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Old 11th Jan 2019, 11:21
  #1321 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by 840
So with Stobart absorbed into this new entity, what happens to those aircraft flying branded as Aer Lingus Regional?

If that arrangement is allowed to expire, it shouldn't make a massive difference to the Cork routes, other than losing the Aer Lingus sales platform in Ireland; they are largely point-to-point thin routes. For the Dublin routes, feeding Aer Lingus long-haul is part of the bread and butter. Aer Lingus certainly won't want to lose the feed, but it may not match what Virgin want. Working things through, Delta will fundamentally own 15% of the new company and they aren't going to be happy feeding a transatlantic competitor.
Another question will be if IAG are happy to let a competitor feed its hub in DUB?

As for fleet reductions, I expect that to be achieved in the form of ditching the E195's and maybe some of the Q400's. Can't see the E175's going and there's 4 more on the way soon.
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Old 11th Jan 2019, 12:08
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. Big cuts to UK regional flying on the way, I fear
Because it is so difficult to make money out of it- that's why BA gave up/never showed an interest. And the public have come to expect low fares- look at how they winge about rail.

Loganair/BMI may pick up any routes which can turn a profit. Aurigny are essentially state owned and might fill in some GCIs.
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Old 11th Jan 2019, 12:28
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This deal could give MAN the hub carrier it has lacked, with full integration of the UK's most extensive domestic air network, a reasonable near-Continent coverage and an emerging USA offer. They'll need to make 'Flybe' at T3 link smoothly with Virgin at T2, though.
In fairness, I think easyJet have revolutionised parts of UK regional flying for the better. What is tricky is matching the high frequency business wants with the lower fares the market will support, hence you might get only one A319 per day getting you into London just before midnight. It's the secondary markets to secondar markets that really struggle IMHO.
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Old 11th Jan 2019, 16:04
  #1324 (permalink)  
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There's something very fishy going on here. It seems that Flybe have just sold the family silver, 5 minutes before the market closed and at twice the market capitalisation. Have Branson and Stobart just been screwed over ?


RNS Number : 9260M

Flybe Group PLC
11 January 2019

Flybe Group PLC ("Flybe" or the "Group")

Slot Transaction at Gatwick Airport

Flybe Group plc announces that today Flybe Limited, a wholly-owned subsidiary, signed an agreement with Vueling Airlines S.A. (the "Agreement") to receive a total of £4,500,000 (four-and-a-half-million pounds) in respect of slots at London Gatwick Airport. The funds will be paid in two tranches, being receivable in the next few days in respect of slots to be used during the Summer Season in 2019 and for subsequent Summer Seasons. The remainder is due in June 2019 in respect of slots to be used during the Winter Season in 2019/20 and subsequent Winter Seasons.
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Old 11th Jan 2019, 16:34
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Flybe had already announced they were pulling out of Gatwick - Newquay flights to operate to Heathrow this year. A slot sale was a logical result of this - timing may not have been in their control.
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Old 11th Jan 2019, 17:28
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The question being what exactly can VS do to adjust at Heathrow - there isnít as much room to play around with there. The key to me seems to be Manchester - and even if they move assets from Gatwick to strengthen the case for a flyBe feeder. I fear for the outlying smaller bases (Norwich, Cardiff, Doncaster and even Birmingham), the more leisure orientated routes seem to be the most logical to go first.

116D, where those 195ís end up will be interesting given some of them were being farmed off to Stobart!
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Old 11th Jan 2019, 17:35
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Originally Posted by toledoashley
The question being what exactly can VS do to adjust at Heathrow - there isnít as much room to play around with there. The key to me seems to be Manchester - and even if they move assets from Gatwick to strengthen the case for a flyBe feeder. I fear for the outlying smaller bases (Norwich, Cardiff, Doncaster and even Birmingham), the more leisure orientated routes seem to be the most logical to go first.

116D, where those 195ís end up will be interesting given some of them were being farmed off to Stobart!
Although I agree that some unprofitable regional routes may see the chop, I can't see why Stobart were brought in as partners if the regional routes were to be dropped. If this was purely about connecting into VS (And partner airlines), why wouldn't VS go it alone without Stobart? They could let the current BE team run things whilst pulling the strings to make the changes they want.
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Old 11th Jan 2019, 17:51
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Originally Posted by caaardiff
Although I agree that some unprofitable regional routes may see the chop, I can't see why Stobart were brought in as partners if the regional routes were to be dropped. If this was purely about connecting into VS (And partner airlines), why wouldn't VS go it alone without Stobart? They could let the current BE team run things whilst pulling the strings to make the changes they want.
virgin are very clever at not doing things alone. There will always be another partner behind the brand. Take the trains. 51 virgin 49 stagecoach, Atlantic is the same with DL soon to be less etc.
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Old 11th Jan 2019, 18:18
  #1329 (permalink)  
 
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Caardiff, Whatever happens there are clearly going to be substantial changes.

Somebody has been very busy registering FlyVe, FlyV and FlyVirgin in November - https://beta.companieshouse.gov.uk/company/11695379

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Old 11th Jan 2019, 19:17
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Originally Posted by toledoashley
Caardiff, Whatever happens there are clearly going to be substantial changes.

Somebody has been very busy registering FlyVe, FlyV and FlyVirgin in November - https://beta.companieshouse.gov.uk/company/11695379

Connect Airways registered too
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Old 11th Jan 2019, 19:28
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Originally Posted by toledoashley
Caardiff, Whatever happens there are clearly going to be substantial changes.

