MANCHESTER - 8
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VIRGIN HEATHROW
If I were Mag i would be very wary of Virgins Man Heathrow service.
What,as i think is very possible Virgin could pull the plug on their long range services from Man and feed the Heathrow hub. Why else would they use valuable slots at Heathrow.
What,as i think is very possible Virgin could pull the plug on their long range services from Man and feed the Heathrow hub. Why else would they use valuable slots at Heathrow.
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They won't pull the plug on MAN long haul. Most of it is leisure related and remains popular year-round. It's the other more lucrative destinations served at LHR by VS that the feed is needed for.
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Antwerp
AIRFRANCE by CityJet Cancels Antwerp – Manchester Service from mid-Sep 2012 | Airline Route – Worldwide Airline Route Updates
Is this old news?
With the above site you never know if it is new or old but often whether it is even correct. They seem to jump the gun sometimes and it is just time changes.
Last week they announced MAN-BRU by flybe was ending.....nearly two months after it was off sale.
Certainly not bookable on the Cityjet website in October
Pete
Is this old news?
With the above site you never know if it is new or old but often whether it is even correct. They seem to jump the gun sometimes and it is just time changes.
Last week they announced MAN-BRU by flybe was ending.....nearly two months after it was off sale.
Certainly not bookable on the Cityjet website in October
Pete
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Actually, VIR's new LHR-MAN service makes total sense. In the current tough economic climate the airline (like many others) is enduring painful losses. But it is very difficult for the company to pare back its exclusively long haul LHR portfolio without risking the loss of valuable slots under the 'use-them-or-lose-them' rules.
The launch of LHR-MAN using three daily slot pairs sourced from the in-house pool protects those slots for the long term. VIR can shelve three daily long-haul loss-makers until economic conditions improve. Those long haul services are much more expensive to run than a (very) short haul A319 service which at least contributes valuable traffic feed to support the bottom line in the meantime.
In due course, VIR have the flexibility to reallocate those slots to long haul services as economic conditions improve. And, if in the meantime VIR decides that LHR-MAN (and subsequent short haul ops) are sufficiently compelling, they can seek to build up their LHR slot portfolio to accommodate them for the long term. Certain routes (not MAN) should attract slot awards from the BAW pool under the terms of the BMI takeover.
Having a mix of short and long haul services does allow a carrier to limit losses under the LHR slot system by overweighting short flights (pseudo "slot-sitters") during tough times and long haul flights when the economy can support enhanced capacity. In the meantime, routes such as LHR-MAN provide feed to the long haul programme, contribute at least something to the bottom line, occupy must-use slots pending improved economic conditions, and protect the brand. It is a win-win for Virgin.
The launch of LHR-MAN using three daily slot pairs sourced from the in-house pool protects those slots for the long term. VIR can shelve three daily long-haul loss-makers until economic conditions improve. Those long haul services are much more expensive to run than a (very) short haul A319 service which at least contributes valuable traffic feed to support the bottom line in the meantime.
In due course, VIR have the flexibility to reallocate those slots to long haul services as economic conditions improve. And, if in the meantime VIR decides that LHR-MAN (and subsequent short haul ops) are sufficiently compelling, they can seek to build up their LHR slot portfolio to accommodate them for the long term. Certain routes (not MAN) should attract slot awards from the BAW pool under the terms of the BMI takeover.
Having a mix of short and long haul services does allow a carrier to limit losses under the LHR slot system by overweighting short flights (pseudo "slot-sitters") during tough times and long haul flights when the economy can support enhanced capacity. In the meantime, routes such as LHR-MAN provide feed to the long haul programme, contribute at least something to the bottom line, occupy must-use slots pending improved economic conditions, and protect the brand. It is a win-win for Virgin.
My understanding is that VS are taking back 3 slot pairs that are currently leased out. So, they are not reducing any current long haul services to accommodate shorthaul.
Oh yea, transfer T1 to T3 @ LHR to connect onwards ! great ! .. pass me the Emirates timetable...
Oh yea, transfer T1 to T3 @ LHR to connect onwards ! great ! .. pass me the Emirates timetable...
Last edited by Mr A Tis; 21st Aug 2012 at 15:01.
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Shed
Whilst I agree with you about the games that airlines play at LHR and other slot-constrained airports and that VS are using the slots for MAN from their own allocations, it would appear that they are hoping to get some of the "remedy" slots that BA are having to give up.
This comes from their press release
Sir Richard Branson’s airline is going to apply for all of the remedy slots being awarded by the European Commission following the IAG takeover of bmi, but is using some of its existing slots to service the Manchester to London route. The airline believes competition on this route has been neglected in the remedy process and aims to provide choice for the 650,000 passengers who travel between the two cities.
Manchester | Virgin Atlantic
VS are bidding for 12 pairs of slots - see here
Virgin Atlantic takes on BA on UK routes - Telegraph
and as I understand it hope to operate some LHR-Scotland flights, also starting in Spring 2013.
Suzeman
Whilst I agree with you about the games that airlines play at LHR and other slot-constrained airports and that VS are using the slots for MAN from their own allocations, it would appear that they are hoping to get some of the "remedy" slots that BA are having to give up.
This comes from their press release
Sir Richard Branson’s airline is going to apply for all of the remedy slots being awarded by the European Commission following the IAG takeover of bmi, but is using some of its existing slots to service the Manchester to London route. The airline believes competition on this route has been neglected in the remedy process and aims to provide choice for the 650,000 passengers who travel between the two cities.
