Brighton City Airways
Groundloop
With respect, if the only aircraft larger than the Let-410 that you can come up with which can use Shoreham is one that is no longer in service in Europe, I cannot see how that "throws doubt on the accuracy of everything in the article." Perhaps the article was simply too positive for your liking.
With respect, if the only aircraft larger than the Let-410 that you can come up with which can use Shoreham is one that is no longer in service in Europe, I cannot see how that "throws doubt on the accuracy of everything in the article." Perhaps the article was simply too positive for your liking.
Last edited by Expressflight; 26th Mar 2013 at 09:50.
Phileas - about a week ago, I flew Shoreham-Pontoise with Brighton City - I read the review on a later date an, ignoring aspects around launch day and press coverage, thought it gave a pretty accurate description of the product BCA offer. It's extremely rare that a handling agent at a commercial airline says "Go to the restaurant and have some breakfast - we'll phone you when about to board". Admittedly it was a little annoying that I had to shovel the last piece of scrambled eggs and toast in my mouth and get up quickly because the person in the kitchen took their time over making my breakfast, but such is the way of life...
Maybe a slightly larger aircraft could be used but it's a fairly minor point - particularly for an airline and route which late in 2012 people wrote off as no hope.
If we end up with passenger aviation run 100% by 3 network carriers, Easyjet and Ryanair, then we are back to the monopoly days of the 1970s with airlines flying only where is operationally convenient rather than where passengers want to fly.
Maybe a slightly larger aircraft could be used but it's a fairly minor point - particularly for an airline and route which late in 2012 people wrote off as no hope.
If we end up with passenger aviation run 100% by 3 network carriers, Easyjet and Ryanair, then we are back to the monopoly days of the 1970s with airlines flying only where is operationally convenient rather than where passengers want to fly.
Last edited by davidjohnson6; 26th Mar 2013 at 17:18.
A Runyonesque Character
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How about an Ilyushin Il-18?
60 seats longhaul out of 1000m (even unpaved)
No, not that Il-18, this one.
About as realistic as Brighton City Airways, if you ask me.
60 seats longhaul out of 1000m (even unpaved)
No, not that Il-18, this one.
About as realistic as Brighton City Airways, if you ask me.
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davidjohnson6,
I'm not arguing that BCA is a little niche, indeed unique, operation, alas it has no recognised airport at either end of it's one solitary route thus I'd be willing to bet a beer that BCA's days are numbered.
The point I was making that a guy, believing himself to be knowlegable, made such a mistake without any research thus losing much, if not all, credibility of his obviously biased review.
And, should anyone believe that I am biased against Shoreham ... Once upon a time I resided in Storrington and would regularly drive around Shoreham and the surrounding area.
I'm not arguing that BCA is a little niche, indeed unique, operation, alas it has no recognised airport at either end of it's one solitary route thus I'd be willing to bet a beer that BCA's days are numbered.
The point I was making that a guy, believing himself to be knowlegable, made such a mistake without any research thus losing much, if not all, credibility of his obviously biased review.
And, should anyone believe that I am biased against Shoreham ... Once upon a time I resided in Storrington and would regularly drive around Shoreham and the surrounding area.
Wow, what a terrible error the writer of that article made in stating that the Let-410 was the largest aircraft that could operate from Shoreham.
How could he possibly have "made such a mistake" and got it so wrong and not realised that a Twin Otter could do so? I mean, one whole seat of extra capacity and he completely overlooked it; absolutely disgraceful. Naturally this results in the whole of his article being totally discredited and quite how he can sleep at night after such negilgence hardly bears thinking about it.
How could he possibly have "made such a mistake" and got it so wrong and not realised that a Twin Otter could do so? I mean, one whole seat of extra capacity and he completely overlooked it; absolutely disgraceful. Naturally this results in the whole of his article being totally discredited and quite how he can sleep at night after such negilgence hardly bears thinking about it.
Last edited by Expressflight; 26th Mar 2013 at 17:08.
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Expressflight.
A DHC8-100/200/Q200 has circa 36/39 seats and a DHC7 50 seats, 50 seats vs 19 seats, one whole seat the difference between 19 and 50 ... Really?
Back to your Sarfend thread before the mods may shut that down again!
A DHC8-100/200/Q200 has circa 36/39 seats and a DHC7 50 seats, 50 seats vs 19 seats, one whole seat the difference between 19 and 50 ... Really?
Back to your Sarfend thread before the mods may shut that down again!
Last edited by Phileas Fogg; 27th Mar 2013 at 05:48.
Phileas
Final word on this: would you seriously expect any airline to nowadays operate a Dash 8 on a UK scheduled service from either a tarmac runway 18m wide or the alternative grass runways at Shoreham? Surely your self proclaimed wide aviation experience would tell you this?
