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Old 2nd Jul 2018, 23:03
  #521 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by flyerboy View Post
Do we have to explain yield again?

Not to me but you can if can if it helps.
Do you know how much cargo was shipped using the Doha route?
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Old 3rd Jul 2018, 08:21
  #522 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by PDXCWL45 View Post
Do you know how much cargo was shipped using the Doha route?
152 tonnes according to the CAA stats.

There was only 10,951 seats onsale as the 1st A350 arrival was a non revenue one.
And? The non-revenue pax will have been included in the 2,965 pax carried

I know it's early days, but yields will need to be stellar if the L/F is 30%.
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Old 3rd Jul 2018, 08:32
  #523 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by SWBKCB View Post
152 tonnes according to the CAA stats.



And? The non-revenue pax will have been included in the 2,965 pax carried

I know it's early days, but yields will need to be stellar if the L/F is 30%.
Well Qatar must be happy as they increased to 6 weekly in May 2019.
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Old 3rd Jul 2018, 08:43
  #524 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by PDXCWL45 View Post
Well Qatar must be happy as they increased to 6 weekly in May 2019.
For April and May 2019 Qatar Airways have increased flights to Doha from 5 weekly to 6 weekly with the addition of a Thursday flight. Only day it doesn't operate on is Monday
.

Is that for the full season or just April and May?
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Old 3rd Jul 2018, 09:03
  #525 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by SWBKCB View Post
.

Is that for the full season or just April and May?
April and May at the moment .
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Old 3rd Jul 2018, 12:51
  #526 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: May 2018
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152 tonnes and a 26% load factor isn't that profitable. The whole route is completely stupid. It's a vanity route and Qatar is only flying it because of WG help. It's going to be downgraded to a 320 soon and the frequency cut. That is, if there is not a contract stipulating frequency for political reasons.

@PDXCWL45, Qatar don't exactly have an aircraft shortage, do they? Not only are they desperate to lease planes to other airlines like BA, they have lots sitting around doing nothing. They might as well fly this route because it would not surprise me if the WG is underwriting any losses or give other incentives. But we'll never know "commercial reasons" will be cited in any FoI request.
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Old 3rd Jul 2018, 15:58
  #527 (permalink)  
 
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If they were to operate the route x1.5 weekly on the 787, they'd be rolling in it with 97.25% load factors! Say every Monday and every other Friday, I think it could work. In time they might be able to profitably run a twice weekly A350 in and out of Cardiff.

I'm sorry, I'm willing to give any operation the benefit of the doubt and I love supporting the underdogs. I wished Cardiff well but this is just ridiculous. Anyone airline in their right mind would have picked Bristol... And any airport that had the slightest intention of making money out of this and building a stable relationship and profitable route, would not have picked Qatar. This is just another example of QR's dodgy business practices. Thank God the average member of the public doesn't understand how these operations work and are probably still naive enough to believe this is a positive thing for Cardiff, Wales and the South West.
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Old 3rd Jul 2018, 16:31
  #528 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by EK77WNCL View Post
If they were to operate the route x1.5 weekly on the 787, they'd be rolling in it with 97.25% load factors! Say every Monday and every other Friday, I think it could work. In time they might be able to profitably run a twice weekly A350 in and out of Cardiff.

I'm sorry, I'm willing to give any operation the benefit of the doubt and I love supporting the underdogs. I wished Cardiff well but this is just ridiculous. Anyone airline in their right mind would have picked Bristol... And any airport that had the slightest intention of making money out of this and building a stable relationship and profitable route, would not have picked Qatar. This is just another example of QR's dodgy business practices. Thank God the average member of the public doesn't understand how these operations work and are probably still naive enough to believe this is a positive thing for Cardiff, Wales and the South West.
An accurate summary there. Long-haul to the Middle East is not a game changer as some hardcore Cardiff Airport fans would have you believe. They look only for the positive and ignore the negatives. Cardiff Airport should stop chasing long haul travel. If the Welsh Government has sense it would undercut Bristol, hand out wads of cash, and beg Ryanair to make Cardiff a hub like Southend.
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Old 3rd Jul 2018, 16:49
  #529 (permalink)  
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Yes the QR loads are low for May but this was the 1st month of operation, people really need to give this route chance to prove itself before slating it.

