MANCHESTER - 9

[Bagso]

great reply Suzeman, always worth checking your comments/responses and this is no different.

Re Olympics i have put a "link" here, although to be fair it does say significant rather than largest BUT I have heard a spokesmen quote largest (poss, Radio Manchester) but suspect the wordage was, shall we say subsequently manipulated.

CBRE: UK - News Detail

[Suzeman]

Thanks for the link Bagso

I hadn't actually thought about Airport City being of that scale, but you are right - it is a very major infrastructure investment. I'm sure that once the investment partners are sorted out there will be publicity and more marketing to follow with hopefully some exposure in the national media. That is one story that should be there as it's a first for the UK.

Suzeman

[JackRalston]

PIA702

Not having a good day the PK flight, PIA702 left MAN 4hrs late and it's just diverted into AMS, splendid!

[LBIA]

I understand that last nights PIA702 service from MAN was in fact planned to call into AMS to pick up extra pax.

[awwdabaaby]

Commonweath Games Manchester

Just a quick question, when the Commonwealth Games were held in Manchester, did the athletes fly to Manchester or did they transit through LHR?

[Ringwayman]

Virtually all transited.

[doublesix]

Commonwealth Games

The only aircraft that I can recall that was out of the ordinary was a Qantas 747.

[LN-KGL]

Weren't the visits of the Qantas 747 charters for some religious sect then?

[SWBKCB]

Qantas Jumbo's

Different visits!

[Bagso]

With credit to the poster on the BHX thread

BBC Democracy Live - Transport Committee

Don't want to be a wise old owl Suzeman but again are we not being lumped in with the also-rans ?

It's easy to criticise from my armchair so I will anyway, I thought the Manchester contribution was shocking;

Somewhat lacklustre
Rather passionless
Hesitant at times
Poorly delivered
Dullish

I got the impression we were hanging onto the coat-tail of the Birmingham chap at times.

I appreciate she wasn't there as a representative of MAG as such but I do thing a bit of coaching would not have gone amiss. It wasn't exactly the lions den was it ?

These presentations are an opportunity for MPs to gather information, they are also an opportunity to sell the greater use of Manchester, there was a reference to 22m pax in 2 hours etc but it was delivered with little passion.

There were no propositions put forward even when some "leading questions" were offered up !

[Suzeman]

Oh dear - here we go again

Don't want to be a wise old owl Suzeman but again are we not being lumped in with the also-rans ?

Please watch it all again and then tell me where the Manchester viewpoint would fit in if it was not with non SE-England Chambers? Do we really want the MAN viewpoint in with that of the SE where the issues are completely different? Can't you see that the questions to each group are framed to elict answers from their distinct perspective and the questions to the SE group were almost all different to those asked to the regional representatives. For example, whereas the SE group (after pussyfooting around) were asked directly (by Graham Stringer) where there should be extra runways in the SE, the regional reps were merely asked whether they supported a UK hub.

You are looking at this from "a big headline for the public" perspective whereas the name of this game is to get your case across to those who make and can change policy.

I thought the Manchester contribution was shocking;

Somewhat lacklustre
Rather passionless
Hesitant at times
Poorly delivered
Dullish

I'm afraid you are right - there were some good points but not well put over

I got the impression we were hanging onto the coat-tail of the Birmingham chap at times.

Chief Executive he may be, but he was poorly briefed on aviation issues, had to admit he didn't understand much about aviation policies and when caught out about hubs for example, was flannelling quite a lot. The Committee are no fools and this wouldn't have gone un-noticed. He was very passionate about his area though and did get some good general points over, especially at the end.

I appreciate she wasn't there as a representative of MAG as such but I do thing a bit of coaching would not have gone amiss.

Many of the points made by MAN were not re-iterated by the Manchester lady which is a shame. This could also be said for the other CC reps as well when compared with the evidence from their airports. I would have thought that coordination between the two would have been a given.

This lack of coordination also seems to also come out in the written evidence.

Aviation Strategy (8th November 2012)

Aviation Strategy (10th January 2013)

Aviation Strategy (8th November 2012)

There were no propositions put forward even when some "leading questions" were offered up !

Indeed - very surprising! I would have thought that each of them would have had a hit list of relevant points and jumped in with great speed - but alas no. I couldn't believe that nobody mentioned bilaterals until Stringer brought it up - at least he has been well briefed on this subject by MAN over the years.

The two business aviation guys in the last group were much more on the ball and in particular the chap from Farnborough was very impressive, answering the questions instead of flanneling and providing numerous facts and figures to support his case.

We'll see what the report turns up, but there are 3 local to MAN MPs on the Committee, plus Louise Ellman comes from Liverpool and with other regional MPs too I'm sure that the regional and particularly MAN contribution to airport capacity will be recognised.

The Select Committee process is designed to examine Government policy and to seek to influence change, not to sell airports to the public. That is best done by the Airports themselves and if constraints rules and regulations have been relaxed by Government, the airports will have more to sell and more headlines to make.

Cheers
Suzeman

[arai]

QFA 747's were weekly visitors from the first service back in 83 until the late 90's. So a QFA 744 visiting for the Commonwealth games was certainly not an "unusual visitor" Not commonwealth games related but a sports link nonetheless, the North Korean IL62 that made 2 visits to drop off and pick up the teams for the World Student Games in Sheffield was fairly rare on this side of the Iron Curtain....

[Bagso]

suzeman

here we go again.....indeed

That said I agree wholeheartedly with your observations.

To honest I think we agreed on all points ? well nearly !

