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Old 20th Feb 2020, 12:58
  #3321 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by Atlantic Explorer
Why the whole network though? The whole network is not “lifeline” routes.
Indeed this is the whole argument, if it comes down to only saving those, which routes are classed as lifeline? That also being my point, some of the smaller airports cannot deal with Easy/Ryanair equipment so maybe other airlines would also need to step in.
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Old 20th Feb 2020, 13:02
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LM are probably waiting in the wings, a bit like they did with BM. I know LM/BM had the same owners but maybe we'll see LM step in?
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Old 20th Feb 2020, 13:12
  #3323 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by GAZMO
Article from this morning Belfast press.
Currently flybe BHD to SOU is twice daily on dash aircraft so could easily fill one daily A319

https://www.belfasttelegraph.co.uk/b...-38972292.html
Twice daily on a Dash doesn’t equate to success on a daily Airbus. Think about it. Twice daily.

Twice daily (in this context) means you can get there and back in a day. It gives choice of departure or return. 120 people in two Dashes doesn’t mean 120 in the Airbus because X number will travel from elsewhere because the times don’t suit them. Or, the Airbus will full but of low-yielding leisure traffic which doesn’t have the same economic benefits.
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Old 20th Feb 2020, 13:34
  #3324 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by AirportPlanner1
Twice daily on a Dash doesn’t equate to success on a daily Airbus. Think about it. Twice daily.

Twice daily (in this context) means you can get there and back in a day. It gives choice of departure or return. 120 people in two Dashes doesn’t mean 120 in the Airbus because X number will travel from elsewhere because the times don’t suit them. Or, the Airbus will full but of low-yielding leisure traffic which doesn’t have the same economic benefits.



Great for the punters , flying on a nice airbus instead of one of those dreadful turkey props....
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Old 20th Feb 2020, 13:48
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Originally Posted by VHF4
Great for the punters , flying on a nice airbus instead of one of those dreadful turkey props....
Nothing wrong with ththe turbprops and they are far more suitable for regional routes than Easyjets fleets. And the likelihood of Easyjet taking over any of Flybes regional routes especially to the south coast is extremely slim imho.
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Old 20th Feb 2020, 13:58
  #3326 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by PDXCWL45
Nothing wrong with ththe turbprops and they are far more suitable for regional routes than Easyjets fleets. And the likelihood of Easyjet taking over any of Flybes regional routes especially to the south coast is extremely slim imho.
but Easyjet have jumped onto the BHX to GLA and EDI routes. Both double daily to serve a day return and catch first and last wave departures.
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Old 20th Feb 2020, 14:07
  #3327 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by Atlantic Explorer
Why the whole network though? The whole network is not “lifeline” routes. The good people of SOU would have to travel a little further to get to an airport and where they need to go.

Im not aware of any lifeline routes out of several of the BE bases.
what a truly ridiculous comment. Circa 2 million people are just flying from SOU as a hobby? Newsflash for you, demand equals supply. The bulk of SOU’s customer base is for business and regional connectivity. There have never been more than a couple of bucket and spade routes and now there are none. So your comment may perhaps be valid if it was an airports like BOH, DSA etc that historically just caters for holidaymakers but with SOU people want and need to fly from there. It’s the cruise capital of Northern Europe which equates to 1.8 million passengers annually alone. Not to mention the 40,000 plus students that largely come from abroad, the fact the largest oil refinery in the country is down the road, all the local military bases and huge naval base in Portsmouth, the second largest container terminal in the country, the boat show which is the biggest in Europe, the new forest national park etc etc etc. Southampton has and always be a transient place and therefore very much requires an airport to cater for the huge amount of people that pass through it.

I cannot understand why people cannot Appreciate that BE is a unique case in that it is pretty much like all the train operators in this country combined and therefore is hugely important for this country. It’s a bit rich of BA to throw their toys out of the pram when they abandoned the regions years ago and only compete with BE on a couple of routes out of LHR where they have a monopoly. Yes all airlines play a part but this is about regional connectivity, and no other airline comes close to what BE provide. As another poster has pointed out, other operators with larger aircraft will reduce the frequency making a lot of short trips impossible from local airports. BE needs to survive but of course they must pay every penny back.
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Old 20th Feb 2020, 14:15
  #3328 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by PDXCWL45
Nothing wrong with ththe turbprops and they are far more suitable for regional routes than Easyjets fleets. And the likelihood of Easyjet taking over any of Flybes regional routes especially to the south coast is extremely slim imho.
There great if you want a 1940,s flying experience complete with the unreliability , the noise, the vibration and the excitement of not quite knowing if the landing gear is going to collapse upon touchdown....
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Old 20th Feb 2020, 14:19
  #3329 (permalink)  
 
