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Norwich-2

Old 22nd Aug 2019, 21:15
  #141 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by virginblue View Post
You have to love the Daily Mail for its reporting:[B]



Would that have been one of the Loganair jets then?
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Old 22nd Aug 2019, 21:31
  #142 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by Mike Flynn View Post
Prince William and family today flew economy from Norwich to Aberdeen.

What’s the betting they were not subjected to the usual surly staff,over the top bag searches and a £10 departure fee?

Mike oh Mike you never cease to amaze with your vendetta against Norwich.
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Old 24th Aug 2019, 10:00
  #143 (permalink)  
 
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According to the Scotsman this morning Flybe flew an empty plane from Humberside to Norwich for the flight so that the Royal party were in a Flybe-branded plane. The scheduled Loganair plane flew empty to Aberdeen to pick up the schedule. They suggest an extra 4tonnes of CO2...
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Old 24th Aug 2019, 10:16
  #144 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by inOban View Post
According to the Scotsman this morning Flybe flew an empty plane from Humberside to Norwich for the flight so that the Royal party were in a Flybe-branded plane. The scheduled Loganair plane flew empty to Aberdeen to pick up the schedule. They suggest an extra 4tonnes of CO2...
Eastern Airways not Flybe.
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Old 29th Aug 2019, 15:19
  #145 (permalink)  
 
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It appears William and Kate were not subjected to the usual Norwich security gestapo or indeed the £10 departure fee.

They were driven through a security gate to the ramp and boarded last minute avoiding the plebs.

As for my critics the airport scores 3/10 on Skytrax and here is a review from this month.

sleepy, lazy and incompetently-run airport"

M Warden (United Kingdom) 7th August 2019

Trip Verified | A sleepy, lazy and incompetently-run airport - with an outrageous £10 "airport improvement" tax. OK, Norwich airport does have some advantages: it is small, and it's possible to park 20m from the main entrance. But that's about it. Check-in staff were fine, but then all passengers have to pay £10 for a ridiculous "Airport Improvement" fee. It's just rent-seeking by a lazy management team - no sign of any improvement since I last travelled through Norwich airport 10 years ago. And then security were unable to scan phone-based boarding passes. In an airport. The lack of urgency or interest in giving customer service from the security screening staff was about as poor as I've seen anywhere in the world. Just shameful. The Business lounge was equally laughable. There was tea, coffee, a couple of soft drinks and a few bits and pieces of snacks. And that was it. OK, it's a small airport but clearly they do the absolute minimum consistent with having a lounge for Business-class travellers. Barely worth being in. Arrivals experience was a bit better - the plane had to wait 15 minutes for ground staff to bring up some steps, which was poor. But passport control took seconds, and bag delivery was only about 10 mins. Still, I would avoid flying out of Norwich if there's a sensible choice to go elsewhere.
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Old 29th Aug 2019, 16:28
  #146 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by Mike Flynn View Post
It appears William and Kate were not subjected to the usual Norwich security gestapo or indeed the £10 departure fee.

They were driven through a security gate to the ramp and boarded last minute avoiding the plebs.

As for my critics the airport scores 3/10 on Skytrax and here is a review from this month.

Once again everyone please ignore Mike Flynn and surprise surprise our next closest airport to Norwich scores 2/10 on Skytrax.
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Old 29th Aug 2019, 17:26
  #147 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by Mike Flynn View Post
It appears William and Kate were not subjected to the usual Norwich security gestapo or indeed the £10 departure fee.

They were driven through a security gate to the ramp and boarded last minute avoiding the plebs.

As for my critics the airport scores 3/10 on Skytrax and here is a review from this month.

No different to most football teams then and no doubt other VIPs.
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Old 29th Aug 2019, 19:58
  #148 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by Mike Flynn View Post

So factual or what?

And your point is?
The rather exclusive understanding of the Daily Mail that, as quoted by me, "the ERJ series [is] popular with budget airlines"
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Old 29th Aug 2019, 20:06
  #149 (permalink)  
MDS
 
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It'd be nice if they got rid of the £10 departure tax. It's a bad faith 'gotcha' charge which annoys a lot of customers and prevents any real expansion from LCC's.

Soon it'll be the only airport in the UK with such a ridiculous scheme (as MME airport is soon to abolish it) -- infact, I can't think of any other in the whole of Europe which does this nonsense.

After Flybe abandon the sun routes at the end of summer the airport will have the same soggy set of routes they had over 15 years ago; ABZ, AMS, MAN, and EDI (although with even less frequency) - (https://web.archive.org/web/20040807.../timetable.pdf). Less holiday destinations in summertime too. Despite collecting at least £50m since the inception of the passenger fee, there have been no improvements to justify even a fraction of that cost.

