Qantas grounding?
The first being Joyce's 71% pay increase. If the company is battling, how can the "leader" justify any of his claims to move jobs off shore, restructure, etc.
Some people are incentivised to grow top line figures etc, and like it or not, some are incentivised to cut out dead wood and the like, effectively shrinking revenues, staff numbers and losing money in the short term.
Its not rocket science but many fail to understand his role is about business, not keeping Australians employed in a dying company.
(Sorry of I am not supposed to post here but it does amaze me how many times this misunderstanding is raised in circumstances such as these.)
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What will happen to the poor crews stuck around the world. Wouldn't surprise me if AJ chucked them out of the hotels and told them to make their own way back to OZ!
Sorry to be really thick about this, but are Qantas really dumping crews at outstations ?? If so, my commiserations to all passengers and crew left in the lurch...
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You can have heavily unionised under performing airlines or you can have cheap flights but not both, unfortunately the travelling public that pay our wages seem to prefer the latter....
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"It's our airline"???
Yes, if you believe in socialism....not really if you believe in private property.
Alternatively would you like the Federal government (taxpayer) to buy all the outstanding (relatively cheap at the moment) shares? That has not worked, (socialism, or taxpayer bailouts) ever in history by the way.
Actually, the owners of Qantas are the shareholders, so it is not really your airline, and they are the ones risking their savings for profit or loss. Would you like to buy some stock in the company? Feel free, you are only one computer click away from being an owner.
Who did TWA or the Iconic Pan American world airways belong to? (and many others....ad infititum)
Of course nowadays Obama would probably say the unions using GM & Chrysler as an example.
Anyway, the future of Qantas & stakeholders (& shareholders)? I would go long on the stock, about late next week, could be the bottom. (I don't own any Shares, QAN.AX on NYE) as of today)
When I was a youngster......I did not always believe that history would repeat itself....now that I am older, I am not so sure.
"History does not always repeat, but it often rhymes"
-Mark Twain
Alternatively would you like the Federal government (taxpayer) to buy all the outstanding (relatively cheap at the moment) shares? That has not worked, (socialism, or taxpayer bailouts) ever in history by the way.
Actually, the owners of Qantas are the shareholders, so it is not really your airline, and they are the ones risking their savings for profit or loss. Would you like to buy some stock in the company? Feel free, you are only one computer click away from being an owner.
Who did TWA or the Iconic Pan American world airways belong to? (and many others....ad infititum)
Of course nowadays Obama would probably say the unions using GM & Chrysler as an example.
Anyway, the future of Qantas & stakeholders (& shareholders)? I would go long on the stock, about late next week, could be the bottom. (I don't own any Shares, QAN.AX on NYE) as of today)
When I was a youngster......I did not always believe that history would repeat itself....now that I am older, I am not so sure.
"History does not always repeat, but it often rhymes"
-Mark Twain
Interesting read. although quite predictable in an aviation forum.
All parties will be harmed, including the public.
The workers blame management and management blames the unionfied demands of the workers.
But to blame a single person (joyce) is ridiculous, no matter what he is paid.
I doubt that an outsider is going to show any sympathy towards the workers for the CEO pay arguments
If I were the CEO I would volunteer to give up my salary for a year if that were to solve the dispute, it won't so live with the result and arbitrate on different issues.
All parties will be harmed, including the public.
The workers blame management and management blames the unionfied demands of the workers.
But to blame a single person (joyce) is ridiculous, no matter what he is paid.
I doubt that an outsider is going to show any sympathy towards the workers for the CEO pay arguments
If I were the CEO I would volunteer to give up my salary for a year if that were to solve the dispute, it won't so live with the result and arbitrate on different issues.
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You can have heavily unionised under performing airlines or you can have cheap flights but not both, unfortunately the travelling public that pay our wages seem to prefer the latter....
Simple, insightful and oh so true. Pity so many people cannot get their head around this simple reality.
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Having "no dog" in this fight I would like to ask a couple of questions:
1. What was Joyce's salary before the 71% raise and what is it after he got a 71% raise?
2. Did he unilaterally grant himself the raise?
3. Did he unilaterally shut down the the airline?
4. When a Qantas worker gets their pay check who's bank account is that check dawn on, the unions or Qantas?
1. What was Joyce's salary before the 71% raise and what is it after he got a 71% raise?
2. Did he unilaterally grant himself the raise?
3. Did he unilaterally shut down the the airline?
4. When a Qantas worker gets their pay check who's bank account is that check dawn on, the unions or Qantas?
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So how will the CEO become a better CEO by giving himself 2 mills as a bonus??????????????
