MANCHESTER - 8
Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: Somewhere up there
Posts: 358
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
On the subject of who spends more at the airport: business pax or leisure?....
As a weekly business pax and a fairly frequent leisure pax too, I would agree with most posters here that it is the leisure pax that spends more. On a business trip, the plan is to arrive as late as possible, either go straight to a lounge if I have a business ticket or I'm on Star A or buy a cup of coffee if not. That's it. Same with most of my friends who have to fly for work.
When I have my leisure hat on I arrive earlier and have a bit of a look around and whilst not being tempted by special offers on some D class celebrity's latest nosegay, I am likely to spend more.
However - whereas leisure pax spend more at the airport, business pax generally spend more on their flights - and that is why the airlines and aircraft are there - yields/profits not numbers of bums on seats. And this is why business pax are important to airports even though they don't spend the cash in the shops.
Also can I bust a myth here: having been lucky enough to spend enough of my own flying experiences in business and first (with a lot of economy too). In my experience, first class seems rarely to have any corporate types in there, also business class itself seems an increasing misnomer as high net worth individuals seem to occupy more of these seats these days. You are far more likely to see suits in economy than in business now. Firms cannot / will not fund the costs all too often.
As a weekly business pax and a fairly frequent leisure pax too, I would agree with most posters here that it is the leisure pax that spends more. On a business trip, the plan is to arrive as late as possible, either go straight to a lounge if I have a business ticket or I'm on Star A or buy a cup of coffee if not. That's it. Same with most of my friends who have to fly for work.
When I have my leisure hat on I arrive earlier and have a bit of a look around and whilst not being tempted by special offers on some D class celebrity's latest nosegay, I am likely to spend more.
However - whereas leisure pax spend more at the airport, business pax generally spend more on their flights - and that is why the airlines and aircraft are there - yields/profits not numbers of bums on seats. And this is why business pax are important to airports even though they don't spend the cash in the shops.
Also can I bust a myth here: having been lucky enough to spend enough of my own flying experiences in business and first (with a lot of economy too). In my experience, first class seems rarely to have any corporate types in there, also business class itself seems an increasing misnomer as high net worth individuals seem to occupy more of these seats these days. You are far more likely to see suits in economy than in business now. Firms cannot / will not fund the costs all too often.
Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: Somewhere up there
Posts: 358
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
AF/BE 'CO-OPERATION'
Not picking on these guys in particular, just that I happen to go to Paris a lot, but can anybody tell me when 'codeshares' and 'co-operation' become cartels?
Manchester Paris is AF and BE - that's it. If these two get together where's the competition? I wonder what will happen to the prices?
Also the difference in the flight experience between an AF airbus and a BE Dash is similar to the difference between a bicycle and a car. Call me snobbish but I actually feel quite embarrassed getting off a Dash at a large airport like CDG, it feels like I've just arrived from Sticksville. That's one of the reasons I have generally used AF but now thanks to this tie up there will be less AF to choose from.
Not picking on these guys in particular, just that I happen to go to Paris a lot, but can anybody tell me when 'codeshares' and 'co-operation' become cartels?
Manchester Paris is AF and BE - that's it. If these two get together where's the competition? I wonder what will happen to the prices?
Also the difference in the flight experience between an AF airbus and a BE Dash is similar to the difference between a bicycle and a car. Call me snobbish but I actually feel quite embarrassed getting off a Dash at a large airport like CDG, it feels like I've just arrived from Sticksville. That's one of the reasons I have generally used AF but now thanks to this tie up there will be less AF to choose from.
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: UK
Age: 42
Posts: 111
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
5 out of the 7 daily BE/AF flights will operate using a jet so you can rest assured that you will be able to avoid your ridiculous embarrassment at stepping off the highly efficient, perfect for the job, Q400 
Join Date: May 2001
Posts: 8
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
I agree with All names taken. There is no comparison. I would always choose to fly on a jet operated by a legacy carrier rather than a noisy old prop every time. Its not about being a snob. Its just a more pleasant flying experience.
Quite obviously from some of the replies, some of the crew who work on them can be overly sensitive when a passenger dares to knock their beloved machine. Do get real chaps. Hopefully, one day when you get to fly a real airliner you will realise just how gash the dash was.
Quite obviously from some of the replies, some of the crew who work on them can be overly sensitive when a passenger dares to knock their beloved machine. Do get real chaps. Hopefully, one day when you get to fly a real airliner you will realise just how gash the dash was.
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: Wythenshawe
Posts: 126
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Dash 8 is too low for airbridge/jetway connections. Often parked at remote stands, needing buses, crowded and unpleasant things. And pax can get wet and/or cold getting on and off buses and aircraft.
Dunno about being embarassed as a mere passenger though. My colleagues and I flying Sheds about the place felt a bit self-conscious getting in and out of those ugly old birds. The Airbus is a workplace to feel more proud about! When I'm paxing about, can't say I care as long as the a/c and crew are safe enough. The Dash 8 fits that bill, at least with its UK carrier.