I imagine there will be an increase in figures for the next coming months as people get to hear about it and use it. From what Iíve read and seen the fairs are reasonable too if booked in advance (as many people do).

Maybe a daily service was excessive and 3 or 4 times a week would have been better, however we have this route from a world class carrier and should support it and not constantly knock it.

Im sure people would not have been happy if they chose BRS, but they didnt, they chose CWL and time will tell over the next couple of months (not just month 1 of operation) how successful it is and will be
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Old 3rd Jul 2018, 18:10
  #530 (permalink)  
 
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Qatar don't exactly have an aircraft shortage, do they? Not only are they desperate to lease planes to other airlines like BA, they have lots sitting around doing nothing.
Qatar (the country) is being sanctioned by various other Middle East states, including Saudi and Egypt, hence their current fleet availability. If that is resolved, they will have greater need for their fleet.
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Old 3rd Jul 2018, 20:50
  #531 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by Letsflycwl View Post
Im sure people would not have been happy if they chose BRS, but they didnt, they chose CWL and time will tell over the next couple of months (not just month 1 of operation) how successful it is and will be
And i think for many here that is the bugbear and why many are against the route and willing it too fail because in their minds Qatar were supposed to pick Bristol not Cardiff and that seems to offended many people on this site because something positive has happended to Wales. I do wonder if there will be the same negativity if/when Qatar launch Belfast. There are many reasons why Cardiff was chosen over Bristol and Welsh Government lobbying is just one of them.
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Old 3rd Jul 2018, 20:52
  #532 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by EK77WNCL View Post
If they were to operate the route x1.5 weekly on the 787, they'd be rolling in it with 97.25% load factors! Say every Monday and every other Friday, I think it could work. In time they might be able to profitably run a twice weekly A350 in and out of Cardiff.

I'm sorry, I'm willing to give any operation the benefit of the doubt and I love supporting the underdogs. I wished Cardiff well but this is just ridiculous. Anyone airline in their right mind would have picked Bristol... And any airport that had the slightest intention of making money out of this and building a stable relationship and profitable route, would not have picked Qatar. This is just another example of QR's dodgy business practices. Thank God the average member of the public doesn't understand how these operations work and are probably still naive enough to believe this is a positive thing for Cardiff, Wales and the South West.
The route wouldn't be viable on that frequency and yes the route is a positive for Wales as a country just like the Dubai route is for the North East.
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Old 3rd Jul 2018, 21:02
  #533 (permalink)  
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Originally Posted by PDXCWL45 View Post
And i think for many here that is the bugbear and why many are against the route and willing it too fail because in their minds Qatar were supposed to pick Bristol not Cardiff and that seems to offended many people on this site because something positive has happended to Wales. I do wonder if there will be the same negativity if/when Qatar launch Belfast. There are many reasons why Cardiff was chosen over Bristol and Welsh Government lobbying is just one of them.
I could not have said it any better than that !!! Totally agree with you here
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Old 3rd Jul 2018, 21:52
  #534 (permalink)  
 
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Is it really a positive for wales if it's just having money thrown at it? Taxpayer's money I assume (please correct me if I'm wrong). I can draw some significant differences between CWL-DOH and NCL-DXB. Vague similarities are that they both started with roughly 8 months of advances sales from the original press release, both started on 1st of the month and were on similarly sized, two class aircraft (788 - 254 vs A332 - 278). That's where it ends. September 2007 saw 9552 passengers fly NCL-DXB. Yes, it was daily, but CWL-DOH was originally sold as daily. 9552 passengers is a 57% load factor on the 278 seat A330. EK's fares were/are also slightly higher than QR's. Were QR not selling CWL-SYD for something crazy like £400 return a few months ago. 26% is not a sustainable load factor, not by a long shot, not even if every single seat was full fare!

