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Southend-2

Old 31st Dec 2018, 11:59
  #2401 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by DC3 Dave View Post
It's an interesting discussion, but I think we can rest assured that FR have carried out all the necessary evaluations, have a plan in place and are not just going to suck it and see.
I totally agree.
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Old 31st Dec 2018, 12:02
  #2402 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by Suzeman View Post
FWIW Ryanair are operating at least one DUB-VIE-DUB rotation a week (think it is Sunday) using a Laudamotion flight number and callsign, so there is already some form of co-operation going on.
All the DUB-VIE and DUB-INN are bing operated by Laudamotion, as are both daily VIE-STN.


It's an interesting discussion, but I think we can rest assured that FR have carried out all the necessary evaluations, have a plan in place and are not just going to suck it and see.
Absolutely, FR will know what they are doing for sure. But its interesting to learn why the standard 738 can't use SEN profitably. I had assumed it was a case of take-off performance being the issue, rather than landing, for example. Some posters will claim one airline/aircraft/airport is 'better'/'no different' than another. This type of discussion is actually interesting, rather than a p**sing contest.
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Old 31st Dec 2018, 12:04
  #2403 (permalink)  
 
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Brian..e tickets

From what I understood when I tried to buy one is that I still had to get one printed from the station ticket machine..or maybe I was trying the wrong app as it didn't give me the choice of using my phone for travel.
as for complaining to a bulldog behind the desk ..did that in the 70s and got off loaded from the aircraft in Jersey and told to get the boat back. The second was to the station chief in Vilnius after I caught her stealing from the aircraft.. nearly lost my command on that one and whilst the airline lasted forever had problems buying tickets and regularly down graded from business class..
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Old 31st Dec 2018, 12:18
  #2404 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by blind pew View Post
From what I understood when I tried to buy one is that I still had to get one printed from the station ticket machine..or maybe I was trying the wrong app as it didn't give me the choice of using my phone for travel.
It may depend on the app. The Trainline app gives a little pop-up to say mobile tickets are available, so acceptance may have changed. Not all tickets are available digitally. Anything with a TFL travelcard or cross London journey has to be printed on ticket stock, so if you were going beyond "London Terminals" you would have required a ticket in any case.
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Old 31st Dec 2018, 13:12
  #2405 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by brian_dromey View Post
It may depend on the app. The Trainline app gives a little pop-up to say mobile tickets are available, so acceptance may have changed. Not all tickets are available digitally. Anything with a TFL travelcard or cross London journey has to be printed on ticket stock, so if you were going beyond "London Terminals" you would have required a ticket in any case.
And they wonder why people just get in their cars...
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Old 31st Dec 2018, 15:06
  #2406 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by brian_dromey View Post
Absolutely, FR will know what they are doing for sure. But its interesting to learn why the standard 738 can't use SEN profitably. I had assumed it was a case of take-off performance being the issue, rather than landing, for example.
I calculated that the standard 738 could just carry 190 pax into SEN with a dry runway but that commercial operations were not viable due to the fact that it would be excessively payload restricted in WET conditions. Perhaps there is someone here with access to the OM and they could quantify that restriction accurately. The standard 738 does seem to have a higher Vapp than, say, the A320 so perhaps that is one of the reasons for its greater LDR.
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Old 31st Dec 2018, 15:24
  #2407 (permalink)  
 
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Both SEN and SOU ops using the 737-800 or the new MAX are not going to be economically viable for any LCC operator with the runways as they are.

The performance penalties and payload restrictions are too great - hence why no one has used this type to date at either airport in any numbers - same applies to GIB ops too.
Not gonna happen with a 738 or a MAX, they are slippery fast beasts on approach.

The 737-300 to the 700 series are very different beasts and all those types can op OK to/from the above airports.

