Heathrow-2
Another three year delay!
https://www.independent.co.uk/travel...-a9254176.html
Y’all may well be right.
https://www.independent.co.uk/travel...-a9254176.html
Y’all may well be right.
No promises by anyone were ever made on LHR R3 - All hot air and bluster - The Indy article is misleading.
R3 will not happen in our lifetime., if ever...My Tuppence.
R3 will not happen in our lifetime., if ever...My Tuppence.
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I think views on climate change mean that there will be no extra runway capacity in the London area. This may make a Manston revival more likely. I suspect that for Europe at least demand for air travel may now have peaked and there will be little further growth, but probably not much of a downturn either other than perhaps for domestic routes.
Hardly RIP - another delay............
Heathrow has said its project to build a third runway has been delayed by "at least 12 months" after the aviation regulator rejected its spending plans. The Civil Aviation Authority (CAA) has refused Heathrow's request to lift spending from £650m to £2.4bn before it even gets planning consent. The CAA is concerned passengers will end up shouldering the cost if Heathrow does not win permission to expand.
The airport now expects to complete a third runway between 2028 and 2029.
In a consultation published by the CAA, it said "the best approach in the interest of consumers" is to limit certain early construction costs to £1.6bn. The consultation also said an assessment by an independent fund surveyor of Heathrow's plan to open a new runway by 2026 was an "aggressive schedule" which would require "maximum activity" even before the airport knew whether it had been granted a development consent order.
Paul Smith, group director of consumers and markets at the CAA, said: "We believe that more runway capacity at Heathrow will benefit air passengers and cargo owners. "Its timely delivery is required to prevent future consumers experiencing higher airfares, reduced choice and lower service quality. However, we have also been clear that timeliness is not the only factor that is important to consumers. Passengers cannot be expected to bear the risk of Heathrow Airport Limited spending too much in the early phases of development, should planning permission not be granted."
The CAA has approved Heathrow's proposal to increase its spending on planning costs from £265m to £500m. Heathrow said the CAA's announcement was "an important milestone" in the expansion of the airport.
A spokesman added: "We will now review the detail to ensure it will unlock the initial £1.5bn to £2bn of private investment over the next two years at no cost to the taxpayer. While this is a step forward, the CAA has delayed the project timetable by at least 12 months. We now expect to complete the third runway between early 2028 and late 2029."
Heathrow has said its project to build a third runway has been delayed by "at least 12 months" after the aviation regulator rejected its spending plans. The Civil Aviation Authority (CAA) has refused Heathrow's request to lift spending from £650m to £2.4bn before it even gets planning consent. The CAA is concerned passengers will end up shouldering the cost if Heathrow does not win permission to expand.
The airport now expects to complete a third runway between 2028 and 2029.
In a consultation published by the CAA, it said "the best approach in the interest of consumers" is to limit certain early construction costs to £1.6bn. The consultation also said an assessment by an independent fund surveyor of Heathrow's plan to open a new runway by 2026 was an "aggressive schedule" which would require "maximum activity" even before the airport knew whether it had been granted a development consent order.
Paul Smith, group director of consumers and markets at the CAA, said: "We believe that more runway capacity at Heathrow will benefit air passengers and cargo owners. "Its timely delivery is required to prevent future consumers experiencing higher airfares, reduced choice and lower service quality. However, we have also been clear that timeliness is not the only factor that is important to consumers. Passengers cannot be expected to bear the risk of Heathrow Airport Limited spending too much in the early phases of development, should planning permission not be granted."
The CAA has approved Heathrow's proposal to increase its spending on planning costs from £265m to £500m. Heathrow said the CAA's announcement was "an important milestone" in the expansion of the airport.
A spokesman added: "We will now review the detail to ensure it will unlock the initial £1.5bn to £2bn of private investment over the next two years at no cost to the taxpayer. While this is a step forward, the CAA has delayed the project timetable by at least 12 months. We now expect to complete the third runway between early 2028 and late 2029."