I say this as if it matters to Qatar Airways, who seem to care very little for any kind of economic viability. As long as they can say they serve the most capital cities, I'll just sit back and watch them live in their own little bubble. It's a real shame though, they could genuinely have something to offer Wales and the South West if they weren't so reckless!
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Old 4th Jul 2018, 06:31
  #535 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by EK77WNCL View Post
Is it really a positive for wales if it's just having money thrown at it? Taxpayer's money I assume (please correct me if I'm wrong). I can draw some significant differences between CWL-DOH and NCL-DXB. Vague similarities are that they both started with roughly 8 months of advances sales from the original press release, both started on 1st of the month and were on similarly sized, two class aircraft (788 - 254 vs A332 - 278). That's where it ends. September 2007 saw 9552 passengers fly NCL-DXB. Yes, it was daily, but CWL-DOH was originally sold as daily. 9552 passengers is a 57% load factor on the 278 seat A330. EK's fares were/are also slightly higher than QR's. Were QR not selling CWL-SYD for something crazy like £400 return a few months ago. 26% is not a sustainable load factor, not by a long shot, not even if every single seat was full fare!

I say this as if it matters to Qatar Airways, who seem to care very little for any kind of economic viability. As long as they can say they serve the most capital cities, I'll just sit back and watch them live in their own little bubble. It's a real shame though, they could genuinely have something to offer Wales and the South West if they weren't so reckless!
So a government spending money promoting Wales not just as a tourist destination but as a place for business and investment isn't a positive thing in your mind? As for load factors the route has gotten off to a slow a start yes but Cardiff is different than Newcastle and will need time to build the route up which will happen.
So serving Wales is in your eyes reckless let me guess because they should've gone to Bristol?
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Old 4th Jul 2018, 06:45
  #536 (permalink)  
 
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Clearly it is far to early to say if the route is a failure or a success, so the comments about "it's all positive" are as invalid as the "we're all doomed" types. I thought generally Prunners we're in favour of routes being given time to develop?

I have no problem with the WG as owners of the airport offering start up support, so long as the within the realms of that available from other commercial operators in the rest of the country - there should be a level playing field.

And to be honest, if Qatar want to operate an un-commercial service as a vanity project, are we bothered so long as the service is sustained and isn't constantly chopped and changed??

Being able to offer "Global connectivity" must be a good thing for the Welsh economy.
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Old 4th Jul 2018, 06:46
  #537 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by Letsflycwl View Post
Yes the QR loads are low for May but this was the 1st month of operation, people really need to give this route chance to prove itself before slating it.

I imagine there will be an increase in figures for the next coming months as people get to hear about it and use it. From what Iíve read and seen the fairs are reasonable too if booked in advance (as many people do).

Maybe a daily service was excessive and 3 or 4 times a week would have been better, however we have this route from a world class carrier and should support it and not constantly knock it.

Im sure people would not have been happy if they chose BRS, but they didnt, they chose CWL and time will tell over the next couple of months (not just month 1 of operation) how successful it is and will be
QR loads across all their UK routes were pretty dire in April, and certainly not too much can be read into one month's figures, especially when that one month is the first month of operation. One thing is for certain, they can't make money on 30% passenger load factors even if the aircraft are rammed with cargo on all sectors but sometimes you wonder if QR is actually there to make money, or is a vanity project for the country's leaders.

Problem with reducing frequency to 3 or so per week is that you're making the service less attractive to business passengers who need frequency and flexibility, and if a route is to survive on lower loads then front end loads have to be good - that is where the likes of LHR succeed and BHX fail.

I wouldn't be too despondent unless passenger numbers aren't very significantly improved by September.
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Old 5th Jul 2018, 08:06
  #538 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by PDXCWL45 View Post
And i think for many here that is the bugbear and why many are against the route and willing it too fail because in their minds Qatar were supposed to pick Bristol not Cardiff and that seems to offended many people on this site because something positive has happended to Wales. I do wonder if there will be the same negativity if/when Qatar launch Belfast. There are many reasons why Cardiff was chosen over Bristol and Welsh Government lobbying is just one of them.
Lack of a dedicated air freight handler probably also goes against Bristol as well.... way back in the day they used to have one, but got rid in favour of car parking and lo cost operators. Their choice.

Ttfn
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Old 5th Jul 2018, 08:32
  #539 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by ivor toolbox View Post
Lack of a dedicated air freight handler probably also goes against Bristol as well.... way back in the day they used to have one, but got rid in favour of car parking and lo cost operators. Their choice.

Ttfn
Yep and the runway length as well. Other reasons as well.
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Old 5th Jul 2018, 10:33
  #540 (permalink)  
 
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Other reasons as well.
Such as???
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