SOUTHAMPTON
Can anyone from SOU management, or with a contact to them, explain why they still have not introduced RNAV/GNSS instrument approach procedures to provide better than the current archaic offset VOR/DME and NDB IAPs. I flew into a UK GA aerodrome a few weeks ago via GNSS procedure, broke cloud (above OCH) and there was the runway straight in front of me - simples!
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The GNSS procedure is still being worked through. When introducing a new procedure there are multiple layers to go through (some would call them hoops!) The CAP725 consultation is just the start of proceedings, you then need to get the procedure designed, validate the procedure, carry out further obstacle surveys and then work to mitigate against any issues that the regulator may come up with. Once all of this is complete you can then enter the procedure into the AIRAC cycle which takes another 2 months before the first aeroplane can fly it.
It's fair to say that following the consultation, the airport did not expect the rest to take as long as it has. It's still a work in progress and they are working through a number of items to complete the final safety case. You also need to make sure that your partner airlines have the technology to be able to fly the procedure!
One important point to note is that the minima will not improve greatly. The implementation of the GNSS approach is to provide a resilient and future proofed procedure following the national removal of the DVOR's by NATS.
It's fair to say that following the consultation, the airport did not expect the rest to take as long as it has. It's still a work in progress and they are working through a number of items to complete the final safety case. You also need to make sure that your partner airlines have the technology to be able to fly the procedure!
One important point to note is that the minima will not improve greatly. The implementation of the GNSS approach is to provide a resilient and future proofed procedure following the national removal of the DVOR's by NATS.
destinationsky
Am more than familiar with the regulatory process, it's part of what I now do to keep the old grey matter active, and how ridiculous some of the hoops that you have to jump through invariably are. Furthermore I am totally aware of the obstacle environments for RWY 02 & 20, so never expected any improvements in minima, just having the aircraft aligned on the runway centreline at the MAPt is a major consideration to a successful approach.
From what you indicate can we now expect RNAV/GNSS procedures in the next few months? If so can we now expect attention to be focussed on the outstanding tree problem south of the runway to improve take-off performance on RWY 20 and make the RWY 02 approach lighting obstacle free areas CAP 168 compliant in order that I can see it on base leg?
Am more than familiar with the regulatory process, it's part of what I now do to keep the old grey matter active, and how ridiculous some of the hoops that you have to jump through invariably are. Furthermore I am totally aware of the obstacle environments for RWY 02 & 20, so never expected any improvements in minima, just having the aircraft aligned on the runway centreline at the MAPt is a major consideration to a successful approach.
From what you indicate can we now expect RNAV/GNSS procedures in the next few months? If so can we now expect attention to be focussed on the outstanding tree problem south of the runway to improve take-off performance on RWY 20 and make the RWY 02 approach lighting obstacle free areas CAP 168 compliant in order that I can see it on base leg?
destinationsky
......and I would speculate that you already have the required survey data, if you want a safety case speak to NATS they would dearly like to keep their contract.
As far as mitigation goes, you have Class D airspace, a luxury that GA aerodromes in Class G airspace/ bandit country do not have. Should be a walk in the park with the generic Safety Cases that are available.
Provide the procedure and the customers will fit the kit.
......and I would speculate that you already have the required survey data, if you want a safety case speak to NATS they would dearly like to keep their contract.
As far as mitigation goes, you have Class D airspace, a luxury that GA aerodromes in Class G airspace/ bandit country do not have. Should be a walk in the park with the generic Safety Cases that are available.
Provide the procedure and the customers will fit the kit.
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I have been reading the 2006 master plan for Southampton where the forecast was that passenger numbers would grow from 1.84 million in 2005 to 3.05 million by 2015. So what went wrong seeing that passenger numbers are lower now than in 2005?
Was it actually ever achievable or just a fantasy report based on wrong assumptions?
Also noted that the forecast from 2015 - 2030 was to grow from 3.05 million to 6 million.
Link to the 2006 master plan can be found here AirportWatch | Southampton Airport
Was it actually ever achievable or just a fantasy report based on wrong assumptions?Also noted that the forecast from 2015 - 2030 was to grow from 3.05 million to 6 million.
Link to the 2006 master plan can be found here AirportWatch | Southampton Airport
LTNman
I would suggest that what went wrong was "events dear boy, events" as Harold Macmillan memorably said many decades ago A near doubling of predicted passenger numbers over ten years during a period, which 2005 certainly was within, of considerable growth in air travel doesn't strike me as being a "fantasy". I'm sure there were many other such predictions/assumptions around that time which were much more optimistic than Southampton's.
I've never placed much faith in growth predictions as they are subject to matters totally beyond the control of airport operators. Numerous time I have been asked to produce a three-year growth prediction on a new air route but have always balked when asked to extend it further to five years as I saw that as being meaningless.
I would suggest that what went wrong was "events dear boy, events" as Harold Macmillan memorably said many decades ago A near doubling of predicted passenger numbers over ten years during a period, which 2005 certainly was within, of considerable growth in air travel doesn't strike me as being a "fantasy". I'm sure there were many other such predictions/assumptions around that time which were much more optimistic than Southampton's.