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I think you are showing a breathtaking level of naivety if you genuinely think the government will stick by this project
The are already embroiled in arguments over HS2, they are also fighting fires with Crossrail where costs are completely out of control. There will be zero appetite to get involved in something as toxic as Heathrow.
As I said previous they can claim the high moral ground having granted planning permission for the runway, but can now walk away leaving the whole ball game in HALs court. If HAL claim they want "public money " I suspect they are unlikely to get a sympathetic public hearing, they will be even more marginalised given there are now 80 new "Northern Mps" who want a slice of the investment cake now, not 30 years hence.
One other point the timeframe isn't 12 months its actually 3 years. It was supposed to be 2026, it's now 10 years away.
more sleight of hand.
I don't get any sense that David Cummings has any appetite to sign a blank cheque on LHR. Infact given he is regarded as something of a rottweiler I wouldn't be suprised if he ships the whole of the DFT up to Yorkshire !
The are already embroiled in arguments over HS2, they are also fighting fires with Crossrail where costs are completely out of control. There will be zero appetite to get involved in something as toxic as Heathrow.
As I said previous they can claim the high moral ground having granted planning permission for the runway, but can now walk away leaving the whole ball game in HALs court. If HAL claim they want "public money " I suspect they are unlikely to get a sympathetic public hearing, they will be even more marginalised given there are now 80 new "Northern Mps" who want a slice of the investment cake now, not 30 years hence.
One other point the timeframe isn't 12 months its actually 3 years. It was supposed to be 2026, it's now 10 years away.
more sleight of hand.
I don't get any sense that David Cummings has any appetite to sign a blank cheque on LHR. Infact given he is regarded as something of a rottweiler I wouldn't be suprised if he ships the whole of the DFT up to Yorkshire !
Paul Smith, group director of consumers and markets at the CAA, said: "We believe that more runway capacity at Heathrow will benefit air passengers and cargo owners. "Its timely delivery is required to prevent future consumers experiencing higher airfares, reduced choice and lower service quality.
And it would be a tight schedule to have the 3rd runway working by 2028/9 if they started digging tomorrow and they are a LONG way away from being in that situation.
2035 is more likely IMHO......if it ever happens.
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https://www.ft.com/content/f5bdcb98-...5-4234e74b0ef3
I think Holland Kaye has totally lost the plot or been on the sherry. I know its the panto season but these figures are beyond belief.
Can anybody make sense of this as I think he has had a nervous breakdown.
Out of the blue we have a PR puff piece which mentions supporting infrastructure but inexplicably signals a total reliance on rail, mway infrastructure appears to have been brushed aside ?
But with regards to rail even the figures of £3bn are by any stretch woefully inadequate for all the extensions tunneling, platforms and stations.
You will be lucky to get a signal box for £3bn !
As for timescales these are equally absurd, its 5 years AFTER the RW opens.
There is not a cat in hell's chance of optimising the benefits of the extra capacity on day1 of runway opening if you cannot then increase traffic viz viz via supporting infrastructure?
As for road and the mega re design of the M25, well a magic wand appears to have made this necessity totally disappear
as indeed has the cost.
Bizarre.
I think Holland Kaye has totally lost the plot or been on the sherry. I know its the panto season but these figures are beyond belief.
Can anybody make sense of this as I think he has had a nervous breakdown.
Out of the blue we have a PR puff piece which mentions supporting infrastructure but inexplicably signals a total reliance on rail, mway infrastructure appears to have been brushed aside ?
But with regards to rail even the figures of £3bn are by any stretch woefully inadequate for all the extensions tunneling, platforms and stations.
You will be lucky to get a signal box for £3bn !
As for timescales these are equally absurd, its 5 years AFTER the RW opens.
There is not a cat in hell's chance of optimising the benefits of the extra capacity on day1 of runway opening if you cannot then increase traffic viz viz via supporting infrastructure?
As for road and the mega re design of the M25, well a magic wand appears to have made this necessity totally disappear
as indeed has the cost.
Bizarre.
Last edited by Navpi; 23rd Dec 2019 at 09:44.
