LIVERPOOL-3
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I disagree Ametyst, initial contact was Wizz contacting MAN, although that did whip MAN into a freenzy, but not enough of a freenzy to drop their pants. The impression left was Wizz never intended a switch, just created a stick to beat DSA and LPL with...but not that it really matters.
Stuff like this happens daily in the aviation world, airlines would not be doing their job correctly if they did not consider all options and negotiate the best deal they could. It'll happen again, and again, and again.
It's pleasing for LPL that Wizz stayed, just wish they would do some serious bloody growing ! DSA gets far more and there is no reason the same size operation could not work from Speke.
Stuff like this happens daily in the aviation world, airlines would not be doing their job correctly if they did not consider all options and negotiate the best deal they could. It'll happen again, and again, and again.
It's pleasing for LPL that Wizz stayed, just wish they would do some serious bloody growing ! DSA gets far more and there is no reason the same size operation could not work from Speke.
Last edited by eggc; 8th Oct 2015 at 22:23.
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Show us the proof then Ameytst.
You are 100% certain, so, such proof should be very easy to come by.
Like I say, funny how MAG only 'chased' wiz when their LPL contract was up, and funny how it was in no way shape or form wizz aiming for a better deal.
I'm pretty sure that if MAN was as anti competitive against LPL as some say they are, then, given how they have managed to attract larger bases from Easyjet and Ryanair with them moving flights away from LPL into MAN, the latter being infamous for their hunt of low fees, then I have no doubt that if MAN really, really wanted wizz, then They could get wizz. I'm not saying that I know for a fact MAN didn't approach wizz, but, I'm not saying that I know 100% they didn't. It's just conjecture from both sides.
However, to give them a super favourable deal would no doubt upset the apple art, so, rightly are saying no for the time being.
But, like I Say, show me unequivocal proof that MAN approached wizz and not the other way round, and we can leave the topic be, but some how, I doubt you will be able to provide such proof, so, this will remain conjecture from both sides.
You are 100% certain, so, such proof should be very easy to come by.
Like I say, funny how MAG only 'chased' wiz when their LPL contract was up, and funny how it was in no way shape or form wizz aiming for a better deal.
I'm pretty sure that if MAN was as anti competitive against LPL as some say they are, then, given how they have managed to attract larger bases from Easyjet and Ryanair with them moving flights away from LPL into MAN, the latter being infamous for their hunt of low fees, then I have no doubt that if MAN really, really wanted wizz, then They could get wizz. I'm not saying that I know for a fact MAN didn't approach wizz, but, I'm not saying that I know 100% they didn't. It's just conjecture from both sides.
However, to give them a super favourable deal would no doubt upset the apple art, so, rightly are saying no for the time being.
But, like I Say, show me unequivocal proof that MAN approached wizz and not the other way round, and we can leave the topic be, but some how, I doubt you will be able to provide such proof, so, this will remain conjecture from both sides.
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Show us the proof then Ameytst.
I'm not saying that I know for a fact MAN didn't approach wizz, but, I'm not saying that I know 100% they didn't. It's just conjecture from both sides.
But, like I Say, show me unequivocal proof that MAN approached wizz and not the other way round, and we can leave the topic be, but some how, I doubt you will be able to provide such proof, so, this will remain conjecture from both sides.
I'm not saying that I know for a fact MAN didn't approach wizz, but, I'm not saying that I know 100% they didn't. It's just conjecture from both sides.
But, like I Say, show me unequivocal proof that MAN approached wizz and not the other way round, and we can leave the topic be, but some how, I doubt you will be able to provide such proof, so, this will remain conjecture from both sides.
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It's a bit rich asking someone for unequivocal proof when you admit you can't provide any to the contrary.
Yes, I do known that 100% and yes, it was Manchester chasing Wizz Air.
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Andy,
As stated, the difference is, I'm not the one saying I know 100% what the situation is.
I'm saying we don't know either way, at the end of the day MAN may well have approached wizz, and unlike others I'm willing to concede to that fact should it be proven (and I mean hard proof, not any poofy MOL style press releases saying how they had to turn MAN down when in fact it's a save face exercise because it was wizz that were turned away), but, with a contract renewal due, let's face it, wizz are more likely to hunt for better deals and keep their current customer on their toes.
MAN has turned away low costs before, several times, so, it's not a flight of fancy to suggest they could have done it again in this instance.
As stated, the difference is, I'm not the one saying I know 100% what the situation is.