Dunno about being embarassed as a mere passenger though. My colleagues and I flying Sheds about the place felt a bit self-conscious getting in and out of those ugly old birds. The Airbus is a workplace to feel more proud about! When I'm paxing about, can't say I care as long as the a/c and crew are safe enough. The Dash 8 fits that bill, at least with its UK carrier.
Chubbs, I operate on the Airbus.......no wishful thinking on my part. I am also not knocking peoples desire to fly on the jets but more the idiotic notion that people care what a/c you have just flown into CDG on.
As i said I would like to fly on the Dash and intend to do so when I connect to an A380 in Paris. The reason why I am choosing the dash is because i rarely get to fly on turbo props.
And Sticksville, Manchester or wherever the Q400 has ensured that many routes have remained profitable under the recession and also rising oil prices. To me that is more important than vanity.
As i said I would like to fly on the Dash and intend to do so when I connect to an A380 in Paris. The reason why I am choosing the dash is because i rarely get to fly on turbo props.
And Sticksville, Manchester or wherever the Q400 has ensured that many routes have remained profitable under the recession and also rising oil prices. To me that is more important than vanity.
Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: Somewhere up there
Posts: 358
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
hmm
Some of you missing the point about the Dash vs Airbus.....it's about customer choice. I'm a customer therefore it's my personal preference. I've flown on dash 8s dozens of times in the last couple of years nearly always where there's no choice or where the schedule suits me better. For the dash lovers on this forum, try queuing to board one and listen to the disparaging comments from those around you about 'hedgehoppers' and 'old bombers' to learn what pax really think. Anyway as I said, it's my choice, others are entitled to their own opinion.
For easyflyer wanting to try the dash instead of the airbus option, if you do, and again it is your choice, here are a few tips for the journey:
1. Don't expect your normal cabin bag to be accepted, as it's unlikely to fit in the o/h bins on a dash. This might be an expensive surprise at the gate. No probs with this on an airbus.
2. Take an umbrella, you are going to be walking out to your dash and waiting around at the bottom of the stairs whilst people in front of you try to stuff their bags into the undersize o/h bins. No probs there with AF airbus as you will board through an airbridge.
3. Take earplugs if sat near the engines
4. Take something interesting to read as your journey will be a longer one
5. Leave more time for your connection as your dash will be parked in a bussing position at CDG.
But that's really the superficial part of my original post which posed the question: when does codesharing and co-operation between two airlines that have the whole market on a route (any route) become a cartel?
Also another question: how can a full service airline code share with a no frills airline? Would customers not be miffed about paying for a full service airline ticket and ending up with a no frills airline service?
Some of you missing the point about the Dash vs Airbus.....it's about customer choice. I'm a customer therefore it's my personal preference. I've flown on dash 8s dozens of times in the last couple of years nearly always where there's no choice or where the schedule suits me better. For the dash lovers on this forum, try queuing to board one and listen to the disparaging comments from those around you about 'hedgehoppers' and 'old bombers' to learn what pax really think. Anyway as I said, it's my choice, others are entitled to their own opinion.
For easyflyer wanting to try the dash instead of the airbus option, if you do, and again it is your choice, here are a few tips for the journey:
1. Don't expect your normal cabin bag to be accepted, as it's unlikely to fit in the o/h bins on a dash. This might be an expensive surprise at the gate. No probs with this on an airbus.
2. Take an umbrella, you are going to be walking out to your dash and waiting around at the bottom of the stairs whilst people in front of you try to stuff their bags into the undersize o/h bins. No probs there with AF airbus as you will board through an airbridge.
3. Take earplugs if sat near the engines
4. Take something interesting to read as your journey will be a longer one
5. Leave more time for your connection as your dash will be parked in a bussing position at CDG.
But that's really the superficial part of my original post which posed the question: when does codesharing and co-operation between two airlines that have the whole market on a route (any route) become a cartel?
Also another question: how can a full service airline code share with a no frills airline? Would customers not be miffed about paying for a full service airline ticket and ending up with a no frills airline service?
Join Date: May 2009
Location: Southampton, U.K
Posts: 1,263
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
From what I have heard the dash is not much louder than the airbus and also there is pretty much no difference in the duration of the flight between the two-about 5 mins at most as the dash is not a lot slower than a jet on shorter flights and accelerates quicker.
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: UK
Posts: 2,069
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
From what I have heard the dash is not much louder than the airbus and also there is pretty much no difference in the duration of the flight between the two-about 5 mins at most as the dash is not a lot slower than a jet on shorter flights and accelerates quicker.
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: UK
Age: 42
Posts: 111
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
AF/BE
Well I had a very quick look and the fares don't seem to have sky rocketed... it's possible to book a day return in three weeks time for less than £160 all in (via AF site) which is not unreasonable. If the fares do get crazy, then no doubt a third airline will see an opportunity to win some passengers by offering lower fares.