Some highlights:
-Heathrow’s fee per person is already one of the highest in the world
-But John Holland-Kaye, chief executive officer at Heathrow, said the rise in airport charges was “pretty insignificant in the grand scheme of things”
-On Thursday, the aviation regulator rejected Heathrow’s proposal to more than quadruple certain early construction-related spending
from the comments:
mostly rehashing the old arguments about the wrong runway in the wrong place with a bit of added no one will fly any more because of Brexit or global warming
Heathrow - our flagship state owned airport
Ferrovial 25%
Qatar Holding 20%
Caisse de dépôt et placement du Québec 12.62%
Government of Singapore Investment Corporation 11.20%
Alinda Capital 11.18%
China Investment Corporation 10%
Universities Superannuation Scheme 10%
-Heathrow’s fee per person is already one of the highest in the world
-But John Holland-Kaye, chief executive officer at Heathrow, said the rise in airport charges was “pretty insignificant in the grand scheme of things”
-On Thursday, the aviation regulator rejected Heathrow’s proposal to more than quadruple certain early construction-related spending
from the comments:
mostly rehashing the old arguments about the wrong runway in the wrong place with a bit of added no one will fly any more because of Brexit or global warming
Heathrow - our flagship state owned airport
Ferrovial 25%
Qatar Holding 20%
Caisse de dépôt et placement du Québec 12.62%
Government of Singapore Investment Corporation 11.20%
Alinda Capital 11.18%
China Investment Corporation 10%
Universities Superannuation Scheme 10%
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The FT have made their link available.
credit FT
As requested.
No mention of road?
Heathrow Airport has for the first time laid out detailed costings for its contentious third runway expansion, including an option to spend an additional £3bn over the first 15 years to improve rail links and passenger service.
The UK’s busiest airport ;has outlined two options as part of its initial business plan which it will submit this week to the Civil Aviation Authority. The first plan focuses on savings and would allow the runway to open more quickly in 2028, while the second prioritises service and would require additional investment, delaying the runway opening for a further year.
However, regardless of which option is chosen, airport charges are set to rise, an additional burden likely to face strong opposition from Heathrow’s airline customers. These fees are paid by airlines which then decide how much to pass on to passengers in the form of higher ticket prices. Heathrow’s fee per person is already one of the highest in the world — and the government has pledged that Heathrow should “keep airport charges as close as possible to current levels”.
But John Holland-Kaye, chief executive officer at Heathrow, said the rise in airport charges was “pretty insignificant in the grand scheme of things” compared to the cut in air fares it believes will result from increased competition following Heathrow’s expansion. In its initial business plan, the airport estimates average ticket savings of between £21 to £142, depending on which scheme is chosen.
“Most significantly we show how this will be a real prize for consumers in bringing down the cost of flights. Our airport charges are going up potentially by less than 10 per cent; for us that’s a fantastic achievement,” he said.
Under the first plan, charges would rise from £21.75, based on prices in 2014 when Heathrow was first chosen as the preferred expansion scheme, to £23.81, a rise of about 10 per cent. Under its second plan which prioritises service, airport charges would rise more steeply to £27.19, increasing by about 25 per cent.
The second, more expensive, option would see Heathrow invest an additional £500m every five years on passenger service, such as upgraded passenger lounges and faster delivery of digital service, as well as £750m investment each in western and southern rail links.
The submission of Heathrow’s initial business plan comes just days after the airport said the opening of its third runway could be delayed by up to three years after the CAA said it was minded to approve only just over half the amount London’s busiest airport wanted to spend on its project ahead of final planning approval. Heathrow had originally planned to open its third runway in 2026.
On Thursday, the aviation regulator rejected Heathrow’s proposal to more than quadruple certain early construction-related spending to £2.8bn because of the risk the costs would be passed on to passengers if the project is eventually cancelled. The CAA said its preference was for spending to increase to £1.6bn.
IAG, the owner of British Airways and Heathrow’s biggest customer, has consistently said it will not pay excessive costs. IAG said: “The third runway was approved by the secretary of state for transport based on customer charges remaining at current levels. Yet Heathrow is already talking about charges going up — they just can’t be trusted.”
