BIRMINGHAM - 6
Join Date: Aug 2016
Location: Oban, Scotland
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Who pays for HMRC/Border Agency personnel? The airport? The airlines? I hope it isn't the general taxpayer, in which case those who choose to fly abroad are being subsidised by those who don't.
I hope it isn't the general taxpayer, in which case those who choose to fly abroad are being subsidised by those who don't.
Anyway, back to BHX.
Join Date: Jul 2015
Location: Scotland
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HMRC don't have a presence at any airport their ports function was merged with port function of UKBA (Immigration) this became Border Force. Border Force is the primary Law Enforcement agency in the areas of Immigration & Customs, they also support the Police in Counter Terrorism and areas of policing. They also carry out functions in many other areas for other government agencies like Defra & NCA. The UKBA was disbanded 8 years ago. They are funded by HM Government the same as all Police services. Like the Police they have had savage cuts to staffing i.e. 50% of their staffing because of austerity. Whilst the U.K. pax numbers are increasing the queues have to increase you can't make officers appear from thin air. Now if you want to blame anyone, their address is 10 Downing Str, London. This is before the explosion of Brexit, which will mean millions more passengers will need to be interviewed before entering the UK. As this is BHX thread, it's an unfortunate situation that BHX, GLA & EDI are suffering the most as the dept has prioritised its spending at LHR, LGW and Calais.
s this is BHX thread, it's an unfortunate situation that BHX, GLA & EDI are suffering the most as the dept has prioritised its spending at LHR, LGW and Calais.
Join Date: Aug 2016
Location: Oban, Scotland
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This is not as straightforward as it seems. After all, football clubs etc pay for the enhanced police presence in and around their stadia. It is at least arguable that if the air travel industry wants an enhanced presence 24/7 then they should pay for it. Remember that much ?most of the airline traffic is using non-uk airlines who don't pay UK taxes.
Totally different, it's not the law that football clubs exist and that people are compelled to go to them.
The law is that you can't enter or leave the UK without a valid passport, and that the UK wishes to control 100% of arrivals at the border, therefore it is HM Government's responsibility to provide adequate coverage across the entire UK from general taxation. It is not the fault of the airlines or air travel industry that the UK is not in Schengen which if it were, would move the bottleneck forward to the airport baggage handling and reclaim systems which are at present shielded by the delays at UK Border.
The law is that you can't enter or leave the UK without a valid passport, and that the UK wishes to control 100% of arrivals at the border, therefore it is HM Government's responsibility to provide adequate coverage across the entire UK from general taxation. It is not the fault of the airlines or air travel industry that the UK is not in Schengen which if it were, would move the bottleneck forward to the airport baggage handling and reclaim systems which are at present shielded by the delays at UK Border.
Join Date: Aug 2016
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People aren't compelled to go on holiday abroad either. Not exactly the same, but there is a tendency to charge users for public services, just as benefits are 'targetted' at those felt to deserve them.
Join Date: Jul 2017
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ATNotts there are no regulations that you must carry a passport to leave the UK at all.
The UK does not currently operate any exit controls, cepting for juniors considered at risk of abduction usually by own parents and those the social services deem at risk of FGM typically traveling to certain African countries in the main (this may well change in the future - indeed the UK GOV have tried to implement exit controls/counting before however both cost and the illegality within the EU scuppered those plans dead)
Indeed legally you don't current need a passport to travel within the EU even outside of the schengan areas or between the CTA between Eire and the UK.
All you need is an officially recognised ID document.
For many that's simply their national ID card or even an EU style driving license.
Now by default and classically of UK beurocracy we haven't registered our driving licenses as EU recongised documents, and haven't even managed to offer an effective ID card system compliant with the EU regulation.
The last time UK GOV tried to create an ID card system it was cancelled on cost and after public outcry. So defacto the passport (With all its costs and voluntary nature bearing in mind the state can refuse issuance)becomes the only recognised UK document by default.
Airlines and airports choose to demand official ID to comply with DOT/CAA screening regulations only and to ensure its the same body checking in/collecting boarding card and clearing those Lovely long security checks (which are primarily there to control/deny restricted materials entering the airside environment) and that finally arrives at the departure gate with requisite boarding card in hand.
The UK does not currently operate any exit controls, cepting for juniors considered at risk of abduction usually by own parents and those the social services deem at risk of FGM typically traveling to certain African countries in the main (this may well change in the future - indeed the UK GOV have tried to implement exit controls/counting before however both cost and the illegality within the EU scuppered those plans dead)
Indeed legally you don't current need a passport to travel within the EU even outside of the schengan areas or between the CTA between Eire and the UK.
All you need is an officially recognised ID document.
For many that's simply their national ID card or even an EU style driving license.
