DONCASTER SHEFFIELD
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Join Date: Sep 2010
Location: Doncaster
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There is no future for DSA as a commercial airport. The last new route that was added was Vilnius over 2 years ago. The place is a ghost town, becoming run down with absolutely zero maintenance of the facilities.
The work on the so called link road still hasn't started yet, despite being meant to last autumn, and there are now serious questions over funding.
I predict, within 5 years, DSA will not exist, unless there are some massive, massive changes.
The work on the so called link road still hasn't started yet, despite being meant to last autumn, and there are now serious questions over funding.
I predict, within 5 years, DSA will not exist, unless there are some massive, massive changes.
Join Date: Oct 2012
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DSA has higher passenger numbers than other regional airports such as Bournemouth, Norwich, Southend, Humberside and Blackpool. I visit DSA regularly and don't recognise the "ghost town" and "run down" place that TommyW describes. It's not busy by any stretch of the imagination and a lack of passenger flights, but there is regular activity and frequent arrivals and departures by business, cargo and training flights. There is a letter in today's Free Press from a nearby resident complaining about the high number of non-passenger flights.
Preparatory works have started on the link road. The Highways Agency will not permit construction work to start until the White Rose Way dualling is complete. An extra lane is scheduled to be added to the M18 between junctions 2 and 3, and I suspect the Highways Agency will want this to be completed before the link road opens as the M18 is at capacity at peak times.
Preparatory works have started on the link road. The Highways Agency will not permit construction work to start until the White Rose Way dualling is complete. An extra lane is scheduled to be added to the M18 between junctions 2 and 3, and I suspect the Highways Agency will want this to be completed before the link road opens as the M18 is at capacity at peak times.
Last edited by wb9999; 7th Mar 2013 at 20:49.
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So people want the CAS removed. How will that attract new business and increase Commercial movements?
I don't understand why people are so against CAS. It's a known traffic environment. Before the CAS people used for fly towards the Doncaster ATZ because they could!
How would you like to be on an inbound flight that is having to be vectored all over the place to avoid the unknown traffic? Or as a few week ago, having to wait on the ground because unknown traffic is inside CAS pointing towards the overhead? I've got a PPL, am an ATCO and my fav past time is going on holiday, so I have a balanced view
I don't understand why people are so against CAS. It's a known traffic environment. Before the CAS people used for fly towards the Doncaster ATZ because they could!
How would you like to be on an inbound flight that is having to be vectored all over the place to avoid the unknown traffic? Or as a few week ago, having to wait on the ground because unknown traffic is inside CAS pointing towards the overhead? I've got a PPL, am an ATCO and my fav past time is going on holiday, so I have a balanced view
wb9999
I think you will find that Bournemouth has more passengers than Doncaster over the last 12 months (688,552 v/s 688240),also a ghost town, and Southend will overtake Doncaster in the feb figures.
BarTT
It seems that CAS and attracting passengers are not linked. Manston and Southend have both grown without CAS while Bournemouth, Doncaster, Liverpool and Teeside (164,000) have all decreased markedly.
If controllers respected the rules of class"D" i.e. IFR separated from IFR and information on VFR, avoiding heading on request, there would be fewer requests to remove the almost empty airspace. A "known trafic environment" is good but the current "no trafic environment" is bad. VFR trafic has been refused entry to Doncaster due to a single light twin doing IFR training and that is simply wrong. The twin should have had separation from any IFR and trafic information on any VFR.
bb
I think you will find that Bournemouth has more passengers than Doncaster over the last 12 months (688,552 v/s 688240),also a ghost town, and Southend will overtake Doncaster in the feb figures.
BarTT
It seems that CAS and attracting passengers are not linked. Manston and Southend have both grown without CAS while Bournemouth, Doncaster, Liverpool and Teeside (164,000) have all decreased markedly.
If controllers respected the rules of class"D" i.e. IFR separated from IFR and information on VFR, avoiding heading on request, there would be fewer requests to remove the almost empty airspace. A "known trafic environment" is good but the current "no trafic environment" is bad. VFR trafic has been refused entry to Doncaster due to a single light twin doing IFR training and that is simply wrong. The twin should have had separation from any IFR and trafic information on any VFR.
bb
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bad bear, for the whole of 2012 Doncaster is ahead of Bournemouth (693,129 vs 689,755). It's only in January 2013, that Bournemouth overtook DSA with a few hundred extra passengers, but that could easily have changed in February.
I think using arguments about Southend and Manston with regards to Class D will fall on deaf ears - Southend will likely have Class D very soon (they have applied for it already), even though they had 70,000 fewer passengers in 2012 than DSA. Manston only had 7,000 passengers in the whole of the last 12 months.