Summer 2004 allowed you to fly to LPA, MAH, SPU, ALC, PMI, MLA, TFS, PFO, ACE, AGP, DLM, JER, IBZ, FAO, DBV, CFU. Even winter was able to maintain a solid set of routes.

They've pushed out all the GA flyers with extortionate charges, and all the flying schools (besides Premier Flight) have abandoned it (Anglia Air Centre, Norwich School of Flying, etc.)

I'm not a hater of the airport by any means -- it's one of the main influences as to why I became interested in aviation many years ago and pursued it as a career, hence I'm quite passionate about what happens at NWI; but what positives are there to speak about nowadays? Any?
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Old 30th Aug 2019, 20:43
  #150 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by MDS View Post
It'd be nice if they got rid of the £10 departure tax. It's a bad faith 'gotcha' charge which annoys a lot of customers and prevents any real expansion from LCC's.

Soon it'll be the only airport in the UK with such a ridiculous scheme (as MME airport is soon to abolish it) -- infact, I can't think of any other in the whole of Europe which does this nonsense.

After Flybe abandon the sun routes at the end of summer the airport will have the same soggy set of routes they had over 15 years ago; ABZ, AMS, MAN, and EDI (although with even less frequency) - (https://web.archive.org/web/20040807.../timetable.pdf). Less holiday destinations in summertime too. Despite collecting at least £50m since the inception of the passenger fee, there have been no improvements to justify even a fraction of that cost.

Summer 2004 allowed you to fly to LPA, MAH, SPU, ALC, PMI, MLA, TFS, PFO, ACE, AGP, DLM, JER, IBZ, FAO, DBV, CFU. Even winter was able to maintain a solid set of routes.

They've pushed out all the GA flyers with extortionate charges, and all the flying schools (besides Premier Flight) have abandoned it (Anglia Air Centre, Norwich School of Flying, etc.)

I'm not a hater of the airport by any means -- it's one of the main influences as to why I became interested in aviation many years ago and pursued it as a career, hence I'm quite passionate about what happens at NWI; but what positives are there to speak about nowadays? Any?
That is an excellent assessment of Norwich MDS.

Many years ago we had the GA centre with a wonderful club and bar overlooking the airport.

In my early days flying up from the Channel Islands I was allowed to park outside the terminal building for a few hours. This was 1992 when the airport was run by the local council as a facility not a money making machine.

Saxonair provide a good handling service.In the case of the recent royals they would have handled them to the aircraft so like GA aircraft no departure fee or miserable staff in what I can best describe as a shed.

The management of Norwich know the airport is dependent on the oil and gas offshore trade. KLM Engineering has just signed a deal with Rigby to put up a new shed but with Brexit one has to ask what future Norwich has.

I have a few critics such as Nick Barnes but when you descend to the basement of PPRuNe you find the anoraks and spotters.

The reason private GA and helicopter movements have left Norwich is down to the management who treat their customers in a truly abysmal way.

The airport building is little more than a sad looking industrial building with a lot of bored low paid staff.

Be nice to see what flying qualifications Nick has to post on what is a pilots rumour network?
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Old 30th Aug 2019, 21:08
  #151 (permalink)  
 
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I have posted this before but here it is again for my critics.

Originally Posted by Mike Flynn View Post
I have fond memories of the airport being run by the council and the excellent staff they had there in the 1990's.

I am not anti Norwich but think it's sad the managment don't want to make the place more user friendly.

I took this on the apron some years ago. The car used to belong to me and a friend flew the aircraft for Air UK which is now in the museum.
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Old 31st Aug 2019, 08:21
  #152 (permalink)  
 
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Looks like his car has got a parking ticket attached to the windscreen
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Old 31st Aug 2019, 21:25
  #153 (permalink)  
 
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I do not bash Norwich for the sake of it.

There are some wonderful small airports I frequent around the world. Most of the commentators here are airline spotters and ‘enthusiasts’ but not pilots. In reply to Nick I suggest you take a look at why Norwich Airport gets such bad reviews. I speak as someone who has spent a small fortune on fixed wing and helicopters over 35 years across the globe. I think that entitles me to post fair comment.

You post as a non pilot on what is a pilots forum.

What I do take umbrage at is the rip off airport development fee that has delivered nothing in over a decade.

Norwich is par for the course compared to many third world countries I visit.

As a so called ‘International ‘ airport it is a joke. Less space than the nearby B and Q shed and the facilities are abysmal. The management don’t care because the general public are peripheral to the industry they serve in the North Sea.

The two major players that keep the place operating are the oil and gas industry and KLM. Both are interrelated in terms of a business model.

What impact Brexit will have on KLM remains to be seen.

If KLM ever close their Norwich operation the airport is finished.

Last edited by Mike Flynn; 31st Aug 2019 at 21:39.
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Old 1st Sep 2019, 07:27
  #154 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by Mike Flynn View Post
I do not bash Norwich for the sake of it.