Flybe aren't really a "no-frills" airline - they have rather successfully placed themselves as an inbetween, neither full service nor no-frills, niche airline. They offer lounge access, a frequent flyer program, flexible tickets, interlining/connections and allocated seating etc. The only real difference between AF and BE is that there is no complimentary refreshments on board and there may be a charge for a checked in baggage.
However, it the responsibility of AF to inform passengers booking with them that the flight will be operated by BE and make them aware of the differences. Looking at AF's website it is not specific about meals (says meal info not available) and it says there is a 1 piece/23kg checked bag allowance with no mention of any charges. Of course, it may be that pax booked through AF will be provided with a meal voucher for use on board and a complimentary checked bag... I am sure this will have been considered by those involved in working these things out (at least I would hope so!).
As for the Q400... I agree everyone is entitled to their opinion and I have heard people moan about the Q400, but likewise I have heard many positive comments also...
Granted, it can be a little noisier than a jet depending on where in the cabin you sit and how well the NVS system is working (if not working correctly it is sometimes switched off until it is fixed).
As for the flight time, the difference is pretty insignificant. The block time from MAN to CDG is only 5 or 10 mins longer on the Q400 than the E195 and if a flight leaves on time it will often arrive on stand early at CDG (the schedule includes padding for slots etc.).
And remote stands - I cannot comment on whether this will be the case at T2 at CDG but while BE have been using T1, they do not park remotely and it is a short 20 second walk into the terminal building (except on the odd occasion where the aircraft has been parked at a satellite which is closed for refurb in which case a coach is needed - not the fault of the Q400).
Oh and large bags - those lockers are deceptively large and most trolly bags that aren't packed to bursting point will fit although the narrow opening can make it interesting trying to get the wheels in! But if they don't fit in the locker they will fit under the seat in front - and if they don't fit there, then they should never have made it into the cabin in the first place. Unfortunately, many passengers don't think that the cabin size requirements apply to them and their beloved bag and then complain when they get on board can't find a home for their bag
Oh and by the way, I am not a Q400 pilot
Flybe aren't really a "no-frills" airline - they have rather successfully placed themselves as an inbetween, neither full service nor no-frills, niche airline. They offer lounge access, a frequent flyer program, flexible tickets, interlining/connections and allocated seating etc. The only real difference between AF and BE is that there is no complimentary refreshments on board and there may be a charge for a checked in baggage.
However, it the responsibility of AF to inform passengers booking with them that the flight will be operated by BE and make them aware of the differences. Looking at AF's website it is not specific about meals (says meal info not available) and it says there is a 1 piece/23kg checked bag allowance with no mention of any charges. Of course, it may be that pax booked through AF will be provided with a meal voucher for use on board and a complimentary checked bag... I am sure this will have been considered by those involved in working these things out (at least I would hope so!).
As for the Q400... I agree everyone is entitled to their opinion and I have heard people moan about the Q400, but likewise I have heard many positive comments also...
Granted, it can be a little noisier than a jet depending on where in the cabin you sit and how well the NVS system is working (if not working correctly it is sometimes switched off until it is fixed).
As for the flight time, the difference is pretty insignificant. The block time from MAN to CDG is only 5 or 10 mins longer on the Q400 than the E195 and if a flight leaves on time it will often arrive on stand early at CDG (the schedule includes padding for slots etc.).
And remote stands - I cannot comment on whether this will be the case at T2 at CDG but while BE have been using T1, they do not park remotely and it is a short 20 second walk into the terminal building (except on the odd occasion where the aircraft has been parked at a satellite which is closed for refurb in which case a coach is needed - not the fault of the Q400).
Oh and large bags - those lockers are deceptively large and most trolly bags that aren't packed to bursting point will fit although the narrow opening can make it interesting trying to get the wheels in! But if they don't fit in the locker they will fit under the seat in front - and if they don't fit there, then they should never have made it into the cabin in the first place. Unfortunately, many passengers don't think that the cabin size requirements apply to them and their beloved bag and then complain when they get on board can't find a home for their bag
Oh and by the way, I am not a Q400 pilot
Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: Manchester, England
Posts: 612
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
A tale of two airports
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: Stockport
Age: 69
Posts: 1,037
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
As I understand it, it will be both on cargo and China Airlines on pax with a possibility of EVA
Nice to see more MD-11s, this will really give the cargo figures a boost
Now we are in good news mode how about a bit more, i`m sure it`s coming
Ian B
Nice to see more MD-11s, this will really give the cargo figures a boost
Now we are in good news mode how about a bit more, i`m sure it`s coming
Ian B
Last edited by Ian Brooks; 9th Oct 2010 at 12:16.
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: Stockport
Age: 69
Posts: 1,037
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Trying to get my head round all the possible terminal changes at present
At first it was mooted to be T3 for LCC now it looks mainly One World
and Sky Team Alliance, talk of Easy going to T2 which if they are going to continue expanding they will half fill T3 on their own.
Ian
At first it was mooted to be T3 for LCC now it looks mainly One World
and Sky Team Alliance, talk of Easy going to T2 which if they are going to continue expanding they will half fill T3 on their own.
Ian