Flybe - 7
Deano777
I have absolutely no understanding of the comparable costs of operating E195/A320 a/c. Nor do I have any knowledge of how good/bad the current BEE management is.
I have no comment to make on either point. In fact, I can totally understand your comments about the present management & their operating decisions.
My point is that you could say, about ANY management, that they would not take operating & commercial decisions which would threaten the company's existence. Not the present, & not the past, managements of BEE. Rationally speaking, why would any management take decisions which hurt the company ?
And yet, they do !
You seem to have great faith in the present management. I hope that it is well founded; & I have no reason to dispute that it is not; or to suggest that the current lot HAVE made mistakes comparable to the last lot.
But, from my lowly position, I am not greatly impressed by what appears to be happening at BEE. I repeat, what management would take actions which threaten the wellbeing of any company ? &, I say again, regrettably many do ! I sincerely hope that we will not look back on another "botch up" in a few months time.
I have absolutely no understanding of the comparable costs of operating E195/A320 a/c. Nor do I have any knowledge of how good/bad the current BEE management is.
I have no comment to make on either point. In fact, I can totally understand your comments about the present management & their operating decisions.
My point is that you could say, about ANY management, that they would not take operating & commercial decisions which would threaten the company's existence. Not the present, & not the past, managements of BEE. Rationally speaking, why would any management take decisions which hurt the company ?
And yet, they do !
You seem to have great faith in the present management. I hope that it is well founded; & I have no reason to dispute that it is not; or to suggest that the current lot HAVE made mistakes comparable to the last lot.
But, from my lowly position, I am not greatly impressed by what appears to be happening at BEE. I repeat, what management would take actions which threaten the wellbeing of any company ? &, I say again, regrettably many do ! I sincerely hope that we will not look back on another "botch up" in a few months time.
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kcockayne
I completely understand what you are saying, and likewise, I have no idea on the comparable costs either. The previous incumbent would have sat there and done next to nothing to save the company. The E195 leasing deal was by all accounts, one of the worst aircraft leasing deals in living memory, all signed, sealed and delivered by our previous CEO who's background was baggage handling (no disrespect to rampies, they do an amazing job). The current management have at least recognised where the money was going and took some harsh decisions to keep the company from going under. They did this by the skin of their teeth and one of those decisions was to ground the 195 fleet because regardless of how many pax was on board they simply could not make money out of them or our customers would have run off to the competition. Personally it doesn't matter how much people don't like purple, it doesn't matter how much faith we have or have not in the management but one thing is certain, and that is we are in far safer hands now than we ever were. I just cannot see how Saad would fritter away money on a wet lease deal with Aer Lingus if there wasn't a significant saving over operating the 195 fleet on the routes. To think otherwise like some on here do just beggars belief.
I completely understand what you are saying, and likewise, I have no idea on the comparable costs either. The previous incumbent would have sat there and done next to nothing to save the company. The E195 leasing deal was by all accounts, one of the worst aircraft leasing deals in living memory, all signed, sealed and delivered by our previous CEO who's background was baggage handling (no disrespect to rampies, they do an amazing job). The current management have at least recognised where the money was going and took some harsh decisions to keep the company from going under. They did this by the skin of their teeth and one of those decisions was to ground the 195 fleet because regardless of how many pax was on board they simply could not make money out of them or our customers would have run off to the competition. Personally it doesn't matter how much people don't like purple, it doesn't matter how much faith we have or have not in the management but one thing is certain, and that is we are in far safer hands now than we ever were. I just cannot see how Saad would fritter away money on a wet lease deal with Aer Lingus if there wasn't a significant saving over operating the 195 fleet on the routes. To think otherwise like some on here do just beggars belief.
Kcockayne:
For gods sake; please look at the current Balance Sheet
and compare that to previous Balance Sheets under the old management.
It's crazy, ill informrd speculstion like this that shows "Pprune at its worst
For gods sake; please look at the current Balance Sheet
and compare that to previous Balance Sheets under the old management.
It's crazy, ill informrd speculstion like this that shows "Pprune at its worst
Deano777 & bean
Last word from me. I do not challenge anything that you say on the basis of my knowledge about it.
I have none.
I simply point out that the comment, "That's what the last lot would have said ", is appropriate in that we have, as yet, not seen where all of this is leading.
For everyone's sakes I hope that the current management is positively effective & that you all have secure futures.
&, I will not say, " I told you so", if all goes wrong. Because I am not "telling you so". Just pointing out that no one deliberately leads a company into ruin: & probably doesn't realise that it is doing so when it is doing that.
Last word from me. I do not challenge anything that you say on the basis of my knowledge about it.
I have none.
I simply point out that the comment, "That's what the last lot would have said ", is appropriate in that we have, as yet, not seen where all of this is leading.
For everyone's sakes I hope that the current management is positively effective & that you all have secure futures.
&, I will not say, " I told you so", if all goes wrong. Because I am not "telling you so". Just pointing out that no one deliberately leads a company into ruin: & probably doesn't realise that it is doing so when it is doing that.
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Yes Kcockayne and my point is if the current management have recognised (& they clearly have) what the root causes were as to why we were in a state then why would they go against decisions they've already taken? "Yes we've grounded the 195s because they were costing x to operate, but lets lease some A320s that cost the same or higher". It isn't going to happen. I will eat my car if it does.
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Remember Flybe did trial a 737 many years ago, when times were good. They even went as far as transferring a few of their Captains onto the type. And what happened? After about 2yrs they realised the 737 was too big and severed the contract. And those lucky few Cpts legged it with their 737 rating.
