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Manchester-2

Old 23rd Apr 2019, 21:32
  #2981 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jul 2017
Location: London
Posts: 175
Mr Mac Munich is not a regional by any stretch of the imagination - Its The federal capital with Lufthansa and Star partners operating a true global Hub !

The works on T2x meet the highest current UK building standards for PUBLIC buildings in both environmental and security standards and whatís wrong RAL7016 ?

If you have worked on developments of a similar nature you will know full well that GLASS is most expensive needs substantial amounts of curtain walling rails normally sourced from just a very few German or Swiss manufacturers whilst they fail to meet the new UK public works explosion resistance standards in the main, and massively fail the environmental production standards of relevant Green credentials. Glass production is massively energy inefficient and poluting.

And to be frank whatís the point of glass even frosted with curtain walling rails on the lower ancillary levels or indeed upper levels containing air ventilation, and fire protection systems ?

As a pier itís purely a functional structure, however there are issues with docking. Some of the air bridge alignment associated with the larger widebody jets that have been identified in early snagging.


Think Iíve said before this is not some architectural masterpiece never was going to be, and never should it be.

This concern that somehow foreign visitors care what the structures external appearance looks like is imho nonsense , however how they perceive the security customs and immigration processes will have an effect and for the most part these are controlled by other agencies.

Like it or not the VAST majority of the Manchester SLF clientele remains UK residents and with BREXIT looming the reintroduction of the Duty Free meagre allowances for many travellers (They will love the old 200 cigies, 1 litre of spirits and hereís the big one just £390 pounds of gifts with receipts) the airport and its concessions will need to get even more money from the departing passengers purses !




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Old 23rd Apr 2019, 21:56
  #2982 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: May 2005
Location: U.K
Posts: 490
Think Iíve said before this is not some architectural masterpiece never was going to be, and never should it be.
Err, yes it should, MAN is not only the gateway to Manchester, which as a City is once again aspiring to be a world city with some success, but also the gateway to the whole north of England. This" it's functional, therefore, it'll do" mentality is just accepting of Mediocrity. Look at any form of architecture from behind the iron curtain - they were all functional !!

Just think of how the Victorian Railway pioneers were each building their magnificent grandiose Stations that just shouted Welcome to our city. The new T2 development sadly lacks this ethos.
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Old 24th Apr 2019, 07:11
  #2983 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Oct 2015
Location: stockport
Posts: 102
The Victorians had so much money to spend on grand buildings but not on the staff who often worked
in disgusting conditions
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Old 24th Apr 2019, 07:33
  #2984 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: Manchester
Posts: 74
Originally Posted by The96er View Post
Err, yes it should, MAN is not only the gateway to Manchester, which as a City is once again aspiring to be a world city with some success, but also the gateway to the whole north of England. This" it's functional, therefore, it'll do" mentality is just accepting of Mediocrity. Look at any form of architecture from behind the iron curtain - they were all functional !!
Having just visited T4 at JFK, give me a bland T2 at MAN any day. Complete shambles.

On the return to MAN T1, I was off the plane, straight through passport control, grabbed my bag and took a taxi home. Less than an hour from wheels down. And you know what, I didn't stop to think what might have been if Sir Norman Foster had been involved in the design.

People want a functional airport.
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Old 24th Apr 2019, 16:26
  #2985 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: Beyond the Blue Horizon
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Originally Posted by Rutan16 View Post
Mr Mac Munich is not a regional by any stretch of the imagination - Its The federal capital with Lufthansa and Star partners operating a true global Hub !

The works on T2x meet the highest current UK building standards for PUBLIC buildings in both environmental and security standards and what’s wrong RAL7016 ?

If you have worked on developments of a similar nature you will know full well that GLASS is most expensive needs substantial amounts of curtain walling rails normally sourced from just a very few German or Swiss manufacturers whilst they fail to meet the new UK public works explosion resistance standards in the main, and massively fail the environmental production standards of relevant Green credentials. Glass production is massively energy inefficient and poluting.

