BER not before 2014 !
Join Date: Jul 2001
Location: UK
Posts: 1,642
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
I came out of Schonefeld as self-loading freight yesterday. A hell-hole for Pax.
Two years ago, Easyjet passengers including me were herded into a too-small room before leaving for the bus to plane. No loos, inadequate seating, no PA, no information, at least half hour wait.
Yesterday:
Easyjet passengers were herded into a too-small room before leaving for bus to plane. No loos, inadequate seating, no PA, no information, at least half hour wait.
The shadow of the DDR and the Stasi still hangs over Schonefeld. Lots of in-your-face glitter for duty-free, but a **** experience.
Two years ago, Easyjet passengers including me were herded into a too-small room before leaving for the bus to plane. No loos, inadequate seating, no PA, no information, at least half hour wait.
Yesterday:
Easyjet passengers were herded into a too-small room before leaving for bus to plane. No loos, inadequate seating, no PA, no information, at least half hour wait.
The shadow of the DDR and the Stasi still hangs over Schonefeld. Lots of in-your-face glitter for duty-free, but a **** experience.
Stats for 2015 are out. Tegel and Schonefeld airports grew by a combined 5.6 %
BER has a design capacity of 27 million pax while the two existing airports saw over 29.5 million pax
http://adv.aero/service/downloadbibliothek/
A planned opening date of October 2017 may not be met
http://www.dw.com/en/berlins-new-air...lay/a-19107260
BER has a design capacity of 27 million pax while the two existing airports saw over 29.5 million pax
http://adv.aero/service/downloadbibliothek/
A planned opening date of October 2017 may not be met
http://www.dw.com/en/berlins-new-air...lay/a-19107260
Last edited by davidjohnson6; 12th Mar 2016 at 13:23. Reason: Add weblink
Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: Belgium
Posts: 185
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Stats for 2015 are out. Tegel and Schonefeld airports grew by a combined 5.6 %
BER has a design capacity of 27 million pax while the two existing airports saw over 29.5 million pax
BER has a design capacity of 27 million pax while the two existing airports saw over 29.5 million pax
Still, far from ideal.
Stats for 2015 are out. Tegel and Schonefeld airports grew by a combined 5.6 %
BER has a design capacity of 27 million pax while the two existing airports saw over 29.5 million pax
BER has a design capacity of 27 million pax while the two existing airports saw over 29.5 million pax
Join Date: May 2013
Location: Gateshead, UK
Age: 25
Posts: 1,168
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
It would almost appear as if Berlin has gone from 3 perfectly functioning airports, each filling a role/niche and each with a role to play in the city's future... To two over-stressed, over-capacity, under-invested airports which by all accounts are in a complete state right now due to the fact that they are struggling to cope... Oh and lets not forget the outrageous white elephant which itself seems to have very little place in Berlin's future, be it short term from which it will be completely absent, or long term where it will probably need immediate expansion. Expanding Tegel probably doesn't seem like such a bad idea now
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: In a house
Posts: 104
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Sounds like a little competition is required.
Berlin Airports controlled 3 airports:
Tempelhof - a business or city airport which could have survived and operated in the London City commuter niche. Unfortunately, it has already CLOSED.
Tegel - home to Air Berlin, and regional base for Lufthansa Group. BURSTING with little new investment due to the 'imminent' opening of BER.
Schonefeld - former GDR building which turned into a LCC hub for Easyjet and Ryanair (and previously Germanwings). BURSTING with little new investment.
And of course, the sleeping White Elephant.
With private competition rather than local political interference and a monopoly position, Berlin like London could have had 3 independent competing airports offering differing products for alternative markets. Alas only 2 airports remain, but if Berlin Airports were forced to sell Tegel to a private operator, the cash gained from the sale may eventually push them to finish and open BER.
BER would then become a hub for network carriers, offering long-haul connections.
A natural home for Air Berlin and LH group.
TXL would then remain open, run by a new owner and offer an alternative product focussed on short-medium haul routes.
As to which airport would become the base for easyJet, Ryanair, Norwegian etc would be subject to competing commercial agreements. As is the case with LHR, LGW, STN and LTN.
