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Old 28th Mar 2019, 14:16
  #1841 (permalink)  
 
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The IOM timings appear to match the current 3rd Jet Aiways frequency on BOM which they are dropping from S19 schedule.

where VS leasing these slots to Jet or have Jer sold them to raise cash?
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Old 28th Mar 2019, 14:25
  #1842 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by Cazza_fly View Post
A new daily Flybe connection between the Isle of Man Heathrow has been put on sale today.

Flights are daily and start as soon as 21st April ! Operated on Dash8-Q400

https://www.flybe.com/cheap-flights/isle-of-man

Seems quite a short lead time for bookings, but perhaps they've been working on inplementing it for some time?
Well, if Jet Airways needed to offload a slot at short notice because of their financial problems (whether leased or sold), I could see this as being the cheapest form of "slot sitting" possible at short notice. But (because of the late notice) it smells much more to me like a short-term babysitting exercise than a long-term LHR-IOM route (sorry!).
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Old 28th Mar 2019, 15:11
  #1843 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by Wycombe View Post
Who would've thought a few years ago that Flybe would be building a domestic network from LHR, which from the seasons change this Sunday will include EDI, ABZ, NQY, GCI and soon after IOM. Perhaps more to come once the Virgin/Stobart takeover kicks in?
Question is if these Cobalt (for GCI) and Jet Airways (IOM) slots will be available in winter as well? Or do new routes get preferential treatment when it comes to allocating unused slots? If not, quite surprising that BE has been able to snap up the slots for both routes, given that there will be long queue of airlines waiting for slots.

Btw, I am wondering if any serivces from IOM or GCI are sacrificed for the new LHR routes? Or is there so much slack in the schedules of the IOM/GCI based aicraft that BE was able to throw in an additional rotation to LHR?
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Old 28th Mar 2019, 16:09
  #1844 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by virginblue View Post
Question is if these Cobalt (for GCI) and Jet Airways (IOM) slots will be available in winter as well? Or do new routes get preferential treatment when it comes to allocating unused slots? If not, quite surprising that BE has been able to snap up the slots for both routes, given that there will be long queue of airlines waiting for slots.
Ok, so here are some of the elements.
  • Jet Airways is stopping 9W115/116 (DEL-LHR) from the start of the summer season, i.e. Sunday March 31.
  • Business Traveller magazine says "it is believed the slots for 9W115/116 were owned by Delta/Virgin Atlantic."
  • But ACL's slot trades website lists a slot transfer from Jet Airways to Delta, filed on 26 March. The actual slot swap request form is below. It seems that the slot is being transferred to Delta for a DTW (Detroit) flight... but on a 78-seater Q400 That'd be a long flight.
So the best theory I have is that Delta got the slots from Jet Airways last week (perhaps at shorter notice than expected given Jet's worsening financial troubles - or if they are originally Delta slots, perhaps Delta called them back rather than taking the risk of losing them due to Jet Airways failing and the slots not being operated under the 80/20 rule and being caught up in some sort of bankruptcy proceeding) and then Delta called in flybe to babysit them for the summer season (either because Delta didn't have a spare aircraft at short notice, or more likely because a long-haul flight typically needs many months of forward bookings to have a chance of profitability).

The slots need to be operated 80% of the time to keep them (80/20 rule).

The summer season is about 7 months (let's say 210 days) so 80% is 168 days.

They start the babysitting on 21 April because that makes approximately 189 days (90% of 210) so leaves a bit of leeway (10%) for other cancellations during the rest of the season, while also not flying with ~0% load factors for the first couple of weeks.

Other theories?


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Old 28th Mar 2019, 16:26
  #1845 (permalink)  
 
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Re FlyBe LHR - GCI service: Guernsey government is paying £825k to FlyBe to carry out a 7 month trial of the route which will operate daily. FlyBe has no GCI based aircraft anymore except the ATRs operated by BlueIslands on their own routes. The once a day return service (GCI-LHR-GCI) is to be operated in addition to current flights. Source of aircraft not yet known by me.
Pete

Last edited by cobopete; 28th Mar 2019 at 16:37.
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Old 28th Mar 2019, 16:46
  #1846 (permalink)  
 
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Cyrano has it spot on. It is a slot sitting exercise. The question is how long this (and the similar Guernsey exercise) both last. It looks as though the IOM-MAN service is being reduced to make way for this and on GCI, the BHX-JER-GCI schedule has been fairly aggressively changed to make downtime in GCI for the LHR rotation.
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Old 28th Mar 2019, 17:15
  #1847 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by Flightrider View Post
Cyrano has it spot on. It is a slot sitting exercise. The question is how long this (and the similar Guernsey exercise) both last. It looks as though the IOM-MAN service is being reduced to make way for this and on GCI, the BHX-JER-GCI schedule has been fairly aggressively changed to make downtime in GCI for the LHR rotation.
I have not looked at the IOM-Man service closely but they did announce the dropping of the 3rd Lpl daily
rotation a couple of weeks ago. Coincidence?
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Old 28th Mar 2019, 19:40
  #1848 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by cobopete View Post
Source of aircraft not yet known by me.
Pete

I've been told the aircraft routes BHX-GCI-LHR-GCI-BHX
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Old 28th Mar 2019, 21:23
  #1849 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by Jerbourg View Post
I've been told the aircraft routes BHX-GCI-LHR-GCI-BHX
The duty is BHX-JER-GCI-LHR-GCI-JER-BHX. A lovely 6 sector day for the BHX crews, ouch.
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Old 28th Mar 2019, 22:32
  #1850 (permalink)  
 
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Is 6 sectors bad ? I know that GCI-JER flight times will be shorter than the taxi at LHr and I’m aware of the paperwork etc time of such a flight.

