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Edinburgh-3

Old 4th Jul 2019, 10:14
  #1261 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Dec 2011
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Originally Posted by Skipness One Foxtrot View Post
The key problem with UNITED using a C30WY184 B763 to replace a C16WY153 B752 is that for a highly seasonal VFR market like Scotland, you're adding 20% more WY but a whopping 88% more seats in Business and Polaris Business at that. It's not like Air Canada Rouge where end of life B763s are being used to serve secondary markets, the UNITED B763 fleet is being refershed with their latest product for key business markets.

The B764 gives a 31.4% boost in seats in WY against the B752 whereas Business jumps by 144%, these are premium heavy birds.
Not quite sure how a UNITED 767 works in EDI?
The B767-300ER fleet is being refurbished and re-deployed into key business markets, whereas the B757 was until recently, a reliable work horse with the range and right size of capacity. By way of comparison, DUB gets a B757 to IAD and ORD but EWR gets a high density domestic configured B772 with a domestic First rather than Polaris, as does MAD.
In summer peak, I suspect that's the way forward in EDI, however if that's too much capacity for the Scottish market, and B757 availability becomes a growing issue, then there is a way to manage that, and that's by dropping GLA entirely. As the B757s are retired and redeployed, some of the less profitable flying will end and comparing GLA/EDI it's clear where the focus lies nowadays.
Now I am not just setting out to be contentious as GLA was my old local, but if UNITED are keen on EWR-Scotland that might be the best way given their fleet constraints cos the B767 just doesn't fit the market whereas those B777s are in the old tradition of the Scottish market of flying paid for wide bodies into leisure markets over the summer. I am thinking of Air Canada flying daily on YYZ-GLA and of course NWO flying daily B747s into PIK, it was always the -100s and not the shiney new 200s
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Old 4th Jul 2019, 10:40
  #1262 (permalink)  
 
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It seems like as you say the best course of action would be a B777-200 peak summer and a B767 possibly during the winter, If the B757 was to stay longer I would think they would go back to 2x daily instead of upgauging, but since they are retiring the B757 It would be logical to use a B777-200 or B767-300.
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Old 4th Jul 2019, 11:00
  #1263 (permalink)  
 
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757 is fine on EWR through winter, 767 would be useful to boost capacity to NYC during the peak season. I do not think we need a 777 yet.
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Old 4th Jul 2019, 12:09
  #1264 (permalink)  
 
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My key point is the B763 is not suitable for Scotland due to the high % Premium offering. It’s got nowhere near enough seats IMHO, interestingly MAN-EWR has gone for the larger B767-400ER.
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Old 4th Jul 2019, 12:21
  #1265 (permalink)  
 
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Think that is because the loads are pretty good out of MAN
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Old 4th Jul 2019, 13:33
  #1266 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by Skipness One Foxtrot View Post
Not quite sure how a UNITED 767 works in EDI?
The B767-300ER fleet is being refurbished and re-deployed into key business markets, whereas the B757 was until recently, a reliable work horse with the range and right size of capacity. By way of comparison, DUB gets a B757 to IAD and ORD but EWR gets a high density domestic configured B772 with a domestic First rather than Polaris, as does MAD.
In summer peak, I suspect that's the way forward in EDI, however if that's too much capacity for the Scottish market, and B757 availability becomes a growing issue, then there is a way to manage that, and that's by dropping GLA entirely. As the B757s are retired and redeployed, some of the less profitable flying will end and comparing GLA/EDI it's clear where the focus lies nowadays.
Now I am not just setting out to be contentious as GLA was my old local, but if UNITED are keen on EWR-Scotland that might be the best way given their fleet constraints cos the B767 just doesn't fit the market whereas those B777s are in the old tradition of the Scottish market of flying paid for wide bodies into leisure markets over the summer. I am thinking of Air Canada flying daily on YYZ-GLA and of course NWO flying daily B747s into PIK, it was always the -100s and not the shiney new 200s
If we were talking about the premium heavy 167 seat layout, then yes I would agree it's not right for the market. However, I don't think that the standard 214 seat config is too premium heavy. EWR was regularly filling 32J a day in summer until the switch to IAD was made.

It may also depend upon UA's desire to introduce Polaris/Premium Plus to the EDI market in the longer term. EWR-DUB is now served by B78X, which as a brand new aircraft is obviously kitted out with all the latest cabins.
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Old 4th Jul 2019, 20:31
  #1267 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Oct 2017
Location: Scotland
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UAs Manchester loads haven't been that far from Edinburgh's. I did a quick comparison using the CAA stats below and they show that both are reasonably similar every month until the 767 was scheduled at the end of March. I presume the large December difference could be due to Jet 2 Christmas charters.

Edinburgh actually had marginally more Newark passengers traveling between April 2018 to March 2019 if we exclude December. (102,077 vs 100,927, a difference of 1150). Even looking at 2017 when United was flying 2 daily, Edinburgh had around 15,000 Newark passengers which would more than enough to fill a B764. This didn't seem to impact much on Glasgow loads since that was running at about 9,000.