I'm amazed that free market competition can still be stifled within an EU country.
But then again with ADP controlling all Paris Airports, ANA controlling all Portuguese airports, AENA controlling all Spanish airports, perhaps a free market isn't what Europe is about these days. Little seems to have changed from the days of the GDR.
Berlin Airports controlled 3 airports:
Tempelhof - a business or city airport which could have survived and operated in the London City commuter niche. Unfortunately, it has already CLOSED.
Tegel - home to Air Berlin, and regional base for Lufthansa Group. BURSTING with little new investment due to the 'imminent' opening of BER.
Schonefeld - former GDR building which turned into a LCC hub for Easyjet and Ryanair (and previously Germanwings). BURSTING with little new investment.
And of course, the sleeping White Elephant.
With private competition rather than local political interference and a monopoly position, Berlin like London could have had 3 independent competing airports offering differing products for alternative markets. Alas only 2 airports remain, but if Berlin Airports were forced to sell Tegel to a private operator, the cash gained from the sale may eventually push them to finish and open BER.
BER would then become a hub for network carriers, offering long-haul connections.
A natural home for Air Berlin and LH group.
TXL would then remain open, run by a new owner and offer an alternative product focussed on short-medium haul routes.
As to which airport would become the base for easyJet, Ryanair, Norwegian etc would be subject to competing commercial agreements. As is the case with LHR, LGW, STN and LTN.
I'm amazed that free market competition can still be stifled within an EU country.
But then again with ADP controlling all Paris Airports, ANA controlling all Portuguese airports, AENA controlling all Spanish airports, perhaps a free market isn't what Europe is about these days. Little seems to have changed from the days of the GDR.
I'm not totally convinced by the idea that competing airports is the panacea for all ill - if anything it drives costs down, largely through under staffing and an over reliance on the "shopping experience".
I can't see that the competing airports in Southeast England has done a great deal to improve passenger satisfaction, or to resolve the capacity problem there.
BER is undoubtedly a disaster, but I can't see that breaking the monopoly of ownership / operation would have made a fat lot of difference - better planning (something that in general Germany is good at) would have done the trick.
I can't see that the competing airports in Southeast England has done a great deal to improve passenger satisfaction, or to resolve the capacity problem there.
BER is undoubtedly a disaster, but I can't see that breaking the monopoly of ownership / operation would have made a fat lot of difference - better planning (something that in general Germany is good at) would have done the trick.
Join Date: Dec 2011
Location: Middlesex (under the flightpath)
Posts: 1,946
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Sounds like a little competition is required.
Berlin Airports controlled 3 airports:
Tempelhof - a business or city airport which could have survived and operated in the London City commuter niche. Unfortunately, it has already CLOSED.
Tegel - home to Air Berlin, and regional base for Lufthansa Group. BURSTING with little new investment due to the 'imminent' opening of BER.
Schonefeld - former GDR building which turned into a LCC hub for Easyjet and Ryanair (and previously Germanwings). BURSTING with little new investment.
And of course, the sleeping White Elephant.
With private competition rather than local political interference and a monopoly position, Berlin like London could have had 3 independent competing airports offering differing products for alternative markets. Alas only 2 airports remain, but if Berlin Airports were forced to sell Tegel to a private operator, the cash gained from the sale may eventually push them to finish and open BER.
BER would then become a hub for network carriers, offering long-haul connections.
A natural home for Air Berlin and LH group.
TXL would then remain open, run by a new owner and offer an alternative product focussed on short-medium haul routes.
As to which airport would become the base for easyJet, Ryanair, Norwegian etc would be subject to competing commercial agreements. As is the case with LHR, LGW, STN and LTN.
I'm amazed that free market competition can still be stifled within an EU country.
But then again with ADP controlling all Paris Airports, ANA controlling all Portuguese airports, AENA controlling all Spanish airports, perhaps a free market isn't what Europe is about these days. Little seems to have changed from the days of the GDR.
Berlin Airports controlled 3 airports:
Tempelhof - a business or city airport which could have survived and operated in the London City commuter niche. Unfortunately, it has already CLOSED.