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Perhaps worth mentioning that the major trunk routes that Flybe currently operate are capable of supporting a 150+ seat aircraft on a double daily basis - simply because Flybe already serve the route 4 or more time a day already. Remember that to sustain a 10x per week route with an A319 on an LCC, you need 140k pax per year absolute minimum, with an A320 or 738, it's even more.

From Southampton, I'm sure Edinburgh, Glasgow, Manchester and Jersey would be taken up quickly and KLM would be very interested in reopening the Amsterdam route. Some of the other thinner routes might be handled a bit differently - perhaps Newcastle will continue but maybe demand exists for only a 1x daily on an A320, while Southampton-Leeds might disappear entirely

From Exeter, a route to Manchester should continue either 1x or 2x daily, but would routes to other UK cities really interest Easyjet/Ryanair without PSO money being involved ?

Last edited by davidjohnson6; 20th Feb 2020 at 14:32.
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Old 20th Feb 2020, 14:23
  #3330 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by Rivet Joint
what a truly ridiculous comment. Circa 2 million people are just flying from SOU as a hobby? Newsflash for you, demand equals supply. The bulk of SOU’s customer base is for business and regional connectivity. There have never been more than a couple of bucket and spade routes and now there are none. So your comment may perhaps be valid if it was an airports like BOH, DSA etc that historically just caters for holidaymakers but with SOU people want and need to fly from there. It’s the cruise capital of Northern Europe which equates to 1.8 million passengers annually alone. Not to mention the 40,000 plus students that largely come from abroad, the fact the largest oil refinery in the country is down the road, all the local military bases and huge naval base in Portsmouth, the second largest container terminal in the country, the boat show which is the biggest in Europe, the new forest national park etc etc etc. Southampton has and always be a transient place and therefore very much requires an airport to cater for the huge amount of people that pass through it.

I cannot understand why people cannot Appreciate that BE is a unique case in that it is pretty much like all the train operators in this country combined and therefore is hugely important for this country. It’s a bit rich of BA to throw their toys out of the pram when they abandoned the regions years ago and only compete with BE on a couple of routes out of LHR where they have a monopoly. Yes all airlines play a part but this is about regional connectivity, and no other airline comes close to what BE provide. As another poster has pointed out, other operators with larger aircraft will reduce the frequency making a lot of short trips impossible from local airports. BE needs to survive but of course they must pay every penny back.
You’ve missed my point entirely. None of those routes you describe are “Lifeline” routes. They’re beneficial to local population and economy, yes, but not comparable to say an island route where the only other option is a long ferry trip.

If BE fail, then if those routes out of SOU are as important and profitable as you say, then another operator will come in and provide the service. At the end of the day, market forces apply and it’s a business which has clearly been failing for years. As has been done to death here over the last few weeks, the owners of BE have no shortage of cash, and are very clearly unwilling to inject that cash into the business, so I see no justification for the taxpayer to wade in to prop up a failed business model.
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Old 20th Feb 2020, 14:35
  #3331 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by VHF4
There great if you want a 1940,s flying experience complete with the unreliability , the noise, the vibration and the excitement of not quite knowing if the landing gear is going to collapse upon touchdown....
Grow up. It's a choice of the q400 or nothing for the majority of the routes BE operate. I will take the q400 over nothing as would anyone else with any sense.

As for the landing gear issues, have any been fatal? Do landing gear issues happen with other aircraft?

The q400 is built like a tank and lives a very hard life with numerous short stop and goes throughout the day. Lets also not forget that BE's jet experiment has brought them to their knees.
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Old 20th Feb 2020, 14:49
  #3332 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by Rivet Joint
Grow up. It's a choice of the q400 or nothing for the majority of the routes BE operate. I will take the q400 over nothing as would anyone else with any sense.

As for the landing gear issues, have any been fatal? Do landing gear issues happen with other aircraft?

