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BA @ Edinburgh shambles this evening.

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BA @ Edinburgh shambles this evening.

Old 10th Oct 2020, 10:22
  #21 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by willy wombat View Post
Shame on you airline people posting above telling pax it’s not the airline’s fault, blame the handling agent. Who appoints and (hopefully) monitors the handling agent? That would be the airline. Average passenger doesn’t draw a distinction between the airline and the handling agent and airlines by and large understand that. I used to travel a lot through EDI, but haven’t since March and the place used to be a shambles because it was too busy. Now it sounds like a shambles because it’s too quiet.
In fairness this is a forum for pilots and airline personnel so that kind of thing is going to happen. Indeed, there will have been an internal apportion of blame when it came to categorising the delay in question.

For me personally, it just came across as a pure attack on BA. I think some of the comments about the pilot(s) being “self congratulating” are unfair when the chances are it was probably a simple “we are expecting to arrive ahead of schedule” statement. I was on a BA flight just the other day that arrived early and it was just announced as a simple fact by the Captain.

Now, 55 minute delay in disembarking is not great at all, and somewhere someone will have to account for that delay such is the process within an airline. I see nothing to suggest that this is a regular occurrence at BA. I’ve flown 8 sectors with them this year, more last year and haven’t experienced this.

In my opinion the delay, however frustrating, was being used as a stick to beat BA for the OP’s misgivings and dislike the airline it is today. It’s had to adapt to compete, certainly within Europe, and I don’t agree with all cost cuttings it has made, certainly on long haul. Some of the measures on the latter were reversed pre-Covid though.
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Old 10th Oct 2020, 10:26
  #22 (permalink)  
 
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Even pre-CV, airports have never been able to cope with 'early'. It is an anathema.

Run late or cancel - that is what the system expects and is geared to.

And bear in mind as well, handling agents' ground staff was pared to the bone even during normal operations. Out-of-hours and you were flogging a dead gorse if one had been even rostered.
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Old 10th Oct 2020, 10:27
  #23 (permalink)  
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I agree with you Cornish J. I have lived and worked in sunny and humid climes in my nomadic career. The sight of a British Airways B747 would bring an admittedly metaphorical lump to the throat and a welcome reminder of home. All this was played upon with the misty eyed farewell to the magnificent 747 this week. Unfortunately this only served to highlight the difference between those days and the modern reality. I suppose it was this juxtaposition that precipitated my (I think justifiable) rant. Cheers.
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Old 10th Oct 2020, 10:31
  #24 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by stonejo View Post
Another thing to take into consideration is that the handling agents are almost certainly running on reduced manpower and where busy serving another aircraft at that time considering you where early.
I was thinking the same, but looking at FR24 presumably this was BA1458 due at 19.25 which is shown as landing at 19.05?

The only flight for an hour either side was BA8708, also due at 19.25 which landed at 19.11. Usual caveat of this being FR24 data.
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Old 10th Oct 2020, 10:33
  #25 (permalink)  
 
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It happens a lot. Last Monday I flew ARN-LHR on BA. We landed 25 mins early and the pilot came on and said that we’ll now need to wait here on the taxiway for 15-20mins because our gate is busy. BA pilots are usually decent about it and more often than not just as p***ed off as the rest of us.
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Old 10th Oct 2020, 10:34
  #26 (permalink)  
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Rest assured regardless of FR info we were sat there for 55 minutes.
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Old 10th Oct 2020, 10:48
  #27 (permalink)  
 
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Avoid , Avoid ! Although when flying to EDI
there probably isn’t much choice for the passenger as to what carrier to use.

The only saving grace is that BA have a good safety record and that’s important.
Otherwise the passenger experience is mediocre in all classes , and we all know why.
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Old 10th Oct 2020, 10:57
  #28 (permalink)  
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Plus FR data may say the landing and on blocks time but it doesn’t tell you when the one set of steps arrive.
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Old 10th Oct 2020, 11:08
  #29 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by SWBKCB View Post
I was thinking the same, but looking at FR24 presumably this was BA1458 due at 19.25 which is shown as landing at 19.05?

The only flight for an hour either side was BA8708, also due at 19.25 which landed at 19.11. Usual caveat of this being FR24 data.
There was also another LHR on the deck (BA1452/1455). I can only assume Menzies have not adequately prepared for the recent frequency increases by BA, and are still running things too short with staff furloughs to be able to deal with 3 turnarounds at the same time...
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Old 10th Oct 2020, 11:16
  #30 (permalink)  
 
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I expect the main reason for the lack of ground equipment being provided in a timely fashion is this

https://www.theguardian.com/business...bs-coronavirus

Thousands of people in the Aviation sector are losing their jobs because the bottom has fallen out of the market, governments have barred travel to other countries, and within their own borders, and you decide to have a rant. Well done.