Tegel - home to Air Berlin, and regional base for Lufthansa Group. BURSTING with little new investment due to the 'imminent' opening of BER.
Schonefeld - former GDR building which turned into a LCC hub for Easyjet and Ryanair (and previously Germanwings). BURSTING with little new investment.
And of course, the sleeping White Elephant.
With private competition rather than local political interference and a monopoly position, Berlin like London could have had 3 independent competing airports offering differing products for alternative markets. Alas only 2 airports remain, but if Berlin Airports were forced to sell Tegel to a private operator, the cash gained from the sale may eventually push them to finish and open BER.
BER would then become a hub for network carriers, offering long-haul connections.
A natural home for Air Berlin and LH group.
TXL would then remain open, run by a new owner and offer an alternative product focussed on short-medium haul routes.
As to which airport would become the base for easyJet, Ryanair, Norwegian etc would be subject to competing commercial agreements. As is the case with LHR, LGW, STN and LTN.
I'm amazed that free market competition can still be stifled within an EU country.
But then again with ADP controlling all Paris Airports, ANA controlling all Portuguese airports, AENA controlling all Spanish airports, perhaps a free market isn't what Europe is about these days. Little seems to have changed from the days of the GDR.
I'm not totally convinced by the idea that competing airports is the panacea for all ill - if anything it drives costs down, largely through under staffing and an over reliance on the "shopping experience".
I can't see that the competing airports in Southeast England has done a great deal to improve passenger satisfaction, or to resolve the capacity problem there.
BER is undoubtedly a disaster, but I can't see that breaking the monopoly of ownership / operation would have made a fat lot of difference - better planning (something that in general Germany is good at) would have done the trick.
I can't see that the competing airports in Southeast England has done a great deal to improve passenger satisfaction, or to resolve the capacity problem there.
BER is undoubtedly a disaster, but I can't see that breaking the monopoly of ownership / operation would have made a fat lot of difference - better planning (something that in general Germany is good at) would have done the trick.
LHR specialises in legacy carriers, short and longhaul routes, cargo, premium pax that the carriers all crave (so are prepared to pay millions for a slot pair);
LTN specialises in no frills carriers, holiday flights and charters, mostly shorthaul;
STN specialises in no frills carriers, holiday flights, charters, mostly shorthaul, and cargo ;
LCY is a niche airport mainly serving the London business areas (The City and Canary Wharf), all shorthaul except JFK.
LGW is a mixture of the above and functions as LHR's waiting room.
The result is almost no competition, the airport used depends on type of carrier, type of journey and destination. For real competition to exist, there needs to be excess capacity so that supply exceeds demand, giving punters genuine choice.
This is clearly not the case in London, nor would it be in Berlin. Note the comments about TXL becoming a home for no frills carriers under Berlin "competition", it sounds more like specialisation.
"competition" is also an illusion in UK railways, and in the UK gas and electricity markets. Also, before getting all "gung-ho" about privatisation, please be aware that privatisated airports are very much the exception worldwide. Maybe ask why this is the case.
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: Europe
Posts: 970
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Now seems that Berlin's airport is unlikely to open before 2019
BER now unlikely to open before 2019 - Business Traveller
BER now unlikely to open before 2019 - Business Traveller
Thread Starter
Just passed through SXF - few observations:
Work on terminal B has been completed - it is now more spacious - nothing earth shaking but definite improvement.
Terminal C is now actively pushed as a fast lane (ie hand baggage only) checkpoint. Seems relatively efficient but I am under the impression that staff has been reassigned from terminal A. Not sure that the overall capacity has really changed that much.
Some landscaping work in progress in front of the terminals - Not sure what is is about
No visible work on or in BER buildings
Work on terminal B has been completed - it is now more spacious - nothing earth shaking but definite improvement.
Terminal C is now actively pushed as a fast lane (ie hand baggage only) checkpoint. Seems relatively efficient but I am under the impression that staff has been reassigned from terminal A. Not sure that the overall capacity has really changed that much.
Some landscaping work in progress in front of the terminals - Not sure what is is about
No visible work on or in BER buildings