I'm saying we don't know either way, at the end of the day MAN may well have approached wizz, and unlike others I'm willing to concede to that fact should it be proven (and I mean hard proof, not any poofy MOL style press releases saying how they had to turn MAN down when in fact it's a save face exercise because it was wizz that were turned away), but, with a contract renewal due, let's face it, wizz are more likely to hunt for better deals and keep their current customer on their toes.
MAN has turned away low costs before, several times, so, it's not a flight of fancy to suggest they could have done it again in this instance.
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LAX_LHR, who do you think you are?
I am not obliged to prove anything to you! Suffice to say that I do not come onto this forum to write rubbish. I will not betray a confidence. And just so you are sure I am not using that excuse to hide behind. Quite honestly, I do not care what you think and I owe you nothing!
Needless, to say that my 100% is more solid than your 100% about Hainan coming to Manchester.
I am not obliged to prove anything to you! Suffice to say that I do not come onto this forum to write rubbish. I will not betray a confidence. And just so you are sure I am not using that excuse to hide behind. Quite honestly, I do not care what you think and I owe you nothing!
Needless, to say that my 100% is more solid than your 100% about Hainan coming to Manchester.
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Ameytyst
i don't know who you are, and, overall like you, I don't care.
But, given your postings on another forum, I'm not exactly worried.
You claim to be a wizz expert, yet you require spotters help on another forum to track their aircraft. Why does the expert need to do that with years of inside knowledge?
But anyway, we are at an impass where nothing new will be added, so, I'll leave it at that. The simple fact is, wizz isn't moving anyway, so, it will end up getting all angry and ranty for what will be no reason. Always seems to happen on almost every LPL based forum/thread but there you go.
Let's just be happy with what each airport has.
Last edited by LAX_LHR; 9th Oct 2015 at 09:04.
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It's a ridiculous thing to argue anyway. MAN and LPL both have marketing and route planning folks who if they are doing their job properly will be sniffing around every airline that could conceivably dump a set of Dunlops on the local tarmac.
To the case in point, Wizz are an increasingly large airline, and MAN would be inept not to go sniffing round them, just as Wizz's route planning department would be inept not to assess the business case of flying from MAN on a regular basis. The circumstances when they first started flying to the UK were such that MAN weren't interested in locost, which may have been to LPL's benefit at the time, but as time has gone on clearly the cost case of sticking with LPL (and later DSA) rather than decamping to MAN has continued to be justified.
While MOL makes a lot of noise about how much airports charge to operate, the reality is that that cost is a small portion of the overall analysis of whether to operate a route. It would be irrelevant if MAN offered deals for free if the airline then couldn't fill the seats at a profitable level!
I would imagine it will become clear in the next 5 years if Wizz grow as expected whether they intend to remain away from EZY/RYR strongholds, and grow at smaller airports instead, or if they decide to take on the big 2 at bigger airports. Strategy 1 would be to the benefit of LPL/DSA; strategy 2 may not be.
At the risk of sounding like a stuck record - airports and airlines aren't charities, nor do they operate to keep local spotters entertained!
To the case in point, Wizz are an increasingly large airline, and MAN would be inept not to go sniffing round them, just as Wizz's route planning department would be inept not to assess the business case of flying from MAN on a regular basis. The circumstances when they first started flying to the UK were such that MAN weren't interested in locost, which may have been to LPL's benefit at the time, but as time has gone on clearly the cost case of sticking with LPL (and later DSA) rather than decamping to MAN has continued to be justified.
While MOL makes a lot of noise about how much airports charge to operate, the reality is that that cost is a small portion of the overall analysis of whether to operate a route. It would be irrelevant if MAN offered deals for free if the airline then couldn't fill the seats at a profitable level!
I would imagine it will become clear in the next 5 years if Wizz grow as expected whether they intend to remain away from EZY/RYR strongholds, and grow at smaller airports instead, or if they decide to take on the big 2 at bigger airports. Strategy 1 would be to the benefit of LPL/DSA; strategy 2 may not be.
At the risk of sounding like a stuck record - airports and airlines aren't charities, nor do they operate to keep local spotters entertained!
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Categorcally, Wizz approached MAN as part of the reassessment of their NorthWest strategy when the contract with Vantage came up.
At no time did MAG make an uninvited approach to Wizz.
A bit like Ryanair going to Airbus when they knew all along they were going to stick with Boeing.
At no time did MAG make an uninvited approach to Wizz.
