Edinburgh-4
Join Date: Aug 2002
Location: Scotland
Posts: 255
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Well said - The reality is that the increased measures being talked about by the Scottish government are an extension of the vaccine passport scheme to a level that is already in place in many European countries - and far short of the much greater restrictions we're seeing in the likes of Ireland, the Netherlands, Austria and many other countries around the world.
The reality is that in Scotland, as in the rest of the UK and across the world, for all governments (no matter what the political makeup), public health - and preventing people dying - is the number one priority and far outweighs how many passengers may or may not pass through a particular airport. Whilst it's of course disappointing and hurts business and employment in certain industries, it's nevertheless a fact of life in our times and most sensible people understand this. No government anywhere is introducing lockdowns and restrictions for fun!
It's quite noticeable here and elsewhere some people seem to want to operate on the presumption that every instance where the ScotGov take a decision or course of action on COVID, it is automatically wrong and the UK government is always right. This is a highly one-eyed taking way of taking things and I'd suggest there are multiple pieces of evidence that would potentially point to such assertions probably not being correct. I'm not for a minute saying their always right, but just that it's likely they're not always wrong either!
This is a interview with Emirates UK divisional VP, published only a couple of weeks ago: https://netimesmagazine.co.uk/magazi...ing-off-again/
In it he clearly states that their NCL service is currently at 4x weekly and the plan is to get it back up to daily:
There is no mention of double daily and as such the claims of it going double daily appear to questionable..
Also wrt DXB, a point that is being ignored here is that the travel restrictions into Australia and NZ are much greater than anything that's in force in Scotland and the rest in the UK. Aus/NZ are two of the top - if not the top - connecting destinations for pax on on EK flights from Scotland and as such an objective assessment would suggest it's likely that these restrictions are actually what's having far more of an effect on EK numbers than any potential vaccine passport system to get into pubs in Scotland! Indeed, the interview with Emirates UK divisional VP alludes to exactly that:
Wrt westjet, they have a significantly bigger flying programme planned from GLA for S22, so if it's Scottish COVID restrictions which are to blame, then why are these flights still bookable? Similarly, as already mentioned, Ireland has much tougher restrictions currently than anything being proposed for Scotland, but DUB flights are still on sale.
Indeed, a few minutes research shows that the current level of restrictions in Toronto is greater than we currently have in Scotland! An extension of the vaccine passport scheme in Scotland as is being discussed would only take us to roundabout the same level as exists in Toronto currently!
https://www.toronto.ca/home/covid-19...tives-by-laws/
https://www.thestar.com/amp/politics...ses-surge.html
In light of the above, I'd suggest it's questionable and overly simplistic to attempt to blame any issues westjet may have at EDI solely on ScotGov's COVID policy. Airlines always look for excuses and I'd suggest just as large an issue is the very large planned transatlantic capacity planned from EDI in S22 - in peak summer I make it 6 flights per day to US hubs, plus MCO, plus daily AC, plus WJ. Iirc EDI-YYZ capacity is actually up a fair bit compared to S19 and that may well be a bit of a stretch potentially imo. Maybe, just maybe, there is too much transatlantic/Canada capacity in place for S22 and westjet might just be seeing disappointing bookings as a result......
The reality is that in Scotland, as in the rest of the UK and across the world, for all governments (no matter what the political makeup), public health - and preventing people dying - is the number one priority and far outweighs how many passengers may or may not pass through a particular airport. Whilst it's of course disappointing and hurts business and employment in certain industries, it's nevertheless a fact of life in our times and most sensible people understand this. No government anywhere is introducing lockdowns and restrictions for fun!
It's quite noticeable here and elsewhere some people seem to want to operate on the presumption that every instance where the ScotGov take a decision or course of action on COVID, it is automatically wrong and the UK government is always right. This is a highly one-eyed taking way of taking things and I'd suggest there are multiple pieces of evidence that would potentially point to such assertions probably not being correct. I'm not for a minute saying their always right, but just that it's likely they're not always wrong either!
Originally Posted by Planeraz
It would appear that the EDI-Dubai route is gone for good. Was officially “suspended”. With Newcastle set to go double daily, their appears to be little chance of a resumption.
In it he clearly states that their NCL service is currently at 4x weekly and the plan is to get it back up to daily:
Prior to COVID-19, we had a daily Dubai service and that is what we expect to get back to.
I’d expect all of that will help us build back to a daily flight from Newcastle.
Also wrt DXB, a point that is being ignored here is that the travel restrictions into Australia and NZ are much greater than anything that's in force in Scotland and the rest in the UK. Aus/NZ are two of the top - if not the top - connecting destinations for pax on on EK flights from Scotland and as such an objective assessment would suggest it's likely that these restrictions are actually what's having far more of an effect on EK numbers than any potential vaccine passport system to get into pubs in Scotland! Indeed, the interview with Emirates UK divisional VP alludes to exactly that:
Some overseas markets remain difficult to access. Australia and New Zealand were historically two important markets out of Newcastle, for example, but are difficult to get into at present. However, they are expected to open soon, and demand will increase.
Indeed, a few minutes research shows that the current level of restrictions in Toronto is greater than we currently have in Scotland! An extension of the vaccine passport scheme in Scotland as is being discussed would only take us to roundabout the same level as exists in Toronto currently!
https://www.toronto.ca/home/covid-19...tives-by-laws/
https://www.thestar.com/amp/politics...ses-surge.html
In light of the above, I'd suggest it's questionable and overly simplistic to attempt to blame any issues westjet may have at EDI solely on ScotGov's COVID policy. Airlines always look for excuses and I'd suggest just as large an issue is the very large planned transatlantic capacity planned from EDI in S22 - in peak summer I make it 6 flights per day to US hubs, plus MCO, plus daily AC, plus WJ. Iirc EDI-YYZ capacity is actually up a fair bit compared to S19 and that may well be a bit of a stretch potentially imo. Maybe, just maybe, there is too much transatlantic/Canada capacity in place for S22 and westjet might just be seeing disappointing bookings as a result......
