Airlines, Airports & Routes Topics about airports, routes and airline business.

Southend-2

Old 30th May 2019, 14:02
  #3081 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Apr 2012
Location: ESSEX
Posts: 245
Boris island is a ludicrous idea. You have people travelling all the way from west of London to further east than Southend to fly long haul... the whole infrastructure surrounding Heathrow and the m4 corridor, and all the business located there will have zero interest in that ..
more by luck than design there are three/four international airports around London. That isn’t going to change .
the rise of the regional airport will continue for a while yet, especially with the improvements in airplane performance
SARF is offline  
Old 30th May 2019, 14:07
  #3082 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jan 2014
Location: Daws Heath Essex
Posts: 416
Originally Posted by southside bobby View Post
A cautionary tale has been posted earlier regarding the planning permission for the next phase of development at STN & therefore prospects for SEN.

Luckily permission for STN was granted before the local elections with indeed then a major change in Councillor line up with most/all against the further development however it was finally accepted & stated permission cannot be retrospectively revoked after much legal consultation conducted over that w/end.

So the big dollar question foremost for SEN/here would be what is the current max permitted passenger thru put ? & how much greater in percentage terms would 10 or even 15m pax per year equate to, then perhaps take the reality check/view regarding the unsuitability of the site in every aspect & ask if a public enquiry would approve such an expansion & which political hand would be prepared to sign it off.

All politics...European,Governmental & local are becoming daily more vocal against aviation expansion.

The one hope for aviation in the UK would be "BJ" & then all the London Airport`s can be moved out to sea which should have happened 40/50 years ago TBH.
That ship sailed with the Roskill Commission back in the 60s and 70s SSB.Hence therise of STN to become the third London airport. An estuary airport on reclaimed land would have been hugely expensive, together with costly road and rail links to London. In addition there is the problem of sea fog and Brent geese arriving at their traditional feeding grounds, and much of this area is now covered by vast numbers of wind turbines, I cannot see our Green friends being too happy seeing these being grubbed up to be replaced by 12000ft runways. I think it is going to be hard enough getting another runway into LHR.
We may just be seeing peak London airport capaciry.

Planespeaking is online now  
Old 30th May 2019, 14:10
  #3083 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: bishops stortford herts
Posts: 1,304
Anyways back to SEN can I ask again what is the permitted max passenger capacity at the moment please?

In light of the recent posts here it would be a relevant question.
southside bobby is offline  
Old 30th May 2019, 14:15
  #3084 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jan 2014
Location: Daws Heath Essex
Posts: 416
Originally Posted by southside bobby View Post
Anyways back to SEN can I ask again what is the permitted max passenger capacity at the moment please?

In light of the recent posts here it would be a relevant question.
I thought it was 2.5m, but I'm happy to be corrected.
Planespeaking is online now  
Old 30th May 2019, 14:19
  #3085 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: bishops stortford herts
Posts: 1,304
OMG...Apologies I knew I should not have mentioned the "Estuary" .

Don`t worry I have chapter & verse on the whole subject.

The comment was really just illustrative of the predicament of everything in the UK...politics...planning...infrastructure et al.
southside bobby is offline  
Old 30th May 2019, 14:35
  #3086 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: bishops stortford herts
Posts: 1,304
2.5m capacity sounds a reasonable max permitted level at the present time.

The SEN Director is in print previously with a total of 15m so even to 10m (which is todays story) as a percentage it is huge growth leap which in todays climate (bit of a pun) is going to be a very tough proposition to negotiate it would appear.

LHR RW3 is almost certainly not going to happen.

Bristol Airport is up against it now with it`s proposals for expansion.

HS2 is almost certainly not going to happen.

STN would not have won it`s own permissions if the new Council had been in place.
southside bobby is offline  
Old 30th May 2019, 14:51
  #3087 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: U.K.
Posts: 394
There is no maximum permitted annual passenger level at SEN at present.
Tagron is offline  
Old 30th May 2019, 15:24
  #3088 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: bishops stortford herts
Posts: 1,304
Perhaps to ask in a different form...

What are the constraints imposed by the local Council then when planning permission was granted?

Is SEN constrained with upper ATM limits perhaps.

Planning permission would have been granted only with operating constraints surely as that would be due process.
southside bobby is offline  
Old 30th May 2019, 15:53
  #3089 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: UK
Age: 71
Posts: 2,296
The total ATM limit is 53,300 excluding 'Exempt' ATMs. The latter comprise Police, medevac, military, Coastguard and Government flights and emergency (not weather related) diversions.

I would suggest that the chances of Southend Borough Council agreeing a future increase in ATM numbers would be very slim.
Expressflight is offline  
Old 30th May 2019, 17:02
  #3090 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Aug 2014
Location: East London
Age: 37
Posts: 1,025
Originally Posted by southside bobby View Post
STN would not have won it`s own permissions if the new Council had been in place.
Not quite true. Refusals can be appealed to the Planning Inspectorate which is independent, moreover if the refusal was unreasonable the Council would have costs awarded against them. Due to the nature of the applications this would be considerable, and could soon turn politically toxic for the administration. Even more generally within the planning system (housing etc) these residents groups have over-promised on matters for which theyíre ill-informed and now theyíre in power the realisation is coming fast that they canít do what they told voters they would.