My numbers are only a very quick excel calculation, so please correct me if I'm wildly off! However, I think it's a matter of when and not if United will upgrade to a 767 next year.

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Old 4th Jul 2019, 21:50
  #1268 (permalink)  
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Surprised that loads to DOH just in 60's.
But suppose EK will put paid to ongoing increases, though thought with DXB reductions QR might have picked up for May.
Can CWL say their lowish loads are allowed due to there being rammed J cabins or does that only apply to EDI?
1/3 empty A350 must be a delight for long haul
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Old 4th Jul 2019, 22:06
  #1269 (permalink)  
 
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At the present fares, I assume that most of the people who are actually paying their own TATL fares aren't using the direct services, given that fares via Man or Dub are a third of the price. Clearly the airlines must love being able to charge 1500+ and won't want to increase capacity so much that fares collapse.
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Old 5th Jul 2019, 01:11
  #1270 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by VickersVicount View Post
Surprised that loads to DOH just in 60's.
But suppose EK will put paid to ongoing increases, though thought with DXB reductions QR might have picked up for May.
Can CWL say their lowish loads are allowed due to there being rammed J cabins or does that only apply to EDI?
1/3 empty A350 must be a delight for long haul
Is it really that surprising? Outside of peak travel times, QR UK regional loads are never particularly high. So given it was Ramadan during May, one of the quiet times of the year for travel on the ME3, what was really expected? QR has almost zero O&D to DOH in comparison to EK and are still unable to serve DXB, they aren't going to fare any better. Pax figures were up 26% year on year, so they have actually picked up compared to last May.

EDI generally holds up better than the other UK regional routes when it comes to flying fresh air around at quiet travel times, and that was the case again for May. BHX 55%/CWL 43%/MAN 60%/EDI 62%

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Old 9th Jul 2019, 20:10
  #1271 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Mar 2018
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It looks like nothing new again for EasyJet W19, has there been any frequency changes?
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Old 12th Jul 2019, 17:30
  #1272 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Mar 2018
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Also I have seen that the other airports, London City, Manchester and Birmingham etc. Have had the W19 Initial slot report filed, If anyone can pls share Edinburghs report It would be very much appreciated.
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Old 12th Jul 2019, 18:33
  #1273 (permalink)  
 
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I'm probably wrong, but I think that the airports mentioned all have their slot allocations managed by an organisation called ALC. EDI doesn't use ALC
I've certainly never seen a list of the allocations for EDI.
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Old 12th Jul 2019, 18:55
  #1274 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by inOban View Post
I'm probably wrong, but I think that the airports mentioned all have their slot allocations managed by an organisation called ALC. EDI doesn't use ALC
I've certainly never seen a list of the allocations for EDI.
Edinburgh do use ACL for slot allocations, but Edinburgh is rated a level 2 airport, Manchester ect is a Level 3 airport, So level 2 airports need to be requested by a member, You can see at some point in the thread BHX5DME had the sats, hope this helps 😃
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Old 12th Jul 2019, 18:58
  #1275 (permalink)  
 
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Thanks for that. I remember looking on the ALC Site and not seeing the data. What are the criteria for the different levels?
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Old 12th Jul 2019, 19:06
  #1276 (permalink)  
 
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It’s ACL not ALC - Airport Coordination Ltd (I used to be a Board member in another life).
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Old 16th Jul 2019, 10:28
  #1277 (permalink)  
 
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https://www.edinburghairport.com/about-us/media-centre/press-releases/successful-start-to-summer

Only slight growth because of the loss of the Ryanair flights to Stansted, but even international is not growing as fast as last year.
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Old 19th Jul 2019, 12:43
  #1278 (permalink)  
 
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Finnair increasing there winter frequency from 3 to 6 x weekly

AY1371 HEL0810 – 0910EDI E90 x247
AY1373 HEL1655 – 1755EDI E90 46

AY1372 EDI0950 – 1430HEL E90 x247
AY1374 EDI1835 – 2310HEL E90 46

https://www.routesonline.com/news/38...ervice-in-w19/
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Old 20th Jul 2019, 22:08
  #1279 (permalink)  
 
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Someone chartered a Carpatair F100 from Glasgow to Edinburgh with the flight being only 20 mins!
https://www.glasgowlive.co.uk/news/g...asgow-16581364

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Old 21st Jul 2019, 11:46
  #1280 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by Plane mad 134 View Post
Someone chartered a Carpatair F100 from Glasgow to Edinburgh with the flight being only 20 mins!
https://www.glasgowlive.co.uk/news/g...asgow-16581364
Not sure if it was not just repositioning as it went from EDI to Milan the following day. It seems to get about a bit doing Faro GLA Milan the day after that. I once flew on a DanAir charter from Prestwick to Abbottsinch in the boom years of the oil industry, due to fog and logistic headaches. We spent a night in a Prestwick hotel after being bussed down there as the plane could not land at GLA, then the second night at home before we got a slot from GLA to LSI.
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