Now by default and classically of UK beurocracy we haven't registered our driving licenses as EU recongised documents, and haven't even managed to offer an effective ID card system compliant with the EU regulation.
The last time UK GOV tried to create an ID card system it was cancelled on cost and after public outcry. So defacto the passport (With all its costs and voluntary nature bearing in mind the state can refuse issuance)becomes the only recognised UK document by default.
Airlines and airports choose to demand official ID to comply with DOT/CAA screening regulations only and to ensure its the same body checking in/collecting boarding card and clearing those Lovely long security checks (which are primarily there to control/deny restricted materials entering the airside environment) and that finally arrives at the departure gate with requisite boarding card in hand.
Last edited by Rutan16; 23rd Jul 2017 at 16:46.
Join Date: Feb 2004
Location: Manchester, UK
Age: 51
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Good point Oban, I don't go to school, or have kids at school...I am not contributing any longer towards Education. My house has never burnt down either, so the Fire service can run and jump too 
Primera Air
Just, out of curiosity, browsed the Primera website, and come across this page regarding fees and charges
https://primeraair.com/travel-info/fees/
Can they really be serious? £ 7.00 transaction fee 9well I suppose it's a transaction fee not per seat), £ 60.00 for a "Premium Beef Meal" (£30 for a "standard" beef meal) - crickey, I can spend £ 60.00 per person and get a really good 3 course meal in a half decent restaurant in Nottingham.
Their fares may be low, their add-ons are "Ryanairesque"!
You need to scroll down the page towards the bottom as the first tranche of fees are European services.
https://primeraair.com/travel-info/fees/
Can they really be serious? £ 7.00 transaction fee 9well I suppose it's a transaction fee not per seat), £ 60.00 for a "Premium Beef Meal" (£30 for a "standard" beef meal) - crickey, I can spend £ 60.00 per person and get a really good 3 course meal in a half decent restaurant in Nottingham.
Their fares may be low, their add-ons are "Ryanairesque"!
You need to scroll down the page towards the bottom as the first tranche of fees are European services.
One wonders what the difference between a Premium and standard beef or fish meal is. Fillet of horse? by the time you've added the extras that are free with a legacy carrier you might as well use MAN or LHR. All it will cost extra is time.
Leaping to Primera's defence I have noticed from further research (I must be bored today!) that mid range fares showing on the .co.uk website do include a meal and bags, and buying those fares does appear to come out somewhat cheaper than taking the no frills fare, then adding the stuff you want - assuming you want to take a hold bag and have some sustenance during the flight.
I guess they're hoping people will click on the basic fare because it's cheap, then not realise they could do a better deal taking the higher fare with many of the add ons included. Perhaps not a bad business strategy, but I'm sure some consumer groups would whinge about it being underhand / unfair or whatever else.
I guess they're hoping people will click on the basic fare because it's cheap, then not realise they could do a better deal taking the higher fare with many of the add ons included. Perhaps not a bad business strategy, but I'm sure some consumer groups would whinge about it being underhand / unfair or whatever else.
Join Date: Apr 2012
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That's exactly how airline psychology works.
Ryanair, Vueling, Easyjet and the likes have been doing it for years. The low basic fare brings punters in, ancillaries create the healthy profit and whether people book onto them unknowingly afterwards or just selecting the higher fare in the first place is each to their own.
Ryanair, Vueling, Easyjet and the likes have been doing it for years. The low basic fare brings punters in, ancillaries create the healthy profit and whether people book onto them unknowingly afterwards or just selecting the higher fare in the first place is each to their own.
Appreciate that, but it's one thing going without food for 3 or 4 hours, quite another for 8+ hours. Not chucking in some kind of snack (sandwich, cake or whatever with coffee, tea or soft drink) on long haul is a bit rich. Of course you can always take a mortgage on a curled up airport sandwich and bag of crisps!!
Join Date: Feb 2005
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As mentioned above, the .com site mentions lots of extra charges. The .co.uk site does not mention any extra charges. I have a feeling the .com site is for mainland Europe operations and .co.uk is for the UK.
Join Date: Nov 2006
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Appreciate that, but it's one thing going without food for 3 or 4 hours, quite another for 8+ hours. Not chucking in some kind of snack (sandwich, cake or whatever with coffee, tea or soft drink) on long haul is a bit rich. Of course you can always take a mortgage on a curled up airport sandwich and bag of crisps!!
Upgrades and ancillary costs make up for a lot extra revenue for low cost airlines whether they are long haul or short haul and giving away free food and drinks is not part of that policy, like it or not you buy your own food and drink onboard which most passengers accept when flying these days.
After all it's nothing new even Laker and People Express were doing this in the 1980's
Just to add, have you tried Pret A Manger? Baguettes from £4.50 and you don't need a mortgage for that price and they are definitely not curled up!