Back to your concrete mixer I'd suggest.
Final word on this: would you seriously expect any airline to nowadays operate a Dash 8 on a UK scheduled service from either a tarmac runway 18m wide or the alternative grass runways at Shoreham? Surely your self proclaimed wide aviation experience would tell you this?
Back to your concrete mixer I'd suggest.
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Calm down chaps. Is this really worth getting heated over? Leave BCA alone and let them get on with it. Let's return to the subject at the end of the summer and see how they've prospered.....
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BM,
Certainly not worth Expressflight getting heated over, alas it seems he's stalking me around a thread or few of this forum merely to find disagreement(s) with me ... and he was the root cause of the "Southend - 3" thread being shut down by the mods.
Alas if only we had a concrete mixer in this part of the world, we've got cement, we've got sand from the beach, we've got rocks that the locals pilfer from the roads, we've got water from our well ... and we've got shovels!
Regards from Cloud 9
Certainly not worth Expressflight getting heated over, alas it seems he's stalking me around a thread or few of this forum merely to find disagreement(s) with me ... and he was the root cause of the "Southend - 3" thread being shut down by the mods.
Alas if only we had a concrete mixer in this part of the world, we've got cement, we've got sand from the beach, we've got rocks that the locals pilfer from the roads, we've got water from our well ... and we've got shovels!
Regards from Cloud 9
Looking at the level of BCA's available fares for the first two weeks in April it seems that bookings may perhaps be picking up a little. They certainly need to resolve the Customs problem at POX though, if they haven't already.
Last edited by Expressflight; 27th Mar 2013 at 16:23.
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Their facebook page recently had 1000 bookings surpassed, and the flights are once again twice a day, so looks like there is some demand there. Aviation is a tough game though, so it'll be interesting to see how well it continues.
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Quote: "If we end up with passenger aviation run 100% by 3 network carriers, Easyjet and Ryanair, then we are back to the monopoly days of the 1970s with airlines flying only where is operationally convenient rather than where passengers want to fly."
Ah yes, the days when fares were fixed by IATA with economy class at 50% of the first class fare, no business and premium economy classes, with the odd APEX and ABC fares creeping in to get round this, and everyone else on charter operations out of Luton.
Quote: "Calm down chaps. Is this really worth getting heated over? Leave BCA alone and let them get on with it. Let's return to the subject at the end of the summer and see how they've prospered....."
Makes sense!
Ah yes, the days when fares were fixed by IATA with economy class at 50% of the first class fare, no business and premium economy classes, with the odd APEX and ABC fares creeping in to get round this, and everyone else on charter operations out of Luton.
Quote: "Calm down chaps. Is this really worth getting heated over? Leave BCA alone and let them get on with it. Let's return to the subject at the end of the summer and see how they've prospered....."
Makes sense!
That's certainly what the provisional stats show. It's a bit odd though that Shoreham doesn't appear in the route analysis section; if they've declared the POX route numbers you would expect them to have been shown there.
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No different to normal - Shoreham had 435 ATMs in 2012, all of which were schedules, and these flights carried a total of 480 pax.
But there's a number of issues with the CAA stats. They don't necessarily tell a full or accurate story.
NS
But there's a number of issues with the CAA stats. They don't necessarily tell a full or accurate story.
NS
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435 movements and 480 pax over 12 months in 2012 equates to 36.25 movements and 40 pax per month.
Yet, last month, based on these figures ESH had an additional 49.75 movements yet only an additional 54 passengers thus just a smidgen over 1 passenger per additional movement based on the previous year.
Were those additional 49.75 movements Brighton City Airways or private puddle jumpers?
Yet, last month, based on these figures ESH had an additional 49.75 movements yet only an additional 54 passengers thus just a smidgen over 1 passenger per additional movement based on the previous year.
Were those additional 49.75 movements Brighton City Airways or private puddle jumpers?
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Those CAA figures are only for schedules, or charters by aircraft >15 tonnes. As I understand it that rules out anything at Shoreham other than BCA.
NS
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Just tried to book a flight for later this month. Quite a few flights showing as Full or no available.
Does anyone know if this is because the flights are sold out or is it because they are cutting back there schedule?
Does anyone know if this is because the flights are sold out or is it because they are cutting back there schedule?
If you try to book just 1 seat and the website says fliggt is full, then you're looking at a cancelled flight. If booking 1 seat gives you availability, but booking 2 or more seats means the flight shows as full then it probably mean the 19 seat aircraft hasn't got room for both existing booked passengers and all of your party as well..
Last edited by davidjohnson6; 19th Apr 2013 at 21:34.