Virgin Atlantic

[LAX_LHR]

I know at LHR, BA seem to disembark from Door 1L and reposition the bridge to 2L for boarding if there's only the one.

Not always. Been on plenty of mid-J B747's (where WT+ is behind F) and the jetbridge has been attached to 2L. Crew either try their best to keep WT+ seated and get F off first, or, admit defeat and just let WT+ off as quickly as they can followed by F (so, not a bad perk for those in WT+ really).

[CabinCrewe]

Any recent BA 747 trips in F ive boarded and disembarked from 1L.

[Skipness One Echo]

Seems Delta and Virgin are involved in some schedule changes this winter, with VS launching ATL and DL to LAX, each rotation at the expense of the partner.

[davidjohnson6]

What's the reason for swapping rotations ? Better sized aircraft for each route in winter or is it marketing wanting to be touchy-feely with the public before deeper integration that will be of higher visibility to customers ?

[SealinkBF]

I think this is about expanding each airlines 'footprint' in the States - so as to provide as wide a range of connections as possible.

So your die hard Virgin fans can now choose VS to ATL, and likewise with DL to LAX.

[azz767]

LGW/MAN based 747's

Just wondering if all of the beech fleet had been re-fitted and if not, which ones haven't? Im off to orlando on 25th of june from Manchester and am hoping for the new product, if there is still frames with the old product

[adfly]

I think they all have been re-fitted for over a year now so you have nothing to worry about!

[caaardiff]

I've just had an email advising these changes:

- 5th Daily LHR-JFK service
- Daily LHR-DTW service, currently operated by DL but VS taking on.
- Additional daily LHR-LAX service
- 2nd Daily LHR-ATL service (Summer only)
- Additional LHR-SFO (Extra 5 a week)
- 2nd Daily LHR-MIA (Winter only)
- Daily MAN-ATL service

- DL will take on 1 of the LHR-EWR services
- DL will launch new MAN-JFK service (Summer 15)

- LHR-NRT dropped 31 Jan 15
- LHR-BOM dropped 31 Jan 15
- LHR-YVR dropped after this season
- LHR-CPT dropped 26 Apr 15

Some big changes and strengthening over the Atlantic

[jackieofalltrades]

Some exciting, but not surprising changes. I'm curious as to Virgin dropping the LHR-YVR route. I don't know what the loads were like, I wonder if it was just not profitable enough. I would like to see Virgin expand in to Canada, rather than pull out. I would have thought Toronto and Montreal would have been good places to fly into.

[PAXboy]

For me, the surprise is leaving CPT. After SA did the same, that gives BA the UK monopoly year round. Very curious.

[Capetonian]

SAA can't make UK routes pay because they run the airline as the ANC's private air taxi service. So they're not relevant here other than insofar as they handed passengers to their competitors.

BA can make the route pay with double daily through the summer, and double daily 3 times a week through the rest of the year. Their 777s are certainly more cost effective per RPK than VS's 340-600s, and the 744s may be.

I suspect that VS have got revenue management and marketing wrong on the route, and that there are some internal politics involved in this decision.

[Peter47]

Very interesting all round & I would be interested to hear others views & comments. My view (along I know a number of others) is that VS has been mismanaged for a while. I was wondering if a 49% minority stake would be enough for DL to make changes but it appears that it is. Perhaps SRB has seen the light & taking more of a back seat. A bright future for VS?

I wonder if the problem with YVR is that being a summer only operation VS cannot agree commercial contracts with major customers. I can't see how summer only ORD makes sense & DL does not have a major presence there. I would have thought operate it year round or not at all.

The trouble with NRT is that UK - Japan market is about half what it was twenty years ago & with a BA/JL joint venture serving both NRT & HND things must be tough for VS.

Presumably Lagos, DXB, PVG & HKG are profitable. I wonder about the last without the traffic to/from SYD but I presume that it works as it is a massive O&D market.

Does anyone see any problems with customers booking DL & receiving VS service or vice versa? I'm not saying that one is better but they are different brands and it could cause confusion. I know upset pax who thought that they were flying BA & were actually travelling AA.

[Flitefone]

Cape Town

Qatar Airways have this week announced a 5x weekly Doha - Capetown.

From the UK that means new one stop connections from LHR, MAN and EDI.

It looks to me like Delta's Virgin is less willing to compete with the Gulf carriers..

[rog747]

VAA
loads on YVR were excellent all season (full flights) so surprised that they have not bothered to expand Canada more but are now dumping her for the 2nd time

as for NRT again always good loads (J and W too)
that's a big surprise as it was an old flagship route.

CPT
VAA has bu**ered about with this route since year dot.
Y loads last season dropped off big time but the J & W were VERY busy
How long is the betting before they bring it back again lol

LAX
after 20 odd years they FINALLY get to build a Clubhouse but ditched the 2nd daily rotation!
the movers, shakers & celebs deserted VAA many moons ago so maybe this is an attempt to woo them back?

HKG & JNB should have been double daily years ago - how long before they
get the chop?

DXB has dropped off a lot and Lagos makes a fortune so again why not LOS double daily?


the A340-600 was disappointing and did not perform & the -300's are well past it but they runs on fumes (cheap to run and acquire but expensive now to maintain)
The fleet now is very ''bitty'' to say the least

Delta-Virgin?
I foresee more changes ahead

SRB is widely rumoured to have said to a previous Director,
''what have you done to my airline''

[Capetonian]

Just listening to an 'expert' pontificating (= hy praat kak) on 567 Cape Talk, saying that against 'all the competition' the route isn't viable as half the revenue is in ZAR. Apart from BA the competition is connecting flights via FRA ZRH AMS PAR etc, and in many cases much longer routings (e.g DXB AUH IST) or less desirable such as via ADD NBO CAI etc.

(QR have just announced non-stop DOH CPT using the Dreamliner.)

[rog747]

i agree the ZAR exchange rate issue on CPT revenues plus ticketing fraud has been an impacting factor in VAA's operation there and the competition.

also for many years now a lot of passengers took advantage of using connecting airlines from the UK and EU via somewhere (although a longer trip) to CPT as their preferred way due to cheaper fares and often a better product, seating and aircraft despite the extra flying time and a stop

[Capetonian]

I just checked the fares out of CPT versus those out of LON, and it is difficult to make a full comparison as the fare structures, bases, and rules differ, but roughly the NUC (=USD) values converted from ZAR and GBP are roughly 25% lower out of CPT across the range.

BA's are more or less in line with the above. So why are BA finding the route profitable and VS not?

[rog747]

INDEED capetonian - and also BA has been 747 year round for years, plus in southern summer season with an extra 747 daily

(777 sometimes off season but still daily)

VAA suffered with ex-RSA fares, exchange rates and T/A ticketing fraud

[jackieofalltrades]

VAA loads on YVR were excellent all season (full flights) so surprised that they have not bothered to expand Canada more but are now dumping her for the 2nd time

Reading this makes it all the more disappointing for me to know that they are pulling out of the YVR route. I get the expansion into DTW with the Delta connections there, but would have thought VS could have made YVR and YYZ profitable.

[xray one]

Delta are now wearing the trousers. Any time they want VAA to start a new route/add a service then something will go as there are no more slots at LHR. With the 787 the NRT, CPT would have been profitable, but the USA routes even more so.

This now leaves VAA vulnerable to a USA downturn. Something they said was would never happen again post 9/11...Delta would just hide behind Chapter 11.