BarTT, I agree partly with your comments. I heard about the infringement a couple of weeks ago, and sometimes general aviation does not help itself with instances like this. But I've heard regular stories about zone transits being declined due to IFR training (as bad bear says), which should not happen. Are some ATCOs too cautious?
I think using arguments about Southend and Manston with regards to Class D will fall on deaf ears - Southend will likely have Class D very soon (they have applied for it already), even though they had 70,000 fewer passengers in 2012 than DSA. Manston only had 7,000 passengers in the whole of the last 12 months.
BarTT, I agree partly with your comments. I heard about the infringement a couple of weeks ago, and sometimes general aviation does not help itself with instances like this. But I've heard regular stories about zone transits being declined due to IFR training (as bad bear says), which should not happen. Are some ATCOs too cautious?
Last edited by wb9999; 8th Mar 2013 at 10:46.
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In all the time that the CAS has been there, I've denied one crossing and I had a complaint from the flying association concerned! If there as many people being denied transits as implied on here, PM me and I'll look into it.
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I just route round this airspace if possible as when its a good flying day the Doncaster controllers are overloaded and often unable to reply other than to ask you to standby
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Southend will likely have Class D very soon (they have applied for it already), even though they had 70,000 fewer passengers in 2012 than DSA.
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Still no one can explain how a commercial airport at DSA is sustainable with routes being dropped on a regular basis with none replacing them. As I said the last new route was added 2 years ago, with many lost and still being lost.
If the trend continues, and there is nothing to suggest it won't, then do you really see DSA staying open?
If the trend continues, and there is nothing to suggest it won't, then do you really see DSA staying open?
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TimmyW, we are in the worst economic crisis for 100 years. Most regional airports are seeing significant declines in passenger numbers, with very few new routes or bases. The CAA forecasts that passenger numbers across the UK will double in the next 20 years. If the forecasts are anywhere near accurate, there will be lots of new routes to be picked up in the future. But the economy will have to improve first.
DSA still has higher passenger numbers than some other, more established, regional airports. For an airport that has only been 8 years, the numbers are not something to worry about. It took regional airports decades to get the passenger numbers they have. Humberside has a third of DSA's passengers with just 2 routes, yet survives.
Peel have very deep pockets, and have invested a lot into DSA. It's unlikely they are going to walk away any time soon.
DSA still has higher passenger numbers than some other, more established, regional airports. For an airport that has only been 8 years, the numbers are not something to worry about. It took regional airports decades to get the passenger numbers they have. Humberside has a third of DSA's passengers with just 2 routes, yet survives.
Peel have very deep pockets, and have invested a lot into DSA. It's unlikely they are going to walk away any time soon.
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Some good points wb. And I would love to be able to use my local airport. I travel out of the country 10 times a year, and when Easyjet were at the airport, and the Dublin route operated, DSA more than catered for my needs.
I don't think the airport helps itself in terms of marketing or local impact either.
Fingers crossed for some good news soon.
I don't think the airport helps itself in terms of marketing or local impact either.
Fingers crossed for some good news soon.
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TimmyW, I wouldn't disagree with that.
In the airports first couple of years I regularly flew with ThomsonFly (the budget airline, as it was then) to Spain or Amsterdam for £8 - £50. Now that Thomson has converted to charter, I would rather fly from EMA or LBA than pay £300 with Thomson. I think that Thomson ditching the budget brand has had a big impact on DSA, as prices increased dramatically.
In the airports first couple of years I regularly flew with ThomsonFly (the budget airline, as it was then) to Spain or Amsterdam for £8 - £50. Now that Thomson has converted to charter, I would rather fly from EMA or LBA than pay £300 with Thomson. I think that Thomson ditching the budget brand has had a big impact on DSA, as prices increased dramatically.
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I just wonder how much effort DSA is putting in to try to attract a wider range of flights. Wizzair flights running back and forth with Polish industrial esteate workers and a few IT charters by Thomson. Those Thomson packages and flights from DSA are shockingly high priced and I really do fear for the future of DSA. I think in future it will be maybe a few Romanian and Bulgarian flights, ferrying new factory workers back and forth and the odd 'old fogey or lager lout' TFS charter.
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Although I am not familiar with Doncaster, I suspect a large proportion of income will come from rent via tenants located around the airport. It is not always the case that you make huge profits from passengers passing through a terminal (but it helps the bottom line).
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As there is no competition at the airport, Thomson can pretty much charge what they like. However loads are becoming poor, and Thomson are already scaling back their DSA operation.
I doubt they will return for summer 2014.
I doubt they will return for summer 2014.