Brighton City Airways
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Starting an airline David? ... You mean Brighton City Airways is to have it's own AOC with postholders etc?
How does one make a million in aviation? ... One starts with 10 million!
I've got better things to do than start a tin pot flying operation, boys and their toys and all that, I'm living the dream developing my own business on this tropical island, why on gods earth would I want to waste my time and life starting some tin pot flying operation from an airfield out the back of beyond someplace?
How does one make a million in aviation? ... One starts with 10 million!
I've got better things to do than start a tin pot flying operation, boys and their toys and all that, I'm living the dream developing my own business on this tropical island, why on gods earth would I want to waste my time and life starting some tin pot flying operation from an airfield out the back of beyond someplace?
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The failure rate is exponential.
Or are you saying it is like the 9's of server uptime?
Given a 10+ year timeline, the failure rate is 99.99999.....%?
Come on everyone (you know who you are)
The people behind Brighton City Airways, whether it's an airline with AOC or just a glorified travel agency have come up with an idea and think they've found a gap in the market. They've put up some of their own personal cash, and are putting time into making it work.
Easyjet was once a tiddly airline flying from 1 route from a shed in Bedfordshire - nobody thought it would survive. I'm not saying that Brighton City will turn Europe orange and green, but most companies begin small, and all nascent companies need someone with a bit of vision and willing to invest time and money to turn their vision into a reality.
Maybe the company will succeed, maybe it won't succeed. At least they had the entrpreneurial guts to try and give it a go, and for that alone I think they deserve some credit.
The people behind Brighton City Airways, whether it's an airline with AOC or just a glorified travel agency have come up with an idea and think they've found a gap in the market. They've put up some of their own personal cash, and are putting time into making it work.
Easyjet was once a tiddly airline flying from 1 route from a shed in Bedfordshire - nobody thought it would survive. I'm not saying that Brighton City will turn Europe orange and green, but most companies begin small, and all nascent companies need someone with a bit of vision and willing to invest time and money to turn their vision into a reality.
Maybe the company will succeed, maybe it won't succeed. At least they had the entrpreneurial guts to try and give it a go, and for that alone I think they deserve some credit.
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Easyjet was once a tiddly airline flying from 1 route from a shed in Bedfordshire - nobody thought it would survive.
So I went down (from Leamington) to LTN to fly back up to EDI.
The only thing that has really changed since then (apart from them getting a lot bigger) is that they have ditched the original mantra about flying from secondary airports, and let the flying harps take over that space.
Ryanair were around for a while before MOL jumped in - again, both he and Stelios took more than a few lessons from the Herb school of airline philosophy.
What are these guys doing that is going to make them special enough to survive? I still haven't heard a good reason why a route that won't work from LGW is going to work from BSH to POX?
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Only in a "Boyzone" world would a Puddle Jumper operation of 19 seats,
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Fair enough that Easyjet started on Air Foyle's AOC but as soon as was practical they set about getting their own AOC etc.
Suckling were one that tried something similar to what Brighton City are trying, Suckling thought they had a niche operating their Do228 in/out of (grass runway) Ipswich Airport until they, pretty much, got kicked out for churning the runway up, then they tried operations in/out of RAF Wattisham, then Cambridge until, pretty much, they realised there was no marketplace for them in East Anglia and moved out.
So what routes might work in/out of Shoreham that haven't already been tried and failed, not even JEA (FlyBE) could make the Channel Islands work out of Shoreham!
And, particularly bearing in mind Shoreham's restricted navigational aids, should LGW not be too willing to accept puddle jumper diversions where are they going to use an an alternate? Biggin Hill can't accept fare paying passenger movements, I guess there's SOU but then I understand there is limited ramp space which kinda leaves BOH, MSE or Lydd ... not really ideal!
This is a case of someone trying to be a smart@ss, if the south-east needs an air route to/from Paris then do it out of LGW and to a PARIS airport and stop trying to be clever trying something that will have a very limited shelf life.