And to be frank what’s the point of glass even frosted with curtain walling rails on the lower ancillary levels or indeed upper levels containing air ventilation, and fire protection systems ?

As a pier it’s purely a functional structure, however there are issues with docking. Some of the air bridge alignment associated with the larger widebody jets that have been identified in early snagging.


Think I’ve said before this is not some architectural masterpiece never was going to be, and never should it be.

This concern that somehow foreign visitors care what the structures external appearance looks like is imho nonsense , however how they perceive the security customs and immigration processes will have an effect and for the most part these are controlled by other agencies.

Like it or not the VAST majority of the Manchester SLF clientele remains UK residents and with BREXIT looming the reintroduction of the Duty Free meagre allowances for many travellers (They will love the old 200 cigies, 1 litre of spirits and here’s the big one just £390 pounds of gifts with receipts) the airport and its concessions will need to get even more money from the departing passengers purses !





Rutan 16
I am aware that Munich is a state capital as our European office has moved there from London, and I keep a flat there as a result, so feel a little qualified to discuss the point. The hinterland and population is similar to that of Manchester and also its catchment area, so we are looking at similar possible traffic density. The fact that LH uses it as hub you should take up with BA, and ask why they abandoned everywhere outside the M25, but that is a different topic. I am sure the new building does meet current codes, or else the design team want sacking, and I did not say it did not. Do not confuse my comments re design with the issues involved in an infamous tower block, as that was not my point. What is wrong with Ral 7016 is that it is everywhere in the UK on public and private buildings, and is used primarily, as it hides dirt and therefore the cladding appears cleaner than it is, which means that people do not have to clean it so often. However if not cleaned by approved cleaners every 6 months your warranty disappears. Guess what does not get cleaned on most buildings unless your client has deep pockets or status. As for the curtain walling, yes there are Swiss / German / American / any number of others countries including some English ones, and glass is more expensive than panels, but if you want an airport like the sheds at Daventry distribution centre, or a US Walmart go with panels, but it is not statement architecture, and a poor advert for the region. Incidentally Asda Walmart tried to build a US style store in the UK in Yorkshire, and actually built it, but had to subsequently alter it to put more glass in as people did not like walking through a shed to shop. As for Green issues you will find that 30% of all glass used in construction is recycled, which has caused its own problems. If you Google Nickel Sulphide Inclusions you will see what I mean. I was not asking for an architectural master piece, as I am well aware that MAG does not have the budget for that , hell they can not even fix the lifts and escalators, so I was well aware we were not going to get a new HK/ SIN. However I thought we could have done better than a municipal bus station. I quoted the small municipal pool in Colne as good architecture on a strict budget, to show how it can be done, but you appear to want a Norman Foster inspired project which MAG could not afford. However was his practice asked, or were any other airport specialists asked for input ? I note your address is London, so I take it you are quite happy with T5, but feel that the regions are not worthy of having anything like that. Give them a bus shelter to smoke their fags in and drink their beer, on the way to the Med once a year ,and they will be happy ! We are supposed to inspire people to greater things, not settle for mediocrity, which is so prevalent in the way English society seems to be going. I do agree with you with regards security, check in, and immigration, but my experience at Manchester is a little mixed on all counts there. Not as bad as most US airports as rkenyon alludes to about JFK, and I hold the same views about there as well, and would also add ATL / LAX / SFO/ MIA and many others I have visited in the "Empire", but we should try to imitate the best, not the mediocre / dreadful. I agree with 96er, and there comment on railway stations, as some like GMEX even look well after their original function has ceased. As for Victorian labour practises Chaps 1954, I would look no further than current Zero hour labour practices, and ask have we improved much in the last say 100 + years, or are we regressing as a nation. Anyway enough of my rant, time to get my flight, as the drivers arrived.
Kind regards
Mr Mac

Last edited by Mr Mac; 26th Apr 2019 at 16:05.
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Old 24th Apr 2019, 18:48
  #2986 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Aug 1999
Location: EGCC
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The last few weeks have been rather hectic, hence the delay in posting these updates.

