Aer Lingus - 6

[Skipness One Echo]

In this case EI management appears to have decided from a cost-effective viewpoint to use 757's with a specified number of crew. End of story. It's none of the union's business

I'm sorry but you seem to be misunderstanding the point of a union. What's the point of a union if it allows management to decide unilaterally that five people should do the work of four? Or pilots in Belfast are worth less than pilots in Dublin? A "cost-effective point of view" just means paying your staff less and less and less. In this case, I would suggest they can just paint someone elses aircraft green and crew it with contract cheaper crew. I would suggest this was Plan A and Plan B. The customer gets a more "cost effective" service, Aer Lingus takes out an in house staff cost, classic MBA approach. Terms and conditions of people working in the industry tumble further. I mean I am a bit of an old capitalist but the thought that a union should just sit back allow management to cut willy nilly makes me shudder. Four crew on a transatlantic B757 is back to basics cheap and cheerful.

Worth googling BA and AML (Asset Management Limited) if you want to know what happens next. I mean it's hardly the NUM is it?

I feel very sorry for the abandoned trainees and the impact this will have on existing staff. Bright futures all ruined by, yes, wasters.

Whose future earnings are a fraction of what they were due to massive pressure to reduce costs to maintain an unstable business model. Pay peanuts, get monkeys. I am old enough to remember when airlines had their wn ground handling staff who were empowered to do things to help you. Now we get a shrug from a young person on minimum wage employed by Menzies or Servisair for a few years until they tire of being screamed at by hacked off punters. Cost effective? Yup.

[ayroplain]

I'm sorry but you seem to be misunderstanding the point of a union.

I know a lot more about unions, proper unions, than you give me credit for. The EI unions still live in the past. Everyone else has moved on. (well, excluding French and Spanish ATC)

Pay peanuts, get monkeys

Just another over quoted cliche used to ridicule any attempt at reform and disrespectful to thousands of hard-working employees.

I am old enough to remember when airlines had their own ground handling staff who were empowered to do things to help you

......and empowered themselves to walk off the job leaving thousands of EI passengers (and passengers of other airlines they handled at the time) stranded for hours at check-in desks, gates and even on aircraft closed up and ready to go. I suppose you don't remember that!

The current EI management is the best they've ever had and if EI is to continue to move forward this union problem has to be solved once and for all. 30 new trainees were delighted to be getting a job with EI and I'm quite sure were quite prepared to work hard at 4 per flight. Their minds will not have been poisoned by old-fashioned and outdated unionised thinking.

[Skipness One Echo]

EI is to continue to move forward this union problem has to be solved once and for all.

You mean "broken" don't you. The key is to realise when you've gone too far, this is union busting. btw "moving forward" is just a meaningless platitude. I don't see anything to cheer about in staff being paid less or made to work to levels no other operator has attempted.

30 new trainees were delighted to be getting a job with EI and I'm quite sure were quite prepared to work hard at 4 per flight.

Yes indeed, for a few years until they burn out and leave so they can be replaced by younger and fresher meat. I know how it works thanks, I'm just sick to the back teeth of seeing it as the medium term result once the bonuses have been paid and management has moved on is a staff merry go round on ever lower terms and conditions. Which is why, unless you're a white collar professional, you need a union.
Look at Ryanair. That's what happens when you have *no* union, that's where Aer Lingus are trying to go with this. If they can remove unionised staff from long haul on the B757, the next step, and one I would fully support were I managing this, would be to break them off the A330 somehow. Three cheers for paying your enthusiastic trainees less with no pension btw The only generation to be poorer than their parents in living memory, because we as a market have really dumb and misplaced expectations of delivery versus cost base.

[TSR2]

The current EI management is the best they've ever had

But solving industrial relations problems does not seem one of their strong points.