How will that help the company?
Its ridiculous that one man can give himself a pay rise. If he can, why cant I?
And he is not worth that either, to be added...
He is to blame for all this mess Qantas is in. As I said before, Walsh didnt do any of these stupid things during negotiations, and he turned it around.
How will that help the company?
Its ridiculous that one man can give himself a pay rise. If he can, why cant I?
And he is not worth that either, to be added...
He is to blame for all this mess Qantas is in. As I said before, Walsh didnt do any of these stupid things during negotiations, and he turned it around.
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Yiking101,
So how will the CEO become a better CEO by giving himself 2 mills as a bonus??????????????
So how will the CEO become a better CEO by giving himself 2 mills as a bonus??????????????
What is a “mill” anyway?
A. One mill is equal to one tenth of one penny or one 1/1000 of a dollar.
What will happen to the poor crews stuck around the world. Wouldn't surprise me if AJ chucked them out of the hotels and told them to make their own way back to OZ!
to save you the trouble of reading the entire thread reply number 3 by Skillsy states that staff overseas will not be locked out and will continue to be paid.
The strike only grounded all aircraft out of Base, those overseas at the time returned then stopped, our hotel bills were met until the local management had had enough of us, then they sent us home on other carriers at their ( management ) expense, so the lads overseas were looked after until they got home, then they had to make a decision.
Not supporting any argument, just saying what happened.
A very sad day, no-one will "win"
Qantas Australian controlled?
1. J P Morgan Nominees Australia 514,714,244 shares 22.72%
2. HSBC Custody Nominees (Australia) Limited 428,322,920 shares 18.91%
3. National Nominees Limited 413,707,968 shares 18.26%
4. Citicorp Nominees Pty Limited 253,053,991 shares 11.17%
Leigh Clifford and Alan Joyce have been planning the grounding for many months with key staff positioned world wide and block hotel bookings confirmed in Australia and world wide weeks ago.
All this a day after the Qantas AGM where Joyce picked up 71% or $3 mill per annum pay increase.
1. J P Morgan Nominees Australia 514,714,244 shares 22.72%
2. HSBC Custody Nominees (Australia) Limited 428,322,920 shares 18.91%
3. National Nominees Limited 413,707,968 shares 18.26%
4. Citicorp Nominees Pty Limited 253,053,991 shares 11.17%
Leigh Clifford and Alan Joyce have been planning the grounding for many months with key staff positioned world wide and block hotel bookings confirmed in Australia and world wide weeks ago.
All this a day after the Qantas AGM where Joyce picked up 71% or $3 mill per annum pay increase.
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I don't care how bang up a job a CEO does. Making 5 million per year is just bullcrap. When did it become fashionable to pay a CEO a hundred or a thousand times more than your line employees?
What has happened is that management has siphoned profit out of a company for their own gain and have not allowed the line employee the chance to participate in the company's success. Industry after industry have seen this scenario play out. At some point there will be no one left to support all those service jobs that remain in our "first world" countries. We all can't work at Starbucks.
What has happened is that management has siphoned profit out of a company for their own gain and have not allowed the line employee the chance to participate in the company's success. Industry after industry have seen this scenario play out. At some point there will be no one left to support all those service jobs that remain in our "first world" countries. We all can't work at Starbucks.
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malr
What is the 30 second announcement that the crews were doing that upset the management? Were they slamming on the airline?
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1. J P Morgan Nominees Australia 514,714,244 shares 22.72%
2. HSBC Custody Nominees (Australia) Limited 428,322,920 shares 18.91%
3. National Nominees Limited 413,707,968 shares 18.26%
4. Citicorp Nominees Pty Limited 253,053,991 shares 11.17%
2. HSBC Custody Nominees (Australia) Limited 428,322,920 shares 18.91%
3. National Nominees Limited 413,707,968 shares 18.26%
4. Citicorp Nominees Pty Limited 253,053,991 shares 11.17%
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I don't care how bang up a job a CEO does. Making 5 million per year is just bullcrap. When did it become fashionable to pay a CEO a hundred or a thousand times more than your line employees?
The line employed is hired to do a job.
The CEO is hired to run the company.