MANTP Weekly Update #86, courtesy of the MANTP Project team:






















Last edited by Scottie Dog; 24th Apr 2019 at 19:04.
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Old 24th Apr 2019, 18:55
  #2987 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Aug 1999
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MANTP Weekly Update #87, courtesy of the MANTP Project team:













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Old 25th Apr 2019, 08:30
  #2988 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Sep 2014
Location: Frankfurt, Germany
Posts: 40
Originally Posted by Mr Mac View Post
Rutan 16
I am aware that Munich is a state capital as our European office has moved there from London, and I keep a flat there as a result, so feel a little qualified to discuss the point. The hinterland and population is similar to that of Manchester and also its catchment area, so we are looking at similar possible traffic density. The fact that LH uses it as hub you should take up with BA, and ask why they abandoned everywhere outside the M25, but that is a different topic. I am sure the new building does meet current codes, or else the design team want sacking, and I did not say it did not. Do not confuse my comments re design with the issues involved in an infamous tower block, as that was not my point. What is wrong with Ral 7016 is that it is everywhere in the UK on public and private buildings, and is used primarily, as it hides dirt and therefore the cladding appears cleaner than it is, which means that people do not have to clean it so often. However if not cleaned by approved cleaners every 6 months your warranty disappears. Guess what does not cleaned on most buildings unless your client has deep pockets or status. As for the curtain walling yes there are Swiss / German / American / any number of others countries including some English ones, and glass is more expensive than panels, but if you want an airport like the sheds at Daventry distribution centre, or a US Walmart go with panels, but it is not statement architecture, and a poor advert for the region. Incidentally Asda Walmart tried to build a US style store in the UK in Yorkshire, and actually built it, but had to subsequently alter it to put more glass in as people did not like walking through a shed to shop. As for Green issues you will find that 30% of all glass used in construction is recycled, which has caused its own problems, if you Google Nickel Sulphide you will see what I mean. I was not asking for an architectural master piece as I am well aware that MAG does not have the budget for that , hell they can not even fix the lifts and escalators so I was well aware we were not going to get a new HK/ SIN. However I thought we could have done better than a municipal bus station. I quoted the small municipal pool in Colne as good architecture on a strict budget, to show how it can be done, but you appear to want a Norman Foster inspired project which MAG could not afford. However was he asked or were any other airport specialists asked for input ? I note your address is London, so I take it you are quite happy with T5, but feel that the regions are not worthy of having anything like that. Give them a bus shelter to smoke their fags and drink their beer in on the way to the Med once a year ,any they will be happy ! We are supposed to inspire people to greater things, not settle for mediocrity, which is so prevalent in the way English society seems to be going. I do agree with you with regards security, check in, and immigration, but my experience at Manchester is a little mixed on all counts there. Not as bad as most US airports as rkenyon alludes to about JFK, and I hold the same views about there as well, and would also add ATL / LAX / SFO/ MIA and many others I have visited in the "Empire", but we should try to imitate the best, not the mediocre / dreadful. I agree with 96er and there comment on railway stations, as some like GMEX even look well after their original function has ceased. As for Victorian labour practises Chaps 1954, I would look no further than current Zero hour labour practices, and ask have we improved much in the last say 100 + years, or are we regressing as a nation. Anyway enough of my rant, time to get my flight, as the drivers arrived.
Kind regards
Mr Mac
Hi Mr Mac, I am also a user of MUC and FRA as I live near Darmstadt. There is considerable bussing to the aircraft at these airports. Arriving at FRA terminal 1 from BKK 2 weeks ago I had a considerable route march from the plane on Gate 46 to get baggage and a further route march to the car park. I find Terminal 2 at both MUC and FRA have messy layouts. There is only 1 advantage to the design - the 3rd level to deal with non Shengen passengers. I am surprised that given that MAN were trying to secure pre clearance to the US and I presume domestic from the same terminal that an additional level is not being considered on any of the piers
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Old 26th Apr 2019, 06:46
  #2989 (permalink)  
 