Ttfn
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Old 10th Oct 2020, 11:17
  #31 (permalink)  
 
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Unfortunately in the modern world systems are often designed with lots
of cracks in the woodwork for problems to fall down. Blame becomes a pass-the-parcel game.
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Old 10th Oct 2020, 11:25
  #32 (permalink)  
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Cheers aptly named toolbox. I happen to be one of those aviation employees losing their job. But hey why not make a pointless bitchy remark when you don’t know me or my circumstance? Either way to sit imprisoned on an A320 for 55 minutes waiting for the one set of steps is unacceptable covid crisis or not. I started this thread thinking that surely for once most people could have consensus that this is not good or even normal service from one of Britain’s most well known companies. But of course this is the internet where everyone can pile in.
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Old 10th Oct 2020, 12:04
  #33 (permalink)  
 
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I don't blame the cabin crew for barking, what do they honestly expect them to do? They might apologise, but what does that achieve? Steps won't come any quicker! If someone is dissatisfied write in, email, leave a terrible review, take your money elsewhere; having a pop at the cabin crew over something that is completely out of their control just to show off/vent is quite frankly immature.
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Old 10th Oct 2020, 12:05
  #34 (permalink)  
 
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Do BA even have Station Managers based at their UK regional bases anymore? Or is it done remotely from LON?

I am always surprised how many drivers don't realise that arriving ahead of schedule (at least at busy airports in busy times) can be as complicated for the airport and handler to accommodate than being the same amount behind schedule.
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Old 10th Oct 2020, 12:37
  #35 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by AircraftOperations View Post
Do BA even have Station Managers based at their UK regional bases anymore? Or is it done remotely from LON?
All BA regional Managers are long gone. As for the incident it's self, I suspect a combination of reduced staff on the ground handler (Menzies) due furlough, and also, which has not been mentioned is that most Handlers rent equipment, steps etc.. and a huge chunk of that has been returned to the owners to save cash meaning the guys and gals on the ground are having to use even less equipment than they would normaly have baring in mind that even in normal times, they don't have enough equipment.
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Old 10th Oct 2020, 12:41
  #36 (permalink)  
 
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Bottom line - 55 minute wait on stand is unacceptable.

Made worse by flight crew raising expectations, reasonable to expect that flight crew know that arriving early needs to be co-ordinated with handling agent.
Flight crew could have ameliorated problem by advising that there will be an unfortunate wait for ground equipment, having raised expectations, it's unfair to expect CC to deal with outcome.

Could easily have been handled better. Some folk on this forum need resist getting their tuppence worth in and be honest with themselves, who wouldn't have been irritated under the circumstances as described?

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Old 10th Oct 2020, 12:58
  #37 (permalink)  
 
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The next gen single aisle could well come with airstairs or a floor low enough such that you only need a step. Still, there are further problems from then on - no ones getting off if there isn't a bus or ground staff to control passengers.
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Old 10th Oct 2020, 14:04
  #38 (permalink)  
 
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The next gen single aisle could well come with airstairs or a floor low enough such that you only need a step. Still, there are further problems from then on - no ones getting off if there isn't a bus or ground staff to control passengers.
Precisely.

Things that were possible in days of yore, no longer are! To rail against that is simply life shortening!

It’s where price comparison sites and the pursuit of ‘cheapest’ gets us. All mixed in with a hefty dose of ‘elf n safety’ and ‘security‘. Get used to the brave new world. You’ll live longer, if less satisfactorily!
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Old 10th Oct 2020, 14:11
  #39 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by Momoe View Post
Bottom line - 55 minute wait on stand is unacceptable.

Made worse by flight crew raising expectations, reasonable to expect that flight crew know that arriving early needs to be co-ordinated with handling agent.
Flight crew could have ameliorated problem by advising that there will be an unfortunate wait for ground equipment, having raised expectations, it's unfair to expect CC to deal with outcome.

Could easily have been handled better. Some folk on this forum need resist getting their tuppence worth in and be honest with themselves, who wouldn't have been irritated under the circumstances as described?
I think few are saying that passengers should just suck it up. Flight crew raising expectations is just rubbish. Fact was they were going to arrive early, they were keeping the passengers updated as per their role. A plane cannot run to a bus style timetable (although you’d think they could given the very precise schedules in the US) and arriving early is sometimes unavoidable.
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Old 10th Oct 2020, 14:28
  #40 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by TotalBeginner View Post
I don't blame the cabin crew for barking, what do they honestly expect them to do? They might apologise, but what does that achieve? Steps won't come any quicker! If someone is dissatisfied write in, email, leave a terrible review, take your money elsewhere; having a pop at the cabin crew over something that is completely out of their control just to show off/vent is quite frankly immature.
I,m not sure anybody had a “ pop” at the cabin crew , at least it’s not been described as such.

An apology, although ineffective in terms of influencing the prompt arrival of the ground equipment, is always welcome . After all the cc are the pax facing representatives of the company, an apology and a truthful explanation can effectively calm things down.

Most sensible people realize it is not the crew,s fault, but becoming all “ defensive” is a poor show and a sad reflection on the calibre of some employees .
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