Yes the make up of the committee is somewhat strange but hey lets not complain, all the more reason to argue the case supporting Manchester NOT at the expense of LHR but in tandem.

I am non political but I was suprised how much the MPs are aware, OK few odd Qs but on the whole quite keyed in (being candid,somewhat more than the spokeman who was "supposed" to be fighting our corner).

Must confess I skimmed the first bit.

Graham Stringer has suggested in two different debates now that Manchester s/b removed from Bi lateral agreements, I "thought" many restrictions had been removed, but clearly he seems to be under the impression that this is still a real issue ? It went under the radar with our Girl and yet is a clear priority in MAG strategy !

Lucy Powell appeared quite clued up as well considering she has only been an MP for a few months, although I appreciate she is Manchester based.

She mentioned the Emirates A380 service, but how this was at one point referenced as a "tourist attraction" is beyond me? Maybe I'm being a bit over critical and should lighten up but MAN is crucial to the NW economy,we are not a bloody novelty act !

At one point I got the distinct impression that the committee were almost putting things on a plate asking ;

"well what can we do for you"

Really thought we could have used that opportunity ?

My God where do we start APD, US Pre Clearance..........

I was also dismayed when they asked about the LHR problem near the end, whilst fully appreciating that the majority view is another RW/airport down there.

Instead of issuing a very firm rebuttal and a bit of positive spin toward MAN I got the distinct impression she was a bit non-plussed and suggested.

"business just needs a decision"

wasn't quite what she meant by that but it came over more as "exasperated of Tonbridge Wells, rather than somebody committed to the cause !

PS Cheers for the links re minutes.

[Suzeman]

Mr Bagso

I am non political but I was suprised how much the MPs are aware, OK few odd Qs but on the whole quite keyed in (being candid,somewhat more than the spokeman who was "supposed" to be fighting our corner).

Every Select Committee has an independent expert adviser who assists the MPs and helps frame the questions. In this case, the expert is one of the foremost experienced aviation policy consultants in the country and is well aware of regional airport issues.

Graham Stringer has suggested in two different debates now that Manchester s/b removed from Bi lateral agreements, I "thought" many restrictions had been removed, but clearly he seems to be under the impression that this is still a real issue ?

Obviously still is a problem, as Manchester submitted additional evidence after their appearance (still no transcript of this day and still can't get the video to work!), so presumably they mentioned something and were asked to expand on it. Its the link to 10th January I posted earlier. There are some interesting things in there - looks like DfT are still proposing open skies on regional airports, but then they have been proposing it for the last 10 years at least. Also evidence of the difficulties encountered over gaining 5th freedoms to make routes viable.

She mentioned the Emirates A380 service, but how this was at one point referenced as a "tourist attraction" is beyond me? Maybe I'm being a bit over critical and should lighten up but MAN is crucial to the NW economy,we are not a bloody novelty act !

It is a tourist attraction at the Runway Viewing Park, arriving daily at lunchtime. Many people don't have the opportunity to see it up close anywhere else. The RVP is in the top 10 most visited tourist attractions in Greater Manchester at about 300,000 per year - figures for 2011 show it only a few thousand behind the Man Utd museum......

What she could have said about Emirates is that not only have they introduced the flagship A380, but also a third frequency in the last year or so and now offer First Class on all flights. It shows that people trust the hub in Dubai as it has a good deal of resilience now and are willing to use the service. And it is obviously viable. So it can be done.

Finally another hearing is scheduled on 28th January as below. From the participants list it looks like they will be discussing some of the pie in the sky ideas about Boris Island and other proposed mega-hubs in the Thames Estuary. Should be some interesting questions for them I think .

Suzeman

MPs to hear evidence on Aviation Strategy - News from Parliament - UK Parliament

[MAN777]

Cut and paste off Shannon thread, any comments ?


PK rumoured to reroute JFK and ORD through SNN from the summer.

I think JFK is via MAN currently but that could move to BCN and ORD via MAN when it resumes. I think SNN will have a good chance of securing both routes.

[j636]

It started on airlines.net, metion of a GLA restart to.

PIA Routes Rumor / Update — Civil Aviation Forum | Airliners.net

Will MAG offer somthing better to keep them if they were to move, I can't see SNN having a lot to offer as it would not benefit the airport a lot. Only thing is if USPC is cheaper to do it in SNN than the US that could puch them towords SNN.

[MARK 101]

Isnt there an agreement between USA and Ireland that flights between them are classed as domestic for immigration purposes or is that only for EU/UK passport holders. Not sure if that would have any bearing

[crewmeal]

Will MAG offer somthing better to keep them if they were to move, I can't see SNN having a lot to offer as it would not benefit the airport a lot. Only thing is if USPC is cheaper to do it in SNN than the US that could puch them towords SNN.

Maybe they think their passengers can clear US immigration like BA's do at SNN

[Fairdealfrank]

Quote: "Isnt there an agreement between USA and Ireland that flights between them are classed as domestic for immigration purposes or is that only for EU/UK passport holders. Not sure if that would have any bearing"

Quote: "Maybe they think their passengers can clear US immigration like BA's do at SNN"

Correct me if this is wrong, but AFAIK, pre-clearance is for all nationalities as the USA arrival takes place at a domestic gate.

Think that this is the case at pre-clearance in Canada and Bermuda, so isn't it the same in Ireland?

If not, there would be little point in the arrangement!

[commit aviation]

Just announced that MAG have purchased Stansted for 1.5bn. Story on BBC news website