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Ryanair - 9

Old 13th Oct 2012, 12:33
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Wonder why they didn't announce why the extra two aircraft which were due to be based from November are not coming. It would alos say that FR are not going to meet there passenger numbers they said but thats nothing new as they don't at any airport.
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Old 13th Oct 2012, 14:44
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Didn`t know 2 were coming in November, I thought that was next summer

Ian
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Old 13th Oct 2012, 15:59
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The base will be two for winter. The plan was for 4 year round.
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Old 16th Oct 2012, 19:52
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Ryanair investigated by Italian authorities for tax and social insurance scam

Ryanair probed for social security evasion in Italy-source | Reuters
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Old 17th Oct 2012, 03:01
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Ryanair accused in northern Italy of evading tax to value of €12m - The Irish Times - Wed, Oct 17, 2012
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Old 17th Oct 2012, 08:09
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Exclamation Trouble ahead

Ryanair probed for social security evasion in Italy-source | Reuters

The bureaucratic wheels in Italy grind slowly, but they get there eventually. This is going to cause Ryanair a lot of pain, they can't spin this one away. Much like the French they will decide what is what and no amount of spin and bull$hit from the PR department is going to make this go away in FRs biggest market outside the UK.
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Old 17th Oct 2012, 09:34
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Let's see if they pull a tantrum and leave like they did in France. Considering the size of Ryanair's Italian market share that would affect their bottom line a lot more than pulling out of France (a single base) did.
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Old 17th Oct 2012, 10:03
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Is similar not being done here, but more likely BA and Virgin crew being investigated?

Taxman comes down on aircrew

Marie Woolf Published: 7 October 2012



PILOTS, assume the brace position — the taxman is on his way. HM Revenue & Customs (HMRC) is putting the squeeze on aircrew who avoid income tax by saying they do not reside in Britain.
Some 2,300 pilots and air stewards do this on the basis of the time they spend mid-air and in other time zones, although most have homes, bank accounts and even children in Britain.
Crew who spend less than 183 days a year in the UK have claimed non-UK residency status and so have not paid tax for years. But HMRC is now warning flight crew that spending time abroad may no longer be sufficient qualification for non-residency.
As a result of recent court cases establishing that prolonged overseas travel alone does not constitute non-residency, the taxman is writing to pilots and flight attendants who have “significant ties to the UK” to inform them that they may...
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Old 17th Oct 2012, 10:07
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This is most certainly a result of the current dire economical situation. When the state coffers are empty, the taxman comes knocking (more often and more persistently than before ).

Last edited by Dg800; 17th Oct 2012 at 10:08.
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Old 17th Oct 2012, 11:55
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Ryanair probed for social security evasion in Italy-source | Reuters

The bureaucratic wheels in Italy grind slowly, but they get there eventually. This is going to cause Ryanair a lot of pain, they can't spin this one away. Much like the French they will decide what is what and no amount of spin and bull$hit from the PR department is going to make this go away in FRs biggest market outside the UK.
It won't affect FR as its correct under EU law and if there was changes all FR would do is keep profitable bases ie BGY, CIA etc and employ crew from Ireland to go and work there (there is over 400,000 to chose from) and close some of the smaller bases and move the aircraft else where. Think Italy will suffer more long term.

MRS would be a good example.
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Old 17th Oct 2012, 12:32
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I love the idea that Italians are worried about foreigners not paying correct amount of tax.......if it was only foreigners then they wouldn't have so many problems.
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Old 17th Oct 2012, 15:57
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I publish it under Ryanair; if realized, this would obviously concern many other lcc's too.
The Russian government is discussing the possibility of inviting foreign low cost airlines to the Russian market, including performing domestic flights.

"We are very actively discussing the issue of inviting foreign low-cost airlines that exist in the world today, including for domestic transport.We expect to hold a serious discussion of this," Igor Artemyev, the head of Russia’s Anti-Monopoly Service (FAS) told at the meeting of the governmental commission for competition and the development of small and medium business.
More in the TV-Novosti news (Russian site in English).
¨

Last edited by eu01; 17th Oct 2012 at 16:00.
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Old 17th Oct 2012, 15:58
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Ryanair know this is coming and they are gearing up for it. All EU crew that transfer now have no choice but to pay Social Security in that country (from June 28th 2012), but tax is still payable in Ireland under EU law. Those crew in EU bases currently will be safe for a maximum of ten years before the change.

For Ryanair it doesnt mean too much, for the crew it means a reduced take home pay. Will Ryanair increase wages to counteract....maybe in the long term but not dramatically.

The UK is totally unaffected (for cabin crew at least) as all UK based crew are on UK contracts as it is paying UK salaries. Flight crew I think are slightly different depending on the contract.

