Flybe and Ryanair to create new airline
That too is true and from Ireland that may well be the case. I was only really playing devils advocate. That being said if we think hypotyrtically even one step further ahead lets not forget how MOL would revel in offering the cheapest T/A "fare" on the market from a PR perspective, and too stick one right on the big LHR/BAA establishment nose. Lest we forget MAG are going to have little choice but to be very cozy with FR in the short and medium term and would break their own backs for all new scheduled T/A services from STN in particular.
MAN-SNN then SNN-JFK where no T/A APD and clear US Immigration so no delays in JFK.
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Full service on a TA flight comes much more into play on longer sectors and Im not sure a low cost TA FR in the current model would work. Look at all the failures at attempts at low cost longhaul. MOL is not daft. Although if anyone could do it it would be FR.
I still dont really understand the FR interest in EI, surely they could just do everything EI does and more right now
I still dont really understand the FR interest in EI, surely they could just do everything EI does and more right now
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CabinCrewe
That's because it's about not just being a bigger airline but about killing the others. MoL worked assidously until he could prove with the numbers that they carried more pax in a year than BA and that, therefore, HE was the world's favourite. He NEEDED to show the Brits that the Paddy was better than them. I have heard him use the term 'Paddy' in interviews because he is so proud of being Irish. The fact that many of the things he does makes people hate him - does not bother him in the slightest.
Now, it appears, he needs to prove himself in his own land. Because he has been sidelined and treated with disdain by many in Ireland - he wants to prove he's the best by killing his enemy, EI. One of the reasons he has been so successful (in financial terms and they are the only ones he's interested in) is because he doesn't care about anything other than the numbers.
I'm sure he's a wonderful guest at dinner parties ...
I still dont really understand the FR interest in EI, surely they could just do everything EI does and more right now.
Now, it appears, he needs to prove himself in his own land. Because he has been sidelined and treated with disdain by many in Ireland - he wants to prove he's the best by killing his enemy, EI. One of the reasons he has been so successful (in financial terms and they are the only ones he's interested in) is because he doesn't care about anything other than the numbers.
I'm sure he's a wonderful guest at dinner parties ...
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I'm sure he's a wonderful guest at dinner parties ...
That's a curious sign off. I doubt it, unless you are a good listener and don't want to engage in adult conversation. Bring ointment for your ears.
That's a curious sign off. I doubt it, unless you are a good listener and don't want to engage in adult conversation. Bring ointment for your ears.
Paxing All Over The World
Sorry RAT 5. It's a rather typical English sideswipe and probably should have put 
at the end.
But it would be fascinating to see him close up. (and I'm not joking!)
at the end.But it would be fascinating to see him close up. (and I'm not joking!)
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Methinks Mr French is being bedazzled by the prospect of a short term cash injection, which Flybe badly needs, and ignoring what might happen after three years. The entire philosophy of Flybe was to avoid competing with the big boys by operating smaller gauge aircraft on thinner routes. Now they are proposing to add similar gauge aircraft (yet another type to integrate) and go head to head with not only Mr O'Leary but also Ms McCall, Mr Walsh and others. Flybe are unlikely to have the depth of management to run such diverse ops - ATRs in Finland, A320s in Ireland. What happened to "sticking to the knitting"!?
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If Mr French had to wait 10 years to draw a bonus would he still find the proposition as attractive?
Resurgam, I like your humour. You could also draw Flybe as a moth burning its wings against the landing lights of a Ryanair 737.
Resurgam, I like your humour. You could also draw Flybe as a moth burning its wings against the landing lights of a Ryanair 737.
Paxing All Over The World
To be unkind but this is my opinion, FlyBe have probably been on to a loser for some time. They are in a VERY narrow niche and with the recession likely to run another 5+ years, the chances of making it were always going to be slender. I hope they make it as they are a nice crowd (the few times I've used them) and I think their approach valid. Just, not so much in this era.
I suspect it's more a question of How and When they stop, rather than If. Again, my apologies but they are being squeezed by the big boys above and the coach and the train and the sheer lack of money on the other.
I suspect it's more a question of How and When they stop, rather than If. Again, my apologies but they are being squeezed by the big boys above and the coach and the train and the sheer lack of money on the other.
Last edited by PAXboy; 8th Feb 2013 at 17:26.
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Who really knows what's going on inside MOL's head? For sure if he's going to start long haul he's do it out of Dublin where the APD is just €3-€5,using feed from all over Europe, but of course if this was a through ticket from the UK you would pay APD to the USA even going via Dublin, so i would guess he'll basically say book with us to the USA from Dublin and catch a flight to Dublin.
He will know soon enough if the low cost model long haul works with Norwegian set to start service from Oslo in a few months time, having said that Norwegians current product offering is much better than the minimal offering from Ryanair, Ryanair are safe, on time & cheap, but with zero customer care or service, which is fine for a quick blast to France or Spain, but I am not sure i would want 6 hours of scratch cards sales.
He will know soon enough if the low cost model long haul works with Norwegian set to start service from Oslo in a few months time, having said that Norwegians current product offering is much better than the minimal offering from Ryanair, Ryanair are safe, on time & cheap, but with zero customer care or service, which is fine for a quick blast to France or Spain, but I am not sure i would want 6 hours of scratch cards sales.
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Thinking back to the 1980's isn't this just another re-run of the GEC-Plessey debacle?