Last edited by nef; 21st Nov 2021 at 19:38.
The reference to double daily EK into NCL stems from their recently reported slot application - not seen any mention anywhere else. But as we know, applying for slots and using them are two completely different things....
Join Date: Aug 2002
Location: Scotland
Posts: 255
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Yes, if airlines operated everything they applied for slots for the aviation world would be a very different place!
The claim in the earlier post that EK NCL-DXB is "set" to go double daily is still highly questionable.
The claim in the earlier post that EK NCL-DXB is "set" to go double daily is still highly questionable.
In your opinion, which is as valid as Planeraz's - neither of you know. It's just as valid a point to say that airlines don't apply for additional slots for a bit of a laugh.
Join Date: Aug 2013
Location: Newcastle Upon Tyne
Posts: 949
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
EK taking EDI flight numbers for NCL was odd maybe not so odd if they are planning to consolodate NCL EDI flights into NCL double daily, still its wishful thinking when we havent gone back daily yet.
The double daily, eventually, plan for NCL may have more to do with freight capacity which I understand is an important part of the NCL revenue. I did think that serving EDI was maybe splitting their own market. This could all be absolutely wrong, of course.
Join Date: Aug 2002
Location: Scotland
Posts: 255
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
LiamNCL
But NCL is more than double the distance from Edinburgh that GLA is (approx 120miles v 55miles), so I'm not sure how you consolidate the EDI flight into NCL, it doesn't make much sense to me. I guess it does for pax from the borders, but are there many city of Edinburgh pax using the NCL service? It would seem easier and more sensible for them to use the one at GLA.
But NCL is more than double the distance from Edinburgh that GLA is (approx 120miles v 55miles), so I'm not sure how you consolidate the EDI flight into NCL, it doesn't make much sense to me. I guess it does for pax from the borders, but are there many city of Edinburgh pax using the NCL service? It would seem easier and more sensible for them to use the one at GLA.
Join Date: Mar 2004
Location: Dorset
Posts: 677
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
On the basis that EK did indeed apply for slots at NCL for a second daily service, there must be some work ongoing to look at it. I can’t think of any airlines, let alone those of EK standing, who apply for slots to cover things they have no intention of doing !
If NCL get this, regardless of whether or not EK return to EDI, then good luck to them. I can’t see NCL being a substitute for EDI. Probably more like with no TK, QR at NCL, they have a captive share of a smaller market rather than a small share of a bigger one.
If NCL get this, regardless of whether or not EK return to EDI, then good luck to them. I can’t see NCL being a substitute for EDI. Probably more like with no TK, QR at NCL, they have a captive share of a smaller market rather than a small share of a bigger one.
Join Date: Aug 2016
Location: Oban, Scotland
Posts: 1,845
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Actually I believe quite a few pax at NCL have travelled from the east of Scotland, because of the much larger TUI and Jet2 operations there, and possibly a dislike of the M8 through Glasgow.
Join Date: Nov 2000
Location: London, UK
Posts: 710
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
I think a lot of people get far too exercised about initial slot applications. As the slot application process is transparent, the applications have to make sense. In this case it is quite possible that EK, naturally wanting to maximise its slot holding at DXB, just looked for somewhere to proport to add an extra flight simply to increase their DXB holding. I’m not saying that EK will or won’t add an extra NCL, only that you shouldn’t read too much into some slot applications.
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: UK
Age: 48
Posts: 280
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
I'm amazed that many think a double daily NCL somehow shows the demise of Edinburgh.
I've said before Edi has great long haul hub connectivity with FRA,HEL,IST,CDG,DOH,AMS,BRU
even without LHR.
I've said before Edi has great long haul hub connectivity with FRA,HEL,IST,CDG,DOH,AMS,BRU
even without LHR.
Thread Starter
Join Date: Mar 2018
Location: United kingdom
Posts: 334
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
The public slot report for DXB also shows that Emirates still hold slots for their daily EDI-DXB service too. Doesn't mean they will operate it, but they have the slots to do so.
Join Date: Oct 2021
Location: Edin
Posts: 425
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Wizz Air
Wizz have suspended all routes to/from EDI. Budapest scheduled to return 14/12 with Bucharest and Warsaw showing as 16/12. Given the situation in Eastern Europe, it wouldn’t be a surprise if the suspension rolls into 2022.
Wizz have suspended all routes to/from EDI. Budapest scheduled to return 14/12 with Bucharest and Warsaw showing as 16/12. Given the situation in Eastern Europe, it wouldn’t be a surprise if the suspension rolls into 2022.
Join Date: Oct 2021
Location: Edin
Posts: 425
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
I had a Budapest departure for 7/12. I was informed this morning about the route suspension. Perhaps some passengers were informed prior to today, but clearly not all. The situation in Eastern Europe i referred to was in relation to covid.
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: UK
Age: 48
Posts: 280
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
I don't think anyone would be surprised at Airlines suspending and cancelling during covid, with low bookings or restrictions changing.
There is a certain undertone in your previous posts which some have picked up on
There is a certain undertone in your previous posts which some have picked up on
Join Date: Oct 2021
Location: Edin
Posts: 425
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Qatar using an A332 on tomorrow’s service. First time visitor to EDI for this type of Qatar aircraft? Seems a bit random. Slightly larger capacity compared to a 787. Around 30 more seats. Doubtful it would be to satisfy a sudden increased demand.