Suckling were one that tried something similar to what Brighton City are trying, Suckling thought they had a niche operating their Do228 in/out of (grass runway) Ipswich Airport until they, pretty much, got kicked out for churning the runway up, then they tried operations in/out of RAF Wattisham, then Cambridge until, pretty much, they realised there was no marketplace for them in East Anglia and moved out.
So what routes might work in/out of Shoreham that haven't already been tried and failed, not even JEA (FlyBE) could make the Channel Islands work out of Shoreham!
And, particularly bearing in mind Shoreham's restricted navigational aids, should LGW not be too willing to accept puddle jumper diversions where are they going to use an an alternate? Biggin Hill can't accept fare paying passenger movements, I guess there's SOU but then I understand there is limited ramp space which kinda leaves BOH, MSE or Lydd ... not really ideal!
This is a case of someone trying to be a smart@ss, if the south-east needs an air route to/from Paris then do it out of LGW and to a PARIS airport and stop trying to be clever trying something that will have a very limited shelf life.
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In fact there are lots of "airlines" that started off with no AOCs and just leased in aircraft. Easyjet used 2 charter operators to operate its flights for months before it got an AOC. Eastern Airways started with a leased in Metro and no AOC and over here Euromanx started with no AOC and a leased in Beach 1900. 2 out of 3 are still going strong so maybe the cautious start has something to say for it. No one can say Stelios or Lakey were fools
No one can say Stelios or Lakey were fools
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I well remember that T3 Metroliner. Seem to recall in flight catering being an orange (or apple if the oranges had run out). Anyway, T3 did ok and with the exception of Southampton, Cardiff and Norwich, I've used all of their stations from ABZ. 19 seat puddle jumper is fine when you have a day's paid work to get done and the schedules suit. I can think of 4 pax that would use Brighton - Edinburgh on a very regular basis if it was available. 
I can think of 4 pax that would use Brighton - Edinburgh on a very regular basis if it was available.
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well i say good luck to them, they are certainly going to need it, but if it works well done.
This point has always interested me, i know that the Tunnel dented the LON-PAR air market, but surely there is room for perhaps BA LGW-ORY ? twice daily ?
cs
This is a case of someone trying to be a smart@ss, if the south-east needs an
air route to/from Paris then do it out of LGW and to a PARIS airport and
stop trying to be clever trying something that will have a very limited shelf
life.
air route to/from Paris then do it out of LGW and to a PARIS airport and
stop trying to be clever trying something that will have a very limited shelf
life.
cs
Haven't seen anything on the web on this outfit for about 6 or 7 weeks. Anybody else seen anything such as local publicity or advertising in Sussex, or have they now all gone quiet on the marketing front ?
Mr Laughton sold his business to Balfour Beattie for £8m so he might be taking a wild punt and be willing to lose some money in an attempt to have his own airline (let's face it, I'd be tempted if I won the Euro lottery - although my wife has standing instructions to kill me if I ever seriously thought about investing in my own little start up airline!)...
However a couple of oddities strike me. He's not a Director of City Airways, which seems strange. And the economics of having an aircraft sit idle for several hours in the middle of the day seems to go contrary to everything I've ever read about utilization (I'm sure there are experts who could put me right on that).
However a couple of oddities strike me. He's not a Director of City Airways, which seems strange. And the economics of having an aircraft sit idle for several hours in the middle of the day seems to go contrary to everything I've ever read about utilization (I'm sure there are experts who could put me right on that).
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Quote: "This is a case of someone trying to be a smart@ss, if the south-east needs an air route to/from Paris then do it out of LGW and to a PARIS airport and stop trying to be clever trying something that will have a very limited shelf life."
Quote: "Let's not kid ourselves that people flying to Pontoise are all going to Paris. Is everyone who flies to Luton going to London? No, of course not."
Let's nail this nonsense about Pontoise. POX is a "Paris" airport. It's about as far away from the centre as CDG and a little further than ORY.