Heathrow said it had no preference for either of its two plans, noting that it will hold discussions with key stakeholders such as the CAA, airlines and consumers over the next six months before publishing its final business plan. The CAA will be responsible for scrutinising Heathrow’s spending and for agreeing the new passenger charges.
___________________________________________
credit FT
As requested.
No mention of road?
Heathrow Airport has for the first time laid out detailed costings for its contentious third runway expansion, including an option to spend an additional £3bn over the first 15 years to improve rail links and passenger service.
The UK’s busiest airport ;has outlined two options as part of its initial business plan which it will submit this week to the Civil Aviation Authority. The first plan focuses on savings and would allow the runway to open more quickly in 2028, while the second prioritises service and would require additional investment, delaying the runway opening for a further year.
However, regardless of which option is chosen, airport charges are set to rise, an additional burden likely to face strong opposition from Heathrow’s airline customers. These fees are paid by airlines which then decide how much to pass on to passengers in the form of higher ticket prices. Heathrow’s fee per person is already one of the highest in the world — and the government has pledged that Heathrow should “keep airport charges as close as possible to current levels”.
But John Holland-Kaye, chief executive officer at Heathrow, said the rise in airport charges was “pretty insignificant in the grand scheme of things” compared to the cut in air fares it believes will result from increased competition following Heathrow’s expansion. In its initial business plan, the airport estimates average ticket savings of between £21 to £142, depending on which scheme is chosen.
“Most significantly we show how this will be a real prize for consumers in bringing down the cost of flights. Our airport charges are going up potentially by less than 10 per cent; for us that’s a fantastic achievement,” he said.
Under the first plan, charges would rise from £21.75, based on prices in 2014 when Heathrow was first chosen as the preferred expansion scheme, to £23.81, a rise of about 10 per cent. Under its second plan which prioritises service, airport charges would rise more steeply to £27.19, increasing by about 25 per cent.
The second, more expensive, option would see Heathrow invest an additional £500m every five years on passenger service, such as upgraded passenger lounges and faster delivery of digital service, as well as £750m investment each in western and southern rail links.
The submission of Heathrow’s initial business plan comes just days after the airport said the opening of its third runway could be delayed by up to three years after the CAA said it was minded to approve only just over half the amount London’s busiest airport wanted to spend on its project ahead of final planning approval. Heathrow had originally planned to open its third runway in 2026.
On Thursday, the aviation regulator rejected Heathrow’s proposal to more than quadruple certain early construction-related spending to £2.8bn because of the risk the costs would be passed on to passengers if the project is eventually cancelled. The CAA said its preference was for spending to increase to £1.6bn.
IAG, the owner of British Airways and Heathrow’s biggest customer, has consistently said it will not pay excessive costs. IAG said: “The third runway was approved by the secretary of state for transport based on customer charges remaining at current levels. Yet Heathrow is already talking about charges going up — they just can’t be trusted.”
Heathrow said it had no preference for either of its two plans, noting that it will hold discussions with key stakeholders such as the CAA, airlines and consumers over the next six months before publishing its final business plan. The CAA will be responsible for scrutinising Heathrow’s spending and for agreeing the new passenger charges.
___________________________________________
Apologies if already mentioned but as a distraction the the endless R3 debate, British Airways will launch 6 new routes from Heathrow for summer 2020 - Bodrum, Dalaman, Perugia, Podgorica, Pristina and Rhodes
Every one a major business hub post- Brexit I see....................
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Paxing All Over The World
Parking: It is many years since I've had a trip that was out of one terminal and back to another but now have an Out - 5 and Back - 3. If I park in the Long Term 5, what is the easiest route to that park from T3? Do I have to go back to 5 to get a bus?
Thanks.
Thanks.
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I wonder if there are third party carparks which serve T3 & T5 from the same carparks?
Yes land-side transfers are all possible using the tube/train service - But always allow a fair bit of time - especially for the EXPRESS - often a 15-20 minute gap