RHS
Just pointing out that most managements always think they are right - until they are proved not to be. The apparent inconsistencies & contradictions shown by the new BEE management may well prove to be a further example!
Just pointing out that most managements always think they are right - until they are proved not to be. The apparent inconsistencies & contradictions shown by the new BEE management may well prove to be a further example!
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Was the whole point of the sun routes not to utilies the jets which would otherwise be idle during business troughs at weekends? With the Embraers departing the fleet, the rationale to go toe to toe with the big boys is what exactly?
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The sun routes never really paid, the lease costs are too high. Flybe cannot charge more for the tickets otherwise customers will run off to the competition (SOU to LGW, EXT to BRS). Who said they are going up against the big boys? Where exactly is this stated? If and only if they lease an airbus it'll be to operate an already proven sun route network (in terms of pax numbers before you jump on the bandwagon) but at a cheaper cost to what they can currently be operated. I really don't know why you have to use rhetoric to over complicate it, and I really don't know what is so hard to understand. Did you read the report posted by Bean yesterday? If not I suggest you read it, and all 87 pages of it.
My understanding is that SOU are anxious (if not desperate) not to lose the sun routes, could some deal have been done? Hopefully nothing that would prejudice Condition 1 of their Public Use Aerodrome Licence,
ie "The aerodrome is licensed for public use and shall at all times when it is available for the take-off or landing of aircraft be so available to all persons on equal terms and conditions.
ie "The aerodrome is licensed for public use and shall at all times when it is available for the take-off or landing of aircraft be so available to all persons on equal terms and conditions.
Deano777
Closing a base (Aberdeen), then re-opening it. Getting rid of a night-stopping DH8 (at Jersey) for a 0700 'HI service, then re-instating both it & the service. Operating parallel services from EGHI & 'HH.
I'm not a lexicographer, but these seem to be examples of inconsistency & contradiction to me.
Closing a base (Aberdeen), then re-opening it. Getting rid of a night-stopping DH8 (at Jersey) for a 0700 'HI service, then re-instating both it & the service. Operating parallel services from EGHI & 'HH.
I'm not a lexicographer, but these seem to be examples of inconsistency & contradiction to me.
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What's project Blackbird for remaining 9 E195s? Had a flight through the document but don't see much about it. Unless it is to do with the White goods.
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kcockayne
And why does it not compute that Flybe had to get rid of costs RIGHT NOW, not tomorrow or yesterday, but immediately. We were days away from going under. What is so hard to understand? Having bases that had 2 based aircraft or less cost a fortune, nightstopping crews is cheaper - fact. This has already been discussed. How is that a contradiction? The ABZ base is opening with 4 aircraft, not two and not two of different types. JER was a 2 aircraft base, 1 Q400 and 1 E195. All bases with less than 3 aircraft cost a fortune, those with different types cost even more. Seriously, all the information has been available on flybe.com, but you can't pull out of it what you like, then put your own spin on it. Look at the facts - ALL the facts.
And why does it not compute that Flybe had to get rid of costs RIGHT NOW, not tomorrow or yesterday, but immediately. We were days away from going under. What is so hard to understand? Having bases that had 2 based aircraft or less cost a fortune, nightstopping crews is cheaper - fact. This has already been discussed. How is that a contradiction? The ABZ base is opening with 4 aircraft, not two and not two of different types. JER was a 2 aircraft base, 1 Q400 and 1 E195. All bases with less than 3 aircraft cost a fortune, those with different types cost even more. Seriously, all the information has been available on flybe.com, but you can't pull out of it what you like, then put your own spin on it. Look at the facts - ALL the facts.
Deano777
I TOTALLY accept what you say about the need to make decisions & take effective action. No argument.
I simply state that some of these have been reversed a few months later - which tends to prove that they should not have been made at the time; or, what is now back in place, could have been left in place.
I'm not trying to "run down" the company, just explaining what I feel could have been badly handled. Certainly, it would seem that some of these decisions were hastily taken.
And, add another to that :- making pilots redundant & then re-hiring them & taking on others , either from agencies or new recruits. In some cases (for the agency pilots) flying their old aeroplanesagain ie. the ones that they used to fly when they worked for BEE !
I TOTALLY accept what you say about the need to make decisions & take effective action. No argument.
I simply state that some of these have been reversed a few months later - which tends to prove that they should not have been made at the time; or, what is now back in place, could have been left in place.
I'm not trying to "run down" the company, just explaining what I feel could have been badly handled. Certainly, it would seem that some of these decisions were hastily taken.
And, add another to that :- making pilots redundant & then re-hiring them & taking on others , either from agencies or new recruits. In some cases (for the agency pilots) flying their old aeroplanesagain ie. the ones that they used to fly when they worked for BEE !
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Who said they are going up against the big boys? Where exactly is this stated?
btw How can someone be new with 807 posts ?
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But they wouldn't be going up against the "big boys" out of Gatters and FR out of BOH. We already operate sun routes out of these destinations and if we can find a way to still operate them at a reduced cost then how does this change the concept of what we are offering at the moment and in the past? It doesn't.
Why does it say "I am new here" on my profile? Who knows, ask the mods. I sure as hell have several times and have received nothing back. What relevance does that have to anything?
Why does it say "I am new here" on my profile? Who knows, ask the mods. I sure as hell have several times and have received nothing back. What relevance does that have to anything?