That makes it closer to Paris centre than LHR, OXF, NHT, FAB, LGW, LTN, LYX, STN, and SEN (and MSE, SOU, BOH and CBG when they finally jump on the "London" bandwagon) are to London centre.
Quote: "I well remember that T3 Metroliner. Seem to recall in flight catering being an orange (or apple if the oranges had run out). Anyway, T3 did ok and with the exception of Southampton, Cardiff and Norwich, I've used all of their stations from ABZ. 19 seat puddle jumper is fine when you have a day's paid work to get done and the schedules suit. I can think of 4 pax that would use Brighton - Edinburgh on a very regular basis if it was available"
No puddles betwen ESH and EDI! (only kidding)
Quote: "This point has always interested me, i know that the Tunnel dented the LON-PAR air market, but surely there is room for perhaps BA LGW-ORY ? twice daily ?"
Hasn't dented it that much, and don't forget the ferries, Newhaven-Dieppe down the road, Dover/Folkestone-Boulogne/Calais along the coast.
Moreover, as mentioned by another poster, not everyone is going city centre to city centre. Also a choice of different types of travel is good.
Quote: "Let's not kid ourselves that people flying to Pontoise are all going to Paris. Is everyone who flies to Luton going to London? No, of course not."
Let's nail this nonsense about Pontoise. POX is a "Paris" airport. It's about as far away from the centre as CDG and a little further than ORY.
That makes it closer to Paris centre than LHR, OXF, NHT, FAB, LGW, LTN, LYX, STN, and SEN (and MSE, SOU, BOH and CBG when they finally jump on the "London" bandwagon) are to London centre.
Quote: "I well remember that T3 Metroliner. Seem to recall in flight catering being an orange (or apple if the oranges had run out). Anyway, T3 did ok and with the exception of Southampton, Cardiff and Norwich, I've used all of their stations from ABZ. 19 seat puddle jumper is fine when you have a day's paid work to get done and the schedules suit. I can think of 4 pax that would use Brighton - Edinburgh on a very regular basis if it was available"
No puddles betwen ESH and EDI! (only kidding)
Quote: "This point has always interested me, i know that the Tunnel dented the LON-PAR air market, but surely there is room for perhaps BA LGW-ORY ? twice daily ?"
Hasn't dented it that much, and don't forget the ferries, Newhaven-Dieppe down the road, Dover/Folkestone-Boulogne/Calais along the coast.
Moreover, as mentioned by another poster, not everyone is going city centre to city centre. Also a choice of different types of travel is good.
Last edited by Fairdealfrank; 25th Feb 2013 at 18:02.
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If you have a whizzy new aircraft with a whizzy new price tag, you'll have to maximise the utilisation to generate enough revenue to pay the rent (note (1): that extra utilisation needs to at least cover its variable costs, and (2) there are various other benefits from increasing utilisation: more hours for same number of crew, etc.)
However if you have an older aircraft whose fixed costs are very low, you can just focus on flying at the most profitable times. This is what VLM used to do in LCY when the market was still good. This is largely what Eastern still do.
The provider of the aircraft in this case has probably negotiated a deal based on "pay us £x per hour, as long as you fly Y hours per month", and Y is not particularly large (older aircraft, etc. - see above).
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On the other hand, the time is right for 19-seaters to make a comeback, and the L410 has a lot going for it. If (when) struggling regional airports realise that their future lies in being small, fast, unique and close and give up their fixation with attracting big loads of budget travellers, then we'll see a lot more of this kind of niche operation.
There is a world of difference between the way you need to utilise a high cost, high depreciation, new aircraft to the way you can utilise a low cost, written down, (necessarily) older aircraft. You need to generate very high daily revenues with the former but much less daily revenue on the latter can still turn an operating profit. In a nutshell your fixed costs are lower, although of course no "aircraft make(s) money when it's not flying" - that would be a good trick to pull.
I assume that BCA are looking to maximise inbound traffic from France but I feel they need a French language section on their website to achieve that.
I assume that BCA are looking to maximise inbound traffic from France but I feel they need a French language section on their website to achieve that.