[ayroplain]

Look at Ryanair. That's what happens when you have *no* union,

Good for them and, as a result, they have 81 million pax and growing plus another 175 aircraft on order and a great punctuality record to add to great fares. Aer Lingus had an almost 50 year start on them but were going nowhere until comparatively recently.

To me the only downside of FR is the website which, thankfully, is going to be revamped. I have never personally experienced or seen anything other than friendliness and courtesy from Ryanair staff. They are not the uncaring, rude people that a few with other agendas love to go on about. It's a joy to travel with them, worry-free before, during and after the flight.

I can fully understand how people brought up in the tradition of "old" Aer Lingus regret the passing of those good ol' cushy days but now they're gone, they're definitely gone.

[MCDU2]

Why don't you stop posting on the AL thread then since all you want to talk about is your love affair with FR?

[ayroplain]

Why don't you stop posting on the AL thread then since all you want to talk about is your love affair with FR?

You should read the full version rather than comment on one post. If you had, you'd see that it was another poster who brought Ryanair into it to which I merely replied. Do you normally start reading a book at Chapter 5?

[Mr Angry from Purley]

Last Thursday, Aer Lingus was informed by Impact that they will not agree to crewing the Boeing 757 operations,” an airline spokesman said. “We were obliged to instruct ACL that they should start recruiting to crew the aircraft. As a direct result, Aer Lingus, rather than growing its cabin crew employee numbers, will now have a surplus of cabin crew. We have therefore had to notify a group of 30 recently hired cabin crew trainees that their training has been cancelled with immediate effect, as the roles for which they were training will no longer exist in Aer Lingus.

Surely these Cabin Crew would then just run across the road to ACL for a job!

[aer lingus]

Would ACL employ them, doubt it.

[Mr Angry from Purley]

Would ACL employ them, doubt it

Why not, not their fault (ACL or the new crew)

[dublinaviator]

Exactly, there's no reason why ACL wouldn't take them. If anything, Aer Lingus have done all the hard work in terms of selection, ACL just have to set down terms of employment.

[EI-A330-300]

Aer Lingus sues the state for 61 million over the illegal period of the tax before the flat rate of €3 was introduced in March 2011. They failed to have it fast tracked but the case will proceed as normal in the courts.

[larry the man]

Classic!

Aer Lingus have a big hole in their pension fund which they don't want to pour more money into, so they target their central shareholder to offset the problem for a load of millions by repaying money directly to EI which passengers paid out in the first instance.

One would think the answer from Mr Central Govt would be - that's all great, give us all of the names and addresses of the passengers who were over-charged and we'll rebate them all directly by means of Tax rebate.....

Honestly - the combined brainpower of Beckett, Joyce, Swift and o'Casey couldnt dream it up.

[Hangar6]

EI B757

First one now in SNN EI-LBR B757 - 200 , ex Finnair OH-LBR ,
To be leased to EI by AIr Contractors for SNn and Dublin secondary t/ATL services Q1 2013.
Wish all well on the venture

[EI-A330-300]

Well the refusal of crew in SNN to operate has resulted in 87 CC being given the chop but can apply to Air Contractors to operate out of SNN or relocate to DUB?ORK if available.

Aer Lingus cutting 87 cabin crew jobs at Shannon - RTÉ News

[vkid]

big two fingers to the unions...

[Jamie2k9]

A330-200 being scheduled on some DUB-FAO flights next summer, to free up SH capacity

[EISNN]

Surprised it hasn't happened sooner and that they aren't using the 330-300 - They'd certainly fill it I would have thought. 330 is used daily on morning AGP flights during the summer schedule too isn't it?

[irish lad]

EI cabin crew vote in favor of going on strike... Again! This time over the closure of the Shannon crew base, where they're refusing to fly the transatlantic planes next year.

[sprite1]

@ Larry the man:

Aer Lingus paid the departure tax for those passengers. The rebate EI are seeking is their money. Not the passengers who flew with them over the years.

Makes you wonder what else is incorrect on this thread.....