Wouldnt see so much of an issue in Italy. Ryanair need Italy and Italy need Ryanair, Im sure they will meet in the middle at some point on this. But as usual, the Ryanair bashers see it as "the end for Ryanair"....yawn.
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Old 17th Oct 2012, 16:49
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Italy needs Ryanair?
Where did you get this from?
Italy needs a real airline that offers good service, plays a fair game and creates real jobs and true business and FR is very far from that.
The only foreign success story worth mentioning in Bella Italia is Easyjet.
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Old 17th Oct 2012, 17:00
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For Ryanair it doesnt mean too much, for the crew it means a reduced take home pay. Will Ryanair increase wages to counteract....
I don't see why Ryanair should increase wages under these circumstances. Did crew run to Ryanair to offer a pay cut when oil prices jumped through the roof ?
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Old 17th Oct 2012, 19:29
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Ryanair probed for social security evasion in Italy-source | Reuters
There is a big difference between legal tax avoidance (*$ style) and evasion, which (afaik) is a criminal act. Clearly, Ryanair maintain they have done nothing long. Maybe they can take the tax inspectors out to a nice slap up meal in Milan - worked for Vodafone.

I can't see what difference this will have on Italian routes. If (and it is a very big if) criminal charges were brought, Ryanair couldn't just up sticks anyway. I would assume they'd be denied overfly rights for Italy too, and if it came to it, would a European arrest warrant not be put out?

Far more likely scenario is that Ryanair will defend these charges, lap up the publicity as always, and if it looks bad, they will settle out of court.

France is quite a different scenario with just one base, and a decision to move to avert further costs of staying there, not because of any potential legal case (afaik).

Ryanair seems to have picked on smaller airports or countries in the past, when it knows it can call the shots. I doubt this is the case in Italy, not just because of the bases, but also because of all the other inbound flights. Italy must have more secondary airports than most, alongside the UK and Germany.

We know how much MOL hates APD, but he also knows he isn't in a position to leave the UK in protest, as he has far too much business here already.
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Old 18th Oct 2012, 11:22
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The French phrase for all this stuff is 'pas evident' - not that clear.

MO'L is pushing a case which will have to be sorted by the European Court (ECJ), sooner or later. The basic problem is the right of any EU citizen to work anywhere in the EU. There are rules for seamen, for example, and MO'L has been arguing that they should apply to aircrew and cabin personnel. Not unreasonable as seamen can specify how many days they were 'out of the country' and get relief of tax (and social security?) for that period.

The other element is the tax residency one - my tax adviser holds the view that the various Revenue bodies in the EU have an unwritten agreement not to poke the sleeping dog by allowing a case on this to go to the ECJ on the grounds it would last two minutes there; free movement of labour and tax residency are fundamentally at odds.

The result of all this is a typical EU mess - social security and tax are national responsibilities, but all the EU 27 have signed the Treaty of Rome which allows free movement of labour (with temporary derogations), so they need to sort the inevitable issues that will arise. In comes the economic crisis, what chance of sorting it.... none.

FR lost the French case on a ruling which applies to France, the court was not required to refer the case to the ECJ. I'd say they and other states will be very careful not to take cases which will require them to refer the question to the ECJ.

This one will run and run and MO'L will continue to prod....
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Old 18th Oct 2012, 21:55
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MO'L is pushing a case which will have to be sorted by the European Court (ECJ), sooner or later. The basic problem is the right of any EU citizen to work anywhere in the EU. There are rules for seamen, for example, and MO'L has been arguing that they should apply to aircrew and cabin personnel. Not unreasonable as seamen can specify how many days they were 'out of the country' and get relief of tax (and social security?) for that period.

The other element is the tax residency one - my tax adviser holds the view that the various Revenue bodies in the EU have an unwritten agreement not to poke the sleeping dog by allowing a case on this to go to the ECJ on the grounds it would last two minutes there; free movement of labour and tax residency are fundamentally at odds.

The result of all this is a typical EU mess - social security and tax are national responsibilities, but all the EU 27 have signed the Treaty of Rome which allows free movement of labour (with temporary derogations), so they need to sort the inevitable issues that will arise. In comes the economic crisis, what chance of sorting it.... none.

FR lost the French case on a ruling which applies to France, the court was not required to refer the case to the ECJ. I'd say they and other states will be very careful not to take cases which will require them to refer the question to the ECJ.
Any realignment will mean that there will be big winners and big losers and of course you will be in favour of a change IF someone outlines that you will be a big winner. Problem is that the data may suggest something but actual implementation gives a different result and while politicians stupid enough to do something like that the Tax people who collect the revenue know the downside.
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Old 22nd Oct 2012, 13:17
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Actually, it's great to be able to undestand some Russian . Correct me if I'm wrong, but this official Russian agency has just informed that Ryanair may become an official carrier between Ireland in Russia. Russian Federation's Ministry of Foreign Affairs has received a note from its Irish counterpart designating Ryanair to perform the job.

"They sent a proposal to the Foreign Ministry that they want to assign to the Irish side Ryanair", - the ministry said. The document does not mention any desired routes nor frequencies yet.
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Old 22nd Oct 2012, 15:03
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Not sure if posted before or not:
Ryanair jets out of Turku | Yle Uutiset | yle.fi
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