GEC's Boss Sir Arnold Weinstock hated Plessey's Sir John Clark and was determined to shut Plessey down one way or another. He tried unsuccessfully on many occasions to buy out Plessey, but was shot down in flames by the then Monopolies and Mergers Commission on the grounds that it would establish a single source for UK Defence Electronics.
So GEC teamed up with Siemens and re-applied... and was successful in his very first application under the new name GEC-Siemens.
Result? Plessey was bought out, asset stripped, GEC got exactly the parts of Plessey that he had been after all the time and Siemens got the sweepings-up.
Plessey disappeared off the face of the map within two years. Weinstock was elated...
Poetic justice however came a few years later when GEC Avionics was taken over by B.Ae.
We have seen similar instances in the last five years or so... BA get together with Iberia to form IAG and promptly shut down British Midland. More asset stripping and the loss of a another major British Company. The appears to be a slight difference slight difference in this example however in that one of the co-signatories seems to be hell bent on destroying the other...
pp
GEC's Boss Sir Arnold Weinstock hated Plessey's Sir John Clark and was determined to shut Plessey down one way or another. He tried unsuccessfully on many occasions to buy out Plessey, but was shot down in flames by the then Monopolies and Mergers Commission on the grounds that it would establish a single source for UK Defence Electronics.
So GEC teamed up with Siemens and re-applied... and was successful in his very first application under the new name GEC-Siemens.
Result? Plessey was bought out, asset stripped, GEC got exactly the parts of Plessey that he had been after all the time and Siemens got the sweepings-up.
Plessey disappeared off the face of the map within two years. Weinstock was elated...
Poetic justice however came a few years later when GEC Avionics was taken over by B.Ae.
We have seen similar instances in the last five years or so... BA get together with Iberia to form IAG and promptly shut down British Midland. More asset stripping and the loss of a another major British Company. The appears to be a slight difference slight difference in this example however in that one of the co-signatories seems to be hell bent on destroying the other...
pp
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Flybe and Ryanair plan to create new airline Flybe Ireland
Flybe, the loss-making British airline, and Ryanair have agreed to create Flybe Ireland, if the Irish low-cost carrier's bid for rival Aer Lingus is successful.
Flybe said on Wednesday the two had reached agreement over the possible transfer of aircraft, staff and routes.
The deal is part of Ryanair's attempt to win approval from the European Commission for its third attempt to take over Aer Lingus. The airline needs to make concessions to ensure Irish air travel remains competitive.
Flybe said it would pay Ryanair €1m (£866,000) for the newly created airline.
The deal would see Ryanair transfer to Flybe Ireland 43 European routes, at least nine Airbus A320 aircraft and an undisclosed number of flight crew, engineers, management and facilities to operate the business.
The Irish low-cost carrier will also provide Flybe Ireland with a cash injection of €100m and forward sales cash and liabilities worth around €50m.
Flybe, which is a low-cost regional airline group operating over 180 routes to 65 European airports, is looking to reduce its reliance on revenues from Britain.
"The terms of the deal negotiated ensure that Flybe Ireland will be a well-capitalised, well-funded company, enabling us to deliver upon that strategic aim," said Flybe chief executive Jim French.
Flybe said the deal was would move the airline away from its reliance on UK revenue and Flybe Ireland would start with around €150m of cash on the balance sheet.
However, Mr French added: "Before Flybe Ireland can come into being there are many hurdles to overcome, not least the EC accepting the remedies offered by Ryanair in its offer to take over Aer Lingus, and then the shareholders of Aer Lingus accepting an offer from Ryanair."
Flybe said on Wednesday the two had reached agreement over the possible transfer of aircraft, staff and routes.
The deal is part of Ryanair's attempt to win approval from the European Commission for its third attempt to take over Aer Lingus. The airline needs to make concessions to ensure Irish air travel remains competitive.
Flybe said it would pay Ryanair €1m (£866,000) for the newly created airline.
The deal would see Ryanair transfer to Flybe Ireland 43 European routes, at least nine Airbus A320 aircraft and an undisclosed number of flight crew, engineers, management and facilities to operate the business.
The Irish low-cost carrier will also provide Flybe Ireland with a cash injection of €100m and forward sales cash and liabilities worth around €50m.
Flybe, which is a low-cost regional airline group operating over 180 routes to 65 European airports, is looking to reduce its reliance on revenues from Britain.
"The terms of the deal negotiated ensure that Flybe Ireland will be a well-capitalised, well-funded company, enabling us to deliver upon that strategic aim," said Flybe chief executive Jim French.
Flybe said the deal was would move the airline away from its reliance on UK revenue and Flybe Ireland would start with around €150m of cash on the balance sheet.
However, Mr French added: "Before Flybe Ireland can come into being there are many hurdles to overcome, not least the EC accepting the remedies offered by Ryanair in its offer to take over Aer Lingus, and then the shareholders of Aer Lingus accepting an offer from Ryanair."
The deal is part of Ryanair's attempt to win approval from the European Commission for its third attempt to take over Aer Lingus. The airline needs to make concessions to ensure Irish air travel remains competitive.
See EC dismisses Ryanair's Aer Lingus bid and deal with Flybe - www.travelweekly.co.uk
No doubt Ryanair will appeal, but I doubt whether they'll have much success.
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No doubt Ryanair will appeal, but I doubt whether they'll have much success.
Last edited by StoneyBridge Radar; 6th Mar 2013 at 08:29.