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MAN2SIN2BKK2FRA
I agree you have bus use at both airports, as you indeed do at some of the bigger hubs, DXB quickly springs to mind, where they bus 777 passengers on a regular basis from outer stands. Indeed I had that yesterday on my transfer there to India. My comment on Manchester were more about the external look of the building, although T2 was no beauty in the first place. Also at least in FRA/MUC lifts etc are fixed when broken, not just left, and there is a fair walk to the A380 stand on T1 at MAN. I will await with interest, and view with a professional eye, what I see inside when I eventually use the new pier.

Kind regards
Mr Mac
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Old 26th Apr 2019, 07:26
  #2990 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: United Kingdom
Posts: 369
Arriving at Hong Kong recently upon exiting the aircraft I had a walk along a pier, downstairs to a bus ride, a long walk, a train ride, and another long walk - just to get to the Immigration counters !! But at least the bus, up and down escalators, travelators, train and toilets along the way were all working efficiently and were spotlessly clean. I don't think folk would have a problem with remote aircraft parking, or the MAN experience in general, if all the facilities along the way were working, clean, fit for purpose, and not leaking !! That's where MAG lets itself down so often.

Looking forward to using the new pier and re-modelled T2 next time I visit MAN. Despite all the criticism on here (without doubt justifiable at times) I'm sure it will be 100% better than what it is starting to replace.
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Old 30th Apr 2019, 18:55
  #2991 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Dec 1998
Location: .
Posts: 2,913
update on pier 1, the A350-900 can only go on 106 as the airbridge doesn't fit on any of the others! FEP's keep tripping as they can't handle the loads needed for modern aircraft! Issues with airbridge and the 747. Wheel chair access too dangerous on the narrowbody side as the airbridge angle is far too steep and considered too dangerous, any PA announcements at the new pier does not go to the main part of T2, the part where all the passengers will be as that's the only place to eat and drink! Moving walkways not working! Apart from that it's a success I'm led to believe!
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Old 30th Apr 2019, 19:44
  #2992 (permalink)  
 
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Spannersatcx
Well obviously worse than I thought. I only commented on the aesthetics , I did assume that the the mechanics would have actually worked ! Not a good bit of PR for LOR / MAG.

Regards
Mr Mac

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Old 30th Apr 2019, 20:24
  #2993 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Feb 2018
Location: Manchester
Posts: 27
Walkways at MAN are a myth. Convinced they're only there for showboating purposes

When is the 2nd pier construction due to begin?
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Old 30th Apr 2019, 22:33
  #2994 (permalink)  
 
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Posts: 867
When is the 2nd pier construction due to begin?
It has already begun.
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Old 1st May 2019, 08:22
  #2995 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Aug 1999
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At the present time the work on the site of Pier 2 is limited to the new budding lounge. I will check later, but the actual Pier itself is not due to be in use until 2024 if I remember correctly.
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Old 1st May 2019, 08:49
  #2996 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Oct 2015
Location: stockport
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Yes I think you are right Scottie but I am interested in this budding lounge
chaps1954 is online now  
Old 1st May 2019, 08:53
  #2997 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: Cheshire
Posts: 1,038
Yes, work on the new bussing lounge for a/c parked on remote stands is at Pier 2, but the actual Pier is the third to be built. Next up is Pier 3, hopefully with less issues than seem to be the case at Pier 1.
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Old 1st May 2019, 14:05
  #2998 (permalink)  
 
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I saw the new 'Premium Terminal' recently. It resembles a school woodwork project.
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Old 1st May 2019, 14:44
  #2999 (permalink)  
 
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Zooker, would that be 6th Form or 1st Year project?:
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Old 1st May 2019, 16:04
  #3000 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
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Originally Posted by chaps1954 View Post
Yes I think you are right Scottie but I am interested in this budding lounge
"Budding lounge" = posh greenhouse?
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