There are some wonderful small airports I frequent around the world. Most of the commentators here are airline spotters and ‘enthusiasts’ but not pilots. In reply to Nick I suggest you take a look at why Norwich Airport gets such bad reviews. I speak as someone who has spent a small fortune on fixed wing and helicopters over 35 years across the globe. I think that entitles me to post fair comment.

You post as a non pilot on what is a pilots forum.

What I do take umbrage at is the rip off airport development fee that has delivered nothing in over a decade.

Norwich is par for the course compared to many third world countries I visit.

As a so called ‘International ‘ airport it is a joke. Less space than the nearby B and Q shed and the facilities are abysmal. The management don’t care because the general public are peripheral to the industry they serve in the North Sea.

The two major players that keep the place operating are the oil and gas industry and KLM. Both are interrelated in terms of a business model.

What impact Brexit will have on KLM remains to be seen.

If KLM ever close their Norwich operation the airport is finished.
Indeed I was a non pilot until recently when I recently qualified thank you very much and I don't think I need to justify this to you for something I worked so very hard to achieve throughout my life. The rudeness of yourself and the fact you come to a conclusion about someone beggars belief, have you ever thought that pilots can be spotters etc because guess what they love everything about aviation hense why they are a Pilot. I'm proud at what I have achieved and feel very lucky to be able to do it at this time in my life. I went back through your posts as you did mine and the most notable thing (among many questionable posts) is under the name Jay Sata you said you haven't been to Norwich Airport for years so honestly why you still post about it (everything negative) is frankly insane as it really shouldn't affect you now.

But anyway enough is enough of this as it's like bashing my head against a wall.

PS I enjoy using the 2 Costa coffee's both airside and landside, the world duty free and also the 2 Whsmiths that opened both landside and airside now, the new navigator pub all opened in the last year, certainly haven't seen those at third world airports. Oh and if Norwich with 3/10 on Skytrax means its third world then I hate to think what Stansted or Luton is like at 2/10.

​​​​​

Last edited by NickBarnes; 1st Sep 2019 at 08:09.
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Old 1st Sep 2019, 08:02
  #155 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by Mike Flynn View Post
There are some wonderful small airports I frequent around the world. Most of the commentators here are airline spotters and ‘enthusiasts’ but not pilots. In reply to Nick I suggest you take a look at why Norwich Airport gets such bad reviews. I speak as someone who has spent a small fortune on fixed wing and helicopters over 35 years across the globe. I think that entitles me to post fair comment.

You post as a non pilot on what is a pilots forum.
Hang on a minute Mr Flynn, are you saying that only professional pilots are qualified to post on PPRuNe? If that is so how come people like me have been allowed to join and post regularly for so many years? I never advanced beyond being a very rudimentary light aircraft pilot but my aviation experience is I'm sure as great as yours but in different areas of expertise and has certainly enabled me to contribute to the knowledge base of PPRuNe.

Getting back to NWI, since retirement it is now my local airport (although my then company did operate an aircraft from there some 15 years ago) and I use it regularly with its useful, but limited, number of destinations. I wholeheartedly agree with you on the subject of the Airport Development Fee and I consider it a drag on the airport's potential to attract new operators and routes. It has to be borne in mind though that the catchment for NWI is relatively small and it was really the demands of the oil and gas industry that gave it the basis upon which to develop more leisure oriented routes over the years. The "wonderful small airports" that you frequent no doubt have their own commercial advantages enabling them to achieve this; perhaps serving tourist resorts or wealthy communities and the like where revenues are sufficiently high. There are few small airports that I can think of which achieve a "wonderful" rating but there are a number which I have enjoyed using over the decades. Not many of them are in Europe however. I wonder if you have used EXT recently: now there is an airport that takes you straight back to the 1960s.

I'm not knocking your views in general but think that a little more realism is perhaps required.
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Old 1st Sep 2019, 08:17
  #156 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by Expressflight View Post
Hang on a minute Mr Flynn, are you saying that only professional pilots are qualified to post on PPRuNe? If that is so how come people like me have been allowed to join and post regularly for so many years? I never advanced beyond being a very rudimentary light aircraft pilot but my aviation experience is I'm sure as great as yours but in different areas of expertise and has certainly enabled me to contribute to the knowledge base of PPRuNe.