Somebody has been very busy registering FlyVe, FlyV and FlyVirgin in November - https://beta.companieshouse.gov.uk/company/11695379
Someone registering company names thinking they can sell them on, just like cybersquatting on web pages.
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Old 11th Jan 2019, 19:29
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Will be very interesting to see how this all pans out in reality.

My personal view - MAN and LHR focus for VS, SEN for Stobart

Other bases will see significant pruning, I can see all European flights going apart from CDG and AMS (AF/KL/DL feed) - why would VS be interested in BHX-BOD or CWL-FCO (just two of many examples)

SOU, BHX and BHD might keep some domestic routes?

I can also see a number of bases closing.completely

Tough times ahead, good luck to all those who have worked so hard at BE for many years, as an ex-employee the people make the airline, best bunch I have ever worked with.
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Old 11th Jan 2019, 19:31
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Originally Posted by Albert Hall
Isn't there a slightly more fundamental problem here - by far the largest part of Stobart Air's operation is as an Aer Lingus Regional franchise. Will Aer Lingus and IAG really tolerate their largest feed partner at Dublin being majority-owned by Virgin Atlantic? The Flybe SAS ATR operation is a sideshow as Nordica could take that on, but the EI - Stobart - Virgin - Flybe dynamic is strange. I don't get that angle at all.
I don't think IAG will care. For example, you can credit Aer Lingus flights to Star Alliance via United. You can earn BA Avios and Tier Points on Emirates via QF etc.

IAG will be solely concerned with "Does this make money for us?"
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Old 11th Jan 2019, 20:08
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Yes agree changes ahead in network but for airports like newcastle it will be a case of if it makes a profit the route stays if not the route is gone and it will be the same for all routes they will look at them all

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Old 11th Jan 2019, 20:18
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Originally Posted by GayFriendly
Will be very interesting to see how this all pans out in reality.

My personal view - MAN and LHR focus for VS, SEN for Stobart

Other bases will see significant pruning, I can see all European flights going apart from CDG and AMS (AF/KL/DL feed) - why would VS be interested in BHX-BOD or CWL-FCO (just two of many examples)

SOU, BHX and BHD might keep some domestic routes?

I can also see a number of bases closing.completely

Tough times ahead, good luck to all those who have worked so hard at BE for many years, as an ex-employee the people make the airline, best bunch I have ever worked with.
For bases like Cardiff it'll be a case of whether the jets stay or not in whether routes like Rome stay. Italy load factor wise does decently out of Cardiff so in general does Faro. I suppose it will be about what sort of deal the airport can come up with to keep the jets and those European routes. I don't think the base will be closed and i think there will be a lot less trimming then many people on here think or may even want to happen but only time will tell!
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Old 11th Jan 2019, 20:22
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For newcastle some of the flights are operated by Eastern so wonder what will happen there going forward
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Old 11th Jan 2019, 21:53
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If the deal goes through, which I am sure probably will, I wonder what will happen to the current senior management at flybe……...
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Old 11th Jan 2019, 22:43
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Originally Posted by fjencl
If the deal goes through, which I am sure probably will, I wonder what will happen to the current senior management at flybeÖÖ...
.................bye, bye
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Old 11th Jan 2019, 22:47
  #1339 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by B Fraser
There's something very fishy going on here. It seems that Flybe have just sold the family silver, 5 minutes before the market closed and at twice the market capitalisation. Have Branson and Stobart just been screwed over ?


RNS Number : 9260M

Flybe Group PLC
11 January 2019

Flybe Group PLC ("Flybe" or the "Group")

Slot Transaction at Gatwick Airport

Flybe Group plc announces that today Flybe Limited, a wholly-owned subsidiary, signed an agreement with Vueling Airlines S.A. (the "Agreement") to receive a total of £4,500,000 (four-and-a-half-million pounds) in respect of slots at London Gatwick Airport. The funds will be paid in two tranches, being receivable in the next few days in respect of slots to be used during the Summer Season in 2019 and for subsequent Summer Seasons. The remainder is due in June 2019 in respect of slots to be used during the Winter Season in 2019/20 and subsequent Winter Seasons.
If you are alleging what I think you are, the FCA insider trading investigation team are particularly hot on monitoring trades. You can be certain every angle is being monitored right now.
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Old 11th Jan 2019, 23:59
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Two thoughts.
1. What do people think that the Virgin brand brings to any enterprise in 2019? To me it's redolent of a generation ago. No-one would choose it as a brand name now. As I see it, Branson's involvement with the businesses is limited to collecting the license fees for using the name.

2. Clearly Virgin is interested the feed into its longhaul network at LHR. I would suggest that the feed into MAN is less important because, with the exception of the periphery (NQY, ABZ, INV) access by road, coach or train is the norm.

AndThe strength and weakness of the current Flybe network is that it is trying to fill two roles. From Scotland in particular, but also from NQY, it serves business markets for journeys which in many cases cannot be carried out as a day trip in any other way. The classic example of this would be EDI to SOU. And that journey is sufficiently awkward that it will also attract non-business traffic. However business traffic falls away around holiday periods, and Flybe has sustained its SOU base by using these UK services to feed into a network of flights serving secondary airports, particularly in France.
This tapping in to different markets is a strength, but it seems to have resulted in a lack of focus. And as Ryanair serve more destinations directly, Flybe's summer holiday business must suffer.
This domestic network is important, and can be substantial (EZY fly several times a day between EDI and BRS), but it is of no interest to Virgin.
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