I've never placed much faith in growth predictions as they are subject to matters totally beyond the control of airport operators. Numerous time I have been asked to produce a three-year growth prediction on a new air route but have always balked when asked to extend it further to five years as I saw that as being meaningless.
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I have been reading the 2006 master plan for Southampton where the forecast was that passenger numbers would grow from 1.84 million in 2005 to 3.05 million by 2015. So what went wrong seeing that passenger numbers are lower now than in 2005? Was it actually ever achievable or just a fantasy report based on wrong assumptions?
Also noted that the forecast from 2015 - 2030 was to grow from 3.05 million to 6 million.
Also noted that the forecast from 2015 - 2030 was to grow from 3.05 million to 6 million.
Other regional airports in the south of Britain were also wide of the mark in their master plan predictions of a decade ago, which were prompted by the then government's 2003 White Paper The Future of Air Transport.
Cardiff Airport predicted 4.796 mppa by 2015 and 7.813 mppa by 2030. 2015 actually saw 1.158 mppa which, in fact, is over 40% down on that airport's best year, 2007.
Exeter airport predicted low and high case scenarios of 1.415-1.956 mppa by 2015 and 1.926-4.037 mppa by 2030. 2015 actually saw 0.821 mppa.
Bristol Airport predicted 8.075 mppa by 2015 and 12.476 mppa by 2030. 2015 actually saw 6.781 mppa.
All this seems to suggest that it's impossible to predict with any degree of accuracy airport growth over ten years let alone 25 years.
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Exactly. It's one of the events (see Expressflight's post above) that can intrude when trying to forecast airport passenger numbers years in advance, along with other negative influences such as high oil prices and terrorism, or positive factors such as the startling rise of low-cost airlines during the first decade of this century that have revolutionised some regional airports, and which few if any people would have forecast in the early 1990s. Because no-one knows if or when these events will occur, or what they will be if they do, it makes accurately forecasting/predicting next to impossible most of the time.
A better guide might be to look at how an airport has performed in relation to all the others in the country because major events usually affect all airports to a greater or lesser degree.
In SOU's case it's seen a reasonably consistent performance over the past 15 years.
Looking at Table 01 of the CAA stats, in 2000 SOU handled 0.5% of the total passenger numbers at all UK airports. In 2005 this had risen to 0.8% which was the same percentage in 2010. In 2015 the percentage had dropped slightly to 0.7.
A better guide might be to look at how an airport has performed in relation to all the others in the country because major events usually affect all airports to a greater or lesser degree.
In SOU's case it's seen a reasonably consistent performance over the past 15 years.
Looking at Table 01 of the CAA stats, in 2000 SOU handled 0.5% of the total passenger numbers at all UK airports. In 2005 this had risen to 0.8% which was the same percentage in 2010. In 2015 the percentage had dropped slightly to 0.7.
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It appears that there were some issues last night and this morning with flights cancelled or diverted to FAB, slightly unusual. originally believed it was due to weather last night but this morning it's cleared up nicely, certainly nice enough for the inaugural Munich flight to land.
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FAB Diverts
Presumably (?) you're getting that information from Flightradar. The smaller aircraft tend to get lost on FR24 once they get quite low and the website plots an arrival airport based on where it 'lost' the signal for that aircraft. Thus, a number of aircraft have been showing as diverted to Farnborough when actually they landed at SOU.
https://www.flightradar24.com/data/a...-ecog/#96b39ef
An example, that says diverted to FAB, but if you look at the track, the aircraft was turning in for an approach into SOU when it's track got lost. It never diverted.
https://www.flightradar24.com/data/a...-ecog/#96b39ef
An example, that says diverted to FAB, but if you look at the track, the aircraft was turning in for an approach into SOU when it's track got lost. It never diverted.
This is down to the way "MLAT" works (inaccurately) in FR24.
A scheduled commercial flight would never divert to FAB.
In other SOU news - the bmiR service from MUC started today.
A scheduled commercial flight would never divert to FAB.
In other SOU news - the bmiR service from MUC started today.
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1st post and I end up embarrassing myself. I did think it was very strange, considering the lack of commercial facilities at FAB as well as the fact BOH is closer. Looking at the play back it does appear to be holding. I've never noticed this issue before but I only tend to pay attention to BOH and SOU
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Cork...
There was to have been a new Cork (reinstated) route by AerLingus Regional.. This is not appearing anywhere, ie not on AerLingus.ie or mention of it on the thread here, well not since it was announced.
Surprised this has not gotten a mention...
Surprised this has not gotten a mention...
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EI-BUD
You could of checked the timetable of the Southampton Airport website or even googled it as there are pictures online showing the inaugural flight, it's not all about Pprune you know!
You could of checked the timetable of the Southampton Airport website or even googled it as there are pictures online showing the inaugural flight, it's not all about Pprune you know!