But serious question. Was the ouch comment meant sarcastically or seriously ?


cs
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Old 29th Mar 2019, 01:34
  #1851 (permalink)  
 
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Re Cyrano's fascinating slot swap document. .
One wonders why it's worth having all those columns if the supplementary data is rubbish - DH4s to DTW etc. Would be far more entertaining to request a summary of what's actually happening (and for the edification of industry observers, the dosh changing hands if applicable). Still, if 9W really can turn a 77W in 5 mins they'll soon be back into mega profit!
I know this example may not involve cash, but does ACL make a processing charge (like stamp duty on a house or the Avios transfer fee)? Even a small percentage of recent transactions would soon add up...

Last edited by Max Tow; 29th Mar 2019 at 06:17.
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Old 29th Mar 2019, 07:52
  #1852 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by cornishsimon View Post
Is 6 sectors bad ? I know that GCI-JER flight times will be shorter than the taxi at LHr and Iím aware of the paperwork etc time of such a flight.

But serious question. Was the ouch comment meant sarcastically or seriously ?


cs
Seriously. A 6 sector day for a crew is usually a long day. Especially if disrupted on a W pattern.

Last edited by Jersey32D; 29th Mar 2019 at 08:41.
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Old 29th Mar 2019, 07:53
  #1853 (permalink)  
 
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6 sectors is tough, particularly when the weather is poor, as it can be around the islands. 6 sectors will shorten the allowed duty day and coupled with bad weather could lead to crewing problems
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Old 29th Mar 2019, 08:12
  #1854 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by cornishsimon View Post
Is 6 sectors bad ? I know that GCI-JER flight times will be shorter than the taxi at LHr and I’m aware of the paperwork etc time of such a flight.

But serious question. Was the ouch comment meant sarcastically or seriously ?


cs

It was meant seriously. For reasons you obviously do not understand CS.

Last edited by Set 1013; 29th Mar 2019 at 08:23. Reason: Typo
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Old 29th Mar 2019, 09:59
  #1855 (permalink)  
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The kids of today, no stamina. 6 sectors a day is great fun!
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Old 29th Mar 2019, 12:44
  #1856 (permalink)  
 
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My comments weren’t meant to insult.

Perhaps you guys could give some average timings for said 6 sector day. From arrival at BHX to walking back out of BHX at the end of the six sectors and then how that equates to allowable duty day ?


cs
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Old 29th Mar 2019, 17:55
  #1857 (permalink)  
 
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On that journey it would be approx a 9 hour from clocking on to clocking out. From memory I think a 6 sector day starting at a reasonable hour is 11 hours max (I'm sure someone will correct me if I've made an error!)
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Old 30th Mar 2019, 15:20
  #1858 (permalink)  
 
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GCI - LHR
As has been discussed, the new GCI-LHR route will be operated by a BHX based DH8D. This aircraft will operate 6x sectors: BHX-JER-GCI-LHR-GCI-JER-BHX.
These 6x sectors will take just under 9 hours from blocks off in BHX at 12:15 to blocks on in BHX at 20:50 - (this info is for a Monday in April).
There will be 25 minutes turnarounds in GCI and JER and 1hr 35 scheduled on the ground in LHR.

Heres a typical schedule:

dep BHX 12:15
arr JER 13:25 // dep JER 13:50
arr GCI 14:15 // dep GCI 14:40
arr LHR 15:45 // dep LHR 17:20
arr GCI 18:25 // dep GCI 18:50
arr JER 19:15 // dep JER 19:40
arr BHX 20:50
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Old 30th Mar 2019, 18:05
  #1859 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by Severn View Post
GCI - LHR
As has been discussed, the new GCI-LHR route will be operated by a BHX based DH8D. This aircraft will operate 6x sectors: BHX-JER-GCI-LHR-GCI-JER-BHX.
These 6x sectors will take just under 9 hours from blocks off in BHX at 12:15 to blocks on in BHX at 20:50 - (this info is for a Monday in April).
There will be 25 minutes turnarounds in GCI and JER and 1hr 35 scheduled on the ground in LHR.

Heres a typical schedule:

dep BHX 12:15
arr JER 13:25 // dep JER 13:50
arr GCI 14:15 // dep GCI 14:40
arr LHR 15:45 // dep LHR 17:20
arr GCI 18:25 // dep GCI 18:50
arr JER 19:15 // dep JER 19:40
arr BHX 20:50
That is cutting it quite fine given the factors involved with channel islands fog and LHR congestion. With a one hour report and 15 minutes after duty to factor in, it doesn't leave that much wiggle room.

Last edited by TartinTon; 30th Mar 2019 at 18:06. Reason: Kan't speel
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Old 30th Mar 2019, 22:36
  #1860 (permalink)  
 
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Surely if things were going amiss it would be easy-ish to get a standby crew from BHX or even SOU into LHR in decent time to pick things up?
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