sunshine routes. TUI very often used to operate the likes of the 787 to places like Mahon in the summer; Monarch back in the day used to operate the A330s down to places like PMI - both airlines operating these widebodies when their long haul winter routes were obviously not operating.
Joined: Feb 2002
Aviation Qualifications: AME
Posts: 4,166
Likes: 1,096
From: UK
spacedog
True, BA closed a load of line maintenance bases a few years ago and farmed it out to various 3rd party MROs.
I'm sure there's plenty of currently furloughed LAEs who would be delighted with a few flying spanner away days. 😁
True, BA closed a load of line maintenance bases a few years ago and farmed it out to various 3rd party MROs.
I'm sure there's plenty of currently furloughed LAEs who would be delighted with a few flying spanner away days. 😁
Joined: Nov 2000
Aviation Qualifications: ATPL
Posts: 279
Likes: 135
From: South East
The main issue for BA here is the cabin configurations on their wide bodies are pretty premium heavy, which means that they really don’t have huge capacities. People going for Palma aren’t going to pay a huge premium for a flat bed, as they may do for a 12 hour flight to Singapore.
Even TUI normally remove the premium economy cabins from their dedicated short haul 787s for the summer, with other flights being operated between long haul rotations. But there is a huge difference in seat coats between an all economy layout for a wide body on short haul and one configured for long haul flights.
BA’s A320s seat a maximum of 177 or 180 passengers, and the A321s seat up to 218 or 220, obviously with big Club cabins those numbers reduce substantially.
In BA configuration the 787-8 seats only 194, with 60 being premium seats and 154 economy. The 787-9 has 89 premium seats and only 127 economy. Neither of those would justify the massive hike in operating costs on a short haul route. By comparison TUI’s 787-8 seats 300, or 325 without a premium cabin, and the 787-9 seats 345.
I think the only BA layout that could ever make sense would be the new 3 Class LGW 777... C32W48Y252. It’s likely that the Club cabin would stretch into WTP leaving 252 economy seats. But you’d have to weigh that capacity against the huge hike in fuel, handling, landing, ATC and crew costs, no point putting on a much bigger aircraft to fill it with £39 fares. In more recent years in Europe most airlines have preferred to send 2 narrowbodies for peak capacity rather than have the relative inflexibility of short haul widebodies that they will struggle to fill in winter.
Even TUI normally remove the premium economy cabins from their dedicated short haul 787s for the summer, with other flights being operated between long haul rotations. But there is a huge difference in seat coats between an all economy layout for a wide body on short haul and one configured for long haul flights.
BA’s A320s seat a maximum of 177 or 180 passengers, and the A321s seat up to 218 or 220, obviously with big Club cabins those numbers reduce substantially.
In BA configuration the 787-8 seats only 194, with 60 being premium seats and 154 economy. The 787-9 has 89 premium seats and only 127 economy. Neither of those would justify the massive hike in operating costs on a short haul route. By comparison TUI’s 787-8 seats 300, or 325 without a premium cabin, and the 787-9 seats 345.
I think the only BA layout that could ever make sense would be the new 3 Class LGW 777... C32W48Y252. It’s likely that the Club cabin would stretch into WTP leaving 252 economy seats. But you’d have to weigh that capacity against the huge hike in fuel, handling, landing, ATC and crew costs, no point putting on a much bigger aircraft to fill it with £39 fares. In more recent years in Europe most airlines have preferred to send 2 narrowbodies for peak capacity rather than have the relative inflexibility of short haul widebodies that they will struggle to fill in winter.
Joined: Aug 2014
Posts: 780
Likes: 78
From: Outer London
There was a short-lived Irish registered Tristar operator called TBG I think and that one didn’t look in the best condition. And another one called something like Nordic European who were Scandinavian.
I flew Air Ops to Ibiza on a Tristar but that was in good condition at least internally, it was former Hawaiian and inside was untouched including Business. Some lucky so and so’s had a very luxurious ride
I flew Air Ops to Ibiza on a Tristar but that was in good condition at least internally, it was former Hawaiian and inside was untouched including Business. Some lucky so and so’s had a very luxurious ride
Joined: Jan 2004
Posts: 794
Likes: 21
From: England
I remember Air Ops and Peach Air Tristars at Gatwick in mid to late 90's. The Peach aircraft I believe were leased from Air Atlanta Iceland with Icelandic registrations. They also operated two B737-200s G-BAZH and G-BFVB which previously were Ambassador Airways and Britannia Airways. When Peach folded the Tristars were leased or acquired by Caledonian Airways.
The Air Ops Tristars and A300s were all Swedish registered. One of their Tristars I believe ended up with Caledonian Airways with the registration G-CEAP but was never re-painted to the Caledonian livery. Because of the registration It was always referred to as "going cheap". The aircraft ended it's days at Stansted for ground handling training and was ultimately scrapped there.
The Air Ops Tristars and A300s were all Swedish registered. One of their Tristars I believe ended up with Caledonian Airways with the registration G-CEAP but was never re-painted to the Caledonian livery. Because of the registration It was always referred to as "going cheap". The aircraft ended it's days at Stansted for ground handling training and was ultimately scrapped there.
Joined: Jun 2000
Posts: 2,877
Likes: 82
From: UK
Flew back from ACE on one of the Air Atlanta ones. Loved the L1011 but that aircraft was a heap.
Flew out in G-CEAP which wasn't a lot better. I remember a delay to departure as the front hold door had to wound closed.
Flew out in G-CEAP which wasn't a lot better. I remember a delay to departure as the front hold door had to wound closed.
Last edited by Wycombe; 16th March 2021 at 08:38.
Joined: Feb 2002
Aviation Qualifications: AME
Posts: 4,166
Likes: 1,096
From: UK
Air Ops (Air Oops as we called them) had two or three Tristars in the 90s. When they went bust a couple of them were stranded at MAN for a long time. I think one had a major stab fault on takeoff when they got going again, did a quick circuit at about 500' and landed again!
Joined: May 2002
Posts: 408
Likes: 7
From: glasgow
I notice that British Airways are not overflying Israel enroute to the Gulf and wonder if there is a reason?
The RAF and various European airlines are now using this route and I have recently noticed Emirates doing the same.
It is also quite a change to see you can now fly from TLV to DXB.
The RAF and various European airlines are now using this route and I have recently noticed Emirates doing the same.
It is also quite a change to see you can now fly from TLV to DXB.
Joined: Feb 2007
Posts: 1,444
Likes: 2
From: UK
Saudi Arabia does not allow flights to overfly both Israel and Saudi Arabia on a route. They have granted only Air India so far rights to overfly Saudi Arabia between India and TLV and EY and EK between UAE and TLV for services destined for TLV only.
Joined: Nov 2018
Posts: 556
Likes: 28
From: back out to Grasse
Out of interest, how is it that BA have at least six aircraft, 777/787 in the air going both ways between KL and LHR as we speak, are they running some sort of shuttle service? Vaccine transport<?