Manchester | Virgin Atlantic
VS are bidding for 12 pairs of slots - see here
Virgin Atlantic takes on BA on UK routes - Telegraph
and as I understand it hope to operate some LHR-Scotland flights, also starting in Spring 2013.
Suzeman
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The VS MAN-LHR route will be operated from T3.
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Antwerp
AIRFRANCE by CityJet Cancels Antwerp – Manchester Service from mid-Sep 2012 | Airline Route – Worldwide Airline Route Updates
Is this old news?
With the above site you never know if it is new or old but often whether it is even correct. They seem to jump the gun sometimes and it is just time changes.
Last week they announced MAN-BRU by flybe was ending.....nearly two months after it was off sale.
Certainly not bookable on the Cityjet website in October
Pete
AIRFRANCE by CityJet Cancels Antwerp – Manchester Service from mid-Sep 2012 | Airline Route – Worldwide Airline Route Updates
Is this old news?
With the above site you never know if it is new or old but often whether it is even correct. They seem to jump the gun sometimes and it is just time changes.
Last week they announced MAN-BRU by flybe was ending.....nearly two months after it was off sale.
Certainly not bookable on the Cityjet website in October
Pete
Reality was that loads when i've been on it have been gash. 10 and 12 passengers last 2 flights.
Back to Schipol / Brussels
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Actually, VIR's new LHR-MAN service makes total sense
So MAN may get an uplift in passengers domestically, but exisiting hopes that VS might grow the operation beyond sun routes now look hopeless, and that's a shame.
Having said that, if it does work out then fair play to them for giving it a go.
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Buyers market
Track record of UK Independents or 'second force' carriers as they were once known, on Manchester -London routes.
BCAL (Gatwick) - bought out by BA in 1988
Dan Air ( Heathrow and Gatwick) - bought out by BA in 1991
bmi (Heathrow) - bought out by BA in 2012
Virgin Atlantic (Heathrow) - ??
BCAL (Gatwick) - bought out by BA in 1988
Dan Air ( Heathrow and Gatwick) - bought out by BA in 1991
bmi (Heathrow) - bought out by BA in 2012
Virgin Atlantic (Heathrow) - ??
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Hi Skipness -
I actually agree with you completely on this. But I would have been amazed to see VIR launch long-haul business routes from MAN under any foreseeable scenario; it has never really looked likely. I prefer to post what I (sadly) expect to see happen rather than what I would dearly like to see happen. No argument from me on this occasion!
Regards, Shed.
I actually agree with you completely on this. But I would have been amazed to see VIR launch long-haul business routes from MAN under any foreseeable scenario; it has never really looked likely. I prefer to post what I (sadly) expect to see happen rather than what I would dearly like to see happen. No argument from me on this occasion!
Regards, Shed.
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VS domestic
Quote: "(Just to re-open the can of worms) Perhaps SMB should have teamed up with SRB!"
Yes! Doesn't that seem a long time ago now! Ego clash wasn't it?
Quote: "My understanding is that VS are taking back 3 slot pairs that are currently leased out. So, they are not reducing any current long haul services to accommodate shorthaul.
Oh yea, transfer T1 to T3 @ LHR to connect onwards ! great ! .. pass me the Emirates timetable... "
Would be an easier version of BA's LHR1-LHR4 transfer, but suspect this has much to do with VS's move to the new LHR2.
Quote: "So looks like Virgin will be one of the only airlines at MAN to use two terminals, unless of course they move their International operations to T3 but I highly doubt that."
VS lonhaul at Ringway is point to point bucket and spade, BGI, MCO, etc. so it doesn't matter (from a pax point of view) if they're in 2 terminals. From a company duplication point of view, it may be a different matter.
Quote: "This comes from their press release
Sir Richard Branson’s airline is going to apply for all of the remedy slots being awarded by the European Commission following the IAG takeover of bmi, but is using some of its existing slots to service the Manchester to London route. The airline believes competition on this route has been neglected in the remedy process and aims to provide choice for the 650,000 passengers who travel between the two cities."
Could apply to GLA as well as MAN.
Yes! Doesn't that seem a long time ago now! Ego clash wasn't it?
Quote: "My understanding is that VS are taking back 3 slot pairs that are currently leased out. So, they are not reducing any current long haul services to accommodate shorthaul.
Oh yea, transfer T1 to T3 @ LHR to connect onwards ! great ! .. pass me the Emirates timetable... "
Would be an easier version of BA's LHR1-LHR4 transfer, but suspect this has much to do with VS's move to the new LHR2.
Quote: "So looks like Virgin will be one of the only airlines at MAN to use two terminals, unless of course they move their International operations to T3 but I highly doubt that."
VS lonhaul at Ringway is point to point bucket and spade, BGI, MCO, etc. so it doesn't matter (from a pax point of view) if they're in 2 terminals. From a company duplication point of view, it may be a different matter.
Quote: "This comes from their press release
Sir Richard Branson’s airline is going to apply for all of the remedy slots being awarded by the European Commission following the IAG takeover of bmi, but is using some of its existing slots to service the Manchester to London route. The airline believes competition on this route has been neglected in the remedy process and aims to provide choice for the 650,000 passengers who travel between the two cities."
Could apply to GLA as well as MAN.
Last edited by Fairdealfrank; 21st Aug 2012 at 23:45.
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The train is a ridiculous price and 4 trains/3 connection, no discounts on Virgin if you want to travel early in the morning.
Flying is expensive and return flights LGW-MAN are poor, latest is around 4pm departure which is too early if you have to do a days work at LGW.