Fighting for re-election in four years on a platform of cutting all services because your decision-making has bankrupted the Council isnít a good look.
AirportPlanner1 is offline  
Old 30th May 2019, 17:06
  #3091 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: Rapunzel's tower
Posts: 458
Sorry, Iím being lazy...how many (qualifying) movements last year?
good egg is online now  
Old 30th May 2019, 17:11
  #3092 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: UK
Age: 62
Posts: 288
Re A321 ops at SEN - The runway is 1850m TDA (which is not TORA, nor TODR)

An A321 cannot take off from Skiathos with a full load with the fuel needed to get back to UK - The JSI runway is 1630m TDA
They have to tech stop at anywhere as far up as Corfu - but often at nearer airports Volos Lemnos Kavala or SKG - sometimes with split pax loads.

The new A321 Neo at SEN it maybe possible to achieve the like of the Canaries and Corfu without the payload penalty of the current A320 and that is why SEN M.D has hinted they are doing £10m of works on the runway to enable the A321 to operate.

Remains to be seen on what route lengths they can achieve with SEN's runway re both Take-off's and landings using the much longer A321 and is the A321Neo the better option?

I am not sure if the new EZY A320Neo is still payload restricted to the Canaries as is their A320 CFM powered a/c.
rog747 is offline  
Old 30th May 2019, 17:25
  #3093 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: bishops stortford herts
Posts: 1,304
Basically correct of course AirportPlanner1 but the application/reapplication process would have run on & on with far more delaying/aborting attempts from the "new age" lobbyist groups now & the ever present SSE.
southside bobby is offline  
Old 30th May 2019, 17:44
  #3094 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: UK
Age: 71
Posts: 2,296
Originally Posted by good egg View Post
Sorry, I’m being lazy...how many (qualifying) movements last year?

Total ATMs in 2018 were 32,531. How many of those were 'Exempt' I don't know but not a huge number so safe to say 'qualifying' ATMs were around 32,000. Commercial Movements were 17,613 and Aero Club and Private aircraft movements totalled just over 10,000 so it's easy to see which movements will be curtailed to provide more Commercial Movement capacity when needed.
Expressflight is offline  
Old 30th May 2019, 19:48
  #3095 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Apr 2003
Location: Northumberland
Posts: 4,552
The total ATM limit is 53,300 excluding 'Exempt' ATMs.
10m divided by 53,300 = 187!
SWBKCB is online now  
Old 30th May 2019, 20:29
  #3096 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Apr 2012
Location: ESSEX
Posts: 245
146 take offs and landings a day. That security Q will be starting at Mac Donald’s !
SARF is offline  
Old 30th May 2019, 21:00
  #3097 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jul 2002
Location: In the sticks
Posts: 7,093
So who owns the freehold of Southend Airport? Not Stobart but the council. The freeholder could just say no which would stop Stobart in their tracks regardless of any planning application.

10million is a ridiculous number that only plane spotters would support. A quick look at google maps shows the airport access is via the local road network and is not served directly by easy access dual carriageways that bypass the town. 10 million passengers would have a major impact on local roads and residents lives who need to be heard.
LTNman is offline  
Old 30th May 2019, 21:42
  #3098 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: UK
Posts: 534
10m is utter pie in the sky and will never happen, nor will it be allowed. Those connected to the airport want to run before they even walk and to date the airport is only managing 1.5m pa. Sure this will rise but I cannot see a threshold above 4-5m, ever!
stewyb is online now  
Old 30th May 2019, 21:52
  #3099 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: Blighty
Posts: 3,695
Luton in 1997 had just over 3 million pax. In 2017 it had almost 16 million. The expansion proposals seem to indicate Luton serving up to about 35 million pax per year

If demand at Southend is strong enough (and with Heathrow R3 permanently on hold, demand will go somewhere) then corporate cash will eventually find a way to expand at Southend with the promise of jobs as a sop for the local council / voters

10m pax at Southend in 2021 ? Not a chance
10m pax at Southend in 2031 ? Wouldn't rule it out
davidjohnson6 is offline  
Old 30th May 2019, 22:28
  #3100 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Apr 2016
Location: Essex
Posts: 879
This is what I love about this thread. I posted this morning, then commitments took me elsewhere. Returning, I find over 20 further contributions. And ​​​dj6 not ruling out 10m pax takes me to a place so far in the future I do not normally go there. After a thoughtful Cotes du Rhone (or two), I have to agree it could happen - despite previously stating it wasn't possible - because, like dj6 and our dear friend southside, I cannot see R3 at LHR in my lifetime, and if London remains one of the great global capitals, then aviation demand will surely have to be absorbed by other London airports.
DC3 Dave is offline  

Thread Tools
Search this Thread

Contact Us - Archive - Advertising - Cookie Policy - Privacy Statement - Terms of Service - Do Not Sell My Personal Information

Copyright © 2018 MH Sub I, LLC dba Internet Brands. All rights reserved. Use of this site indicates your consent to the Terms of Use.