My pal flies both 737 & Max at Norwegian (he is a skipper) - he has crunched numbers for ops in and out of SOU (and GIB) and the £££figures do not add up with the severe payload penalties

Assume SEN is very similar due to runway length - Is this why FR are switching to using Lauda's A320's??? - these aircraft are much more suitable for ops out of SEN and SOU

Time will see if Ryanair will be successful or not using its 738 out of SEN

Last edited by rog747; 31st Dec 2018 at 15:38.
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Old 31st Dec 2018, 15:32
  #2408 (permalink)  
 
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rog747

You musn't confuse the standard 738 with the 738SFP as the latter has been produced specifically to allow operations into airports which previously could not support viable 738 operations. Those aircraft with the SFP package can operate viably from SEN and, probably, from SOU as well.
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Old 31st Dec 2018, 15:49
  #2409 (permalink)  
 
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I'm not,
My pal at DI/D8 mentions the 737NG/SFP Short Field package option versions also suffer payload limitations when operating in 189 pax high density configurations

Time will tell if Ryanair make a go of it out of SEN with their 738 or MAX - The MAX is even more restricted
They quit Belfast Harbour BHD due to such limits
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Old 31st Dec 2018, 18:26
  #2410 (permalink)  
 
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Is SEN just getting standard grooving or will the runway be certified 'WSR'. Only a damp standard grooved runway can be considered dry for purposes of calculations. But WSR is a different beast and is prob required to keep the show on the road when the rain comes.

RYR quite happily operate in and out of Dortmund which has a LDA of 1700m, prob the shortest LDA in the existing network. But it has certification for WSR which makes a big difference.

The shortest I've operated quite a bit in to is in the region of 1800m and yes when wet and full pax its quite limiting in how much extra fuel one can have so 1600 is gonna be fun, especially combined with narrow runway ops!
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Old 31st Dec 2018, 21:22
  #2411 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by rog747 View Post
I'm not,
My pal at DI/D8 mentions the 737NG/SFP Short Field package option versions also suffer payload limitations when operating in 189 pax high density configurations

Time will tell if Ryanair make a go of it out of SEN with their 738 or MAX - The MAX is even more restricted
They quit Belfast Harbour BHD due to such limits

Well, that's a correct statement but the runway at BHD was going to be extended and the endless delays made FR walk (or fly if you prefer).

They know exactly what they're getting at SEN. A 1799m declared runway (which I believe is actually 1856m), and a LDA of 1604m. Plus additional paved extension which gives you close to 2000m. And I do understand that the declared distances are the only ones that can be used, but when distances stated are the absolute minimum requirement, surely additional paved distance would be taken into consideration by the decision makers.
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Old 1st Jan 2019, 07:25
  #2412 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by DC3 Dave View Post
They know exactly what they're getting at SEN. A 1799m declared runway (which I believe is actually 1856m), and a LDA of 1604m. Plus additional paved extension which gives you close to 2000m. And I do understand that the declared distances are the only ones that can be used, but when distances stated are the absolute minimum requirement, surely additional paved distance would be taken into consideration by the decision makers.
The total length of the paved strip is about 1950m with the pavement beyond the end of the 1604m LDA measuring 180m on 05 and 135m on 23. On 23 there is additional unpaved RESA of some 160m.
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Old 1st Jan 2019, 08:30
  #2413 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by 737aviator View Post
Is SEN just getting standard grooving or will the runway be certified 'WSR'. Only a damp standard grooved runway can be considered dry for purposes of calculations. But WSR is a different beast and is prob required to keep the show on the road when the rain comes.
WSR certification? I'm afraid I'm not familiar with that term.
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Old 1st Jan 2019, 09:33
  #2414 (permalink)  
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Doesn't it mean Wet Snow on Runway? Quite a rare experience for SEN.
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Old 1st Jan 2019, 10:02
  #2415 (permalink)  
 
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WSR is 'Wet Skid-Resistant'
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Old 1st Jan 2019, 10:09
  #2416 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by Barling Magna View Post
Doesn't it mean Wet Snow on Runway? Quite a rare experience for SEN.
HA HA! I like it .
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Old 1st Jan 2019, 11:18
  #2417 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by 737aviator View Post
WSR is 'Wet Skid-Resistant'
In order to achieve WSR 'certification' does the runway surface have to be 'roughened' to increase its macrotexture value and thus its Wet Skid-Resistance?
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Old 1st Jan 2019, 11:47
  #2418 (permalink)  
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Originally Posted by tophat27dt View Post
HA HA! I like it .
That's my Canadian origins revealed.........
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Old 1st Jan 2019, 13:40
  #2419 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by Barling Magna View Post
That's my Canadian origins revealed.........
Really? I never knew that!
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Old 2nd Jan 2019, 11:05
  #2420 (permalink)  
 
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No W(h)izz unfortunately...

But certainly whizz added to SEN...

Stobart state they have bought two robots which "whizz" around the airport to answer customer queries.
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