The q400 is built like a tank and lives a very hard life with numerous short stop and goes throughout the day. Lets also not forget that BE's jet experiment has brought them to their knees.


Sadly the landing gear on the Q is anything but tank like and is of a very poor design which has resulted in far more than it’s fair share of failures. ....


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Old 20th Feb 2020, 14:53
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Originally Posted by Atlantic Explorer
You’ve missed my point entirely. None of those routes you describe are “Lifeline” routes. They’re beneficial to local population and economy, yes, but not comparable to say an island route where the only other option is a long ferry trip.

If BE fail, then if those routes out of SOU are as important and profitable as you say, then another operator will come in and provide the service. At the end of the day, market forces apply and it’s a business which has clearly been failing for years. As has been done to death here over the last few weeks, the owners of BE have no shortage of cash, and are very clearly unwilling to inject that cash into the business, so I see no justification for the taxpayer to wade in to prop up a failed business model.
No, I got your point. But couldn't believe you were seriously suggesting that these "lifeline" routes, i.e. largely empty planes being flown to small villages are more important to the country than routes that form its aviation backbone.

There isn't another operator that is a like for like. What other regional airlines are there in this country? T3 and LM? Both of which operate small jets that cost a fortune to operate and warrant massive fares as a result. I cannot imagine many would pay 3 or 4 times as much as they would with BE. The low cost operators would not be able to justify the frequency, which most regional trips demand. You could not justify the South of England only having one or two trains to the north a day, nor can you with flights. The only solution I can think of is the likes of U2 taking on all the q400s and their crew, and cherry picking the key routes and retaining the frequency.

BE has been badly managed, you only have to look at that awful woman who was in charge recently, who was more concerned about there being more female COs in the aviation industry and painting BEs planes in yet another unnecessary livery than turning the business around. Its a shame bankruptcy protection does not exist in this country, many US airlines have used this to trim the fat and come back as a leaner operation.
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Old 20th Feb 2020, 15:05
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Bankruptcy protection is exactly what Flybe are angling for in the form of tax payers handouts and tax breaks to protect a company who should have turned turtle yonks ago
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Old 20th Feb 2020, 15:15
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If Flybe does fold and i sincerely hope they dont what is to stop Virgin/Connect taking over the profitable parts of the Flybe network together with some of their Q400s. As stated previously at least some Flybe routes have already got VS codeshare flight numbers, as have the Stobart Air operated ATR services.
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Old 20th Feb 2020, 15:31
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Please recite tje Flybe landing gear incidents and how many passengers have been injured
We are once again going back to esrlu Q400 operations
Flybe, for a domestic carrier are constantly receiving praise for their on time performance.
As i've said before, i knew , liked and respected Jack Walker and get sick of this continued denigration of the airline.
They have been doing their best to get over the disatrous decisions of Jim French.
I've also said before that Saad Jammad was doing a good job. ,They then got rid of him and replaced him with a CEO renowned for her failings.
The airline was slowly recovering under Hammad
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Old 20th Feb 2020, 16:07
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The core business/connecting routes from SOU ie Belfast, Manchester, Edinburgh, Glasgow, Paris & Jersey would be snapped up rapidly by EZY with double daily services, Dublin most likely by Air Lingus Regional and maybe KLM would come back in for Amsterdam, of that I have no doubt!
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Old 20th Feb 2020, 16:27
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Isn’t the runway at SOU a bit tight for EZY (hence the current application to extend it)?
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Old 20th Feb 2020, 16:28
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Originally Posted by stewyb
The core business/connecting routes from SOU ie Belfast, Manchester, Edinburgh, Glasgow, Paris & Jersey would be snapped up rapidly by EZY with double daily services, Dublin most likely by Air Lingus Regional and maybe KLM would come back in for Amsterdam, of that I have no doubt!

Doubtless if the likes of easy were operating these routes pax figures would increase as many people simply won’t fly on the turkey props such is their reputation , Start using decent aircraft such as the 320 and things would improve by a good margin



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Old 20th Feb 2020, 16:34
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VHF4 you really seem to have a downer on the Dash. If you're either a businessman or a commuter then you will be happy to use it to reach your destination. The A320 and B737 are great for moving larger numbers more cheaply - as per LCC - but not where a route only handles 40-50 passengers at a time. Talking of time, it's time you got realistic.
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