Getting back to NWI, since retirement it is now my local airport (although my then company did operate an aircraft from there some 15 years ago) and I use it regularly with its useful, but limited, number of destinations. I wholeheartedly agree with you on the subject of the Airport Development Fee and I consider it a drag on the airport's potential to attract new operators and routes. It has to be borne in mind though that the catchment for NWI is relatively small and it was really the demands of the oil and gas industry that gave it the basis upon which to develop more leisure oriented routes over the years. The "wonderful small airports" that you frequent no doubt have their own commercial advantages enabling them to achieve this; perhaps serving tourist resorts or wealthy communities and the like where revenues are sufficiently high. There are few small airports that I can think of which achieve a "wonderful" rating but there are a number which I have enjoyed using over the decades. Not many of them are in Europe however. I wonder if you have used EXT recently: now there is an airport that takes you straight back to the 1960s.

I'm not knocking your views in general but think that a little more realism is perhaps required.
Don't start him any further Expressflight, he has posted for years on the Norwich Thread under 2 names Jay Sata and then Mike Flynn with one tracked agenda, he will go back through your posts and come to conclusion, like my own which mostly have been spotterish which I agree with so of course that makes me a non pilot despite just recently qualifying and now flying out of Norwich each and everyday. Perhaps a picture of me doing that would satisfy him but then why should someone have to justify there credentials on a forum.

Your views are excellent despite being a non pilot and your opinion on the airport is certainly very good and I'm sure everyone would love to see the £10 finally go one day. As I do think that is the only thing stopping new operaters to the airport now.
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Old 1st Sep 2019, 10:32
  #157 (permalink)  
 
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As an occasional user of NWI over many years on the Manchester to Norwich route. Personally I've always liked Norwich Airport , small easy to use.
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Old 3rd Sep 2019, 19:32
  #158 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by NickBarnes View Post
Dear lord, I work for a airline out of Norwich after very recently qualifying after years of working within the industry in a office based role. But anyway I really can't be arsed and shouldn't really need to explain myself, but your constant bashing is beyond annoying, without consideration of people's lives and jobs that work from it. In whatever role. But anyway I can lower myself any lower to your level so shall leave it here, I can only imagine your someone who most people try to aviod.

However MDS does raise some very good points and I believe form what I hear in a few years a lot of it will be addressed for the good. And KLM engineering expansion is good news as they and like most people in the industry know that deal or no deal after brexit the world will continue to spin.
I post facts Nick.

There is no need to get personal with insults.

You suggest that you have recently qualified as a pilot?

I take it you are now a co pilot?

My posts on Norwich have never been about the flying op’s but address the abysmal ground service in the terminal and indeed outside.
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Old 3rd Sep 2019, 19:43
  #159 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by Mike Flynn View Post


I post facts Nick.

There is no need to get personal with insults.

You suggest that you have recently qualified as a pilot?

Is that correct?
Correct

I'm going to be honest but I'm ending any dialogue with you from now on, you have rubbed people up the wrong way for years and I accept you will continue to do so but you have always a right to your opinion, but I will not be releasing any further personal information to you about my life, thank you.

But I would say it would be good for you to come through the airport again, I think you will find it's a little bit different from a few years back.
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Old 3rd Sep 2019, 19:51
  #160 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by NickBarnes View Post
There's no hope in this world. I'm ending any dialogue with you from now on, you have rubbed people up the wrong way for years and I accept you will continue to do so and I will not be releasing any further personal information to you. thank you.
That’s good Nick if you have nothing constructive to add to this thread.

Google Skytrax or other sites to see how passengers assess Norwich.

Letters to the local Eastern Daily Press are frequent and mention issues such as queuing outside in freezing weather on arrival to clear customs.

Here is the text from a letter in the EDP yesterday.

“Recently, the boarding charge at Norwich Airport has again been in the news. As a traveller from there for the past 15 years, I have attempted to get information on where the money goes. I have written to two MPs for Norfolk; getting no response.

A friend of mine was told by someone at the airport that the runway had been upgraded — I would have thought that such expense would be covered by landing fees, etc.

To me, the worst aspect of the situation is that virtually nothing has been done to improve the lot of the passengers; who after all, are essential to the existence of the airport.

Surely a minor portion of the money raised could be spent on providing shelter for disembarking passengers?

Up to now up to 300 passengers are made to stand, as I have done, in driving rain, for over 30 minutes. The owners and administrators of Norwich Airport should be ashamed.”
Link here https://www.edp24.co.uk/features/why...-fee-1-6248392

Having read the above how do you justify this statement Nick

I would say it would be good for you to come through the airport again, I think you will find it's a little bit different from a few years back.
The so called development fee has not resulted in any passenger creature comforts or indeed an ILS on 09.

Hence the failure of aircraft to land on 09 when the vis is poor.
I am sure you now know about decision heights and diversions.

As for the ‘International ‘ tag that is totally dependent on KLM continuing to run the service to Amsterdam.

To q

I say again this was a great little local airport decades ago run by a joint local council group who sold out to a series of commercial operaters that has now been reduced to an old shed run by the Rigby group.

Last edited by Mike Flynn; 3rd Sep 2019 at 20:32.
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