A bit like Ryanair going to Airbus when they knew all along they were going to stick with Boeing.
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LAX_LHR I have never claimed to be a Wizz Air expert and nor am I. If I want to know the location of a Wizz aircraft I will use FR24 and I have no need to ask avforum forvsuch information.
I am only reporting on what I know.
I am only reporting on what I know.
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So you have never asked on NWAN for wizz registrations? You sure about that?
Secondly, it was the as ever hostile user 'LPL' who has claimed you have years of insider information on wizz, to which you never corrected him on, in fact, laughingly agreed with. (It is rather amusing watching 'LPL' on his high horse as usual he is as predictable as night turning to day when it comes to his anti anything Manchester rhetoric).
funny how you are not correcting the other posters who say wizz approached MAN though.
Secondly, it was the as ever hostile user 'LPL' who has claimed you have years of insider information on wizz, to which you never corrected him on, in fact, laughingly agreed with. (It is rather amusing watching 'LPL' on his high horse as usual he is as predictable as night turning to day when it comes to his anti anything Manchester rhetoric).
funny how you are not correcting the other posters who say wizz approached MAN though.
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Just what has all this got to do with "rumours" - this is a rumour network not one for people to let off against each other, call each other names, who said what and when, or anything else. Instead of this juvenile bickering (which only reflects on the posters themselves) can we keep this thread to rumours and news please?
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Ha!Ha!Ha! You really have to laugh LAX.
LPL refers to my professional insider knowledge not that Ibam an expert on Wizz Air, and the comment by LPL was tounge in cheek. You need to get a sense of humour LAX! I can call you LAX can't I?
So sad that you had to trawl through my postings on NWAN to find that I had requested the identities of 2 Wizz Air aircraft on 6th November 2010! Yes, 2010!
LPL is as passionate about all things Liverpool as you are about Manchester. That is no bad thing! So I cannot understand the need for you to constantly doubt, undermine and ridicule other people's views that do not fit in with yours.
LPL refers to my professional insider knowledge not that Ibam an expert on Wizz Air, and the comment by LPL was tounge in cheek. You need to get a sense of humour LAX! I can call you LAX can't I?
So sad that you had to trawl through my postings on NWAN to find that I had requested the identities of 2 Wizz Air aircraft on 6th November 2010! Yes, 2010!
LPL is as passionate about all things Liverpool as you are about Manchester. That is no bad thing! So I cannot understand the need for you to constantly doubt, undermine and ridicule other people's views that do not fit in with yours.
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Wizz.....
Just to try to put this to bed, Curious Pax has it spot on.
Airports and Airlines don't exist in silos, they will be constantly talking to each other.
My background is Banking, but it's no different from a business perspective. We expect to gain business off the competition. We maintain lists of companies who bank with the competition - Barclays, HSBC, Lloyds etc - and we build relationships with them. Some have fabulous relationships with their existing bankers and will never move. Some are always looking for the best (cheapest) deal and will move at the drop of a hat. The majority are somewhere in the middle and it will often take some kind of event (eg a mistake) to prompt them to talk about moving. The key is relationship building and being able to demonstrate value and trust - old fashioned values which still hold true.
Airports and Airlines don't exist in silos, they will be constantly talking to each other.
My background is Banking, but it's no different from a business perspective. We expect to gain business off the competition. We maintain lists of companies who bank with the competition - Barclays, HSBC, Lloyds etc - and we build relationships with them. Some have fabulous relationships with their existing bankers and will never move. Some are always looking for the best (cheapest) deal and will move at the drop of a hat. The majority are somewhere in the middle and it will often take some kind of event (eg a mistake) to prompt them to talk about moving. The key is relationship building and being able to demonstrate value and trust - old fashioned values which still hold true.
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Called pedantic by mickyman, irony reaching new depths there. Still nothing useful or worthwhile to contribute I see.
ametyst,
You call user LPL passionate, many others call him hostile. It's not about putting down people for having a different opinion, after all, I've said I'll happily concede the wizz debate if proof is given, but he has a very insular and petty approach, which is totally different. Petty in that he can't even bring himself to name MAN airport, let alone have a balanced debate about it.
ametyst,
You call user LPL passionate, many others call him hostile. It's not about putting down people for having a different opinion, after all, I've said I'll happily concede the wizz debate if proof is given, but he has a very insular and petty approach, which is totally different. Petty in that he can't even bring himself to name MAN airport, let alone have a balanced debate about it.