Eight Gun Fighter
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Into the ground, it seems, in this case.
Qantas' decision to ground the entire Qantas fleet is "holding a knife to the nation's throat" and CEO Alan Joyce has "gone mad", the Australian and International Pilots Association (AIPA) says.
AIPA vice president Richard Woodward said the move was "premeditated, unnecessary and grossly irresponsible".
"Alan Joyce is holding a knife to the nation's throat," Captain Woodward said.
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"No-one predicted this, because no one thought Alan Joyce was completely mad.
"This is a stunning overreaction. It is straight-up blackmail.
"I knew he was trying to kill Qantas, but I didn't know he wanted to do it this quickly.
"This is a grave and serious situation and the board should move to sack Mr Joyce immediately. This is the saddest day of my 25 years with Qantas."
He said AIPA's industrial action has been limited to making brief, positive in-flight announcements and wearing red ties.
"In response to this, Mr Joyce has now locked out every pilot working for Qantas. This is nothing short of crazy behaviour," he said.
"Mr Joyce is stranding thousands of Qantas passengers all across the globe so he can engage in his mad game of one-upmanship. All so he can pursue his delusion that Qantas should be an Asian airline, instead of an Australian one.
"We believe this action is unlawful and we are currently seeking legal advice.
" He has locked out short-haul 737 pilots who aren't even involved in any action at all.
Mr Woodward said this action would have been planned months in advance.
"Let's be clear about this: Mr Joyce would have planned to strand thousands of Qantas passengers all across the globe months ago," he said.
"To ground your entire fleet, when doing so is completely unnecessary, is not the act of a sane and reasonable person.
"He has snatched his ill-deserved millions on Friday and grounded the airline on Saturday.
Qantas' decision to ground the entire Qantas fleet is "holding a knife to the nation's throat" and CEO Alan Joyce has "gone mad", the Australian and International Pilots Association (AIPA) says.
AIPA vice president Richard Woodward said the move was "premeditated, unnecessary and grossly irresponsible".
"Alan Joyce is holding a knife to the nation's throat," Captain Woodward said.
Advertisement: Story continues below
"No-one predicted this, because no one thought Alan Joyce was completely mad.
"This is a stunning overreaction. It is straight-up blackmail.
"I knew he was trying to kill Qantas, but I didn't know he wanted to do it this quickly.
"This is a grave and serious situation and the board should move to sack Mr Joyce immediately. This is the saddest day of my 25 years with Qantas."
He said AIPA's industrial action has been limited to making brief, positive in-flight announcements and wearing red ties.
"In response to this, Mr Joyce has now locked out every pilot working for Qantas. This is nothing short of crazy behaviour," he said.
"Mr Joyce is stranding thousands of Qantas passengers all across the globe so he can engage in his mad game of one-upmanship. All so he can pursue his delusion that Qantas should be an Asian airline, instead of an Australian one.
"We believe this action is unlawful and we are currently seeking legal advice.
" He has locked out short-haul 737 pilots who aren't even involved in any action at all.
Mr Woodward said this action would have been planned months in advance.
"Let's be clear about this: Mr Joyce would have planned to strand thousands of Qantas passengers all across the globe months ago," he said.
"To ground your entire fleet, when doing so is completely unnecessary, is not the act of a sane and reasonable person.
"He has snatched his ill-deserved millions on Friday and grounded the airline on Saturday.
Last edited by Rollingthunder; 29th Oct 2011 at 21:02.
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1989
Does anyone remember 1989?Strong had his face on T.V. every time you turned on.A Labor Government was in power and two great airlines ceased to exist today.
P.S. the Government of the day called in the Airforce.
P.S. the Government of the day called in the Airforce.
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@glhcarl Well, a base salary of 5 million is just ridiculous. However, if it's based on performance incentives and/or profit margins there's nothing wrong with it.
Given Qantas' financial performance I would wager a guess that this is simply a base salary (making it ridiculous). I can't say definitively though as I haven't found anything saying one way or the other.
Grounding an entire airline though? Over a labor dispute? Sounds like 1870s union busting tactics... or Ryanair.
Given Qantas' financial performance I would wager a guess that this is simply a base salary (making it ridiculous). I can't say definitively though as I haven't found anything saying one way or the other.
Grounding an entire airline though? Over a labor dispute? Sounds like 1870s union busting tactics... or Ryanair.