DURHAM TEES VALLEY AIRPORT - 5
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Convinced
Skyman, I wonder if the ex airport staff at Sheffield are convinced by Peels motives 
Was the DTV south side land gifted to the Peel parent company before the Peel company sold most of their shares to VAS.
If it was gifted there probably wont be any details at Companies House?
If I'm correct in my understanding of the present share and land ownership, Peel will be still sitting on a very valuable plot of land (south side) if the airport shares are sold or they just lock the doors.
Its looking more like the Darlington FC fiasco, with shares here and there, a separate landlord, and not to mention the council!
Was the DTV south side land gifted to the Peel parent company before the Peel company sold most of their shares to VAS.
If it was gifted there probably wont be any details at Companies House?
If I'm correct in my understanding of the present share and land ownership, Peel will be still sitting on a very valuable plot of land (south side) if the airport shares are sold or they just lock the doors.
Its looking more like the Darlington FC fiasco, with shares here and there, a separate landlord, and not to mention the council!
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IMHO "gifting" of the land would be in law, a significant balance sheet event, and therefore reportable, and potentially a criminal offence if it wasn't. The tax implications of gifting company assets are huge.
Of interest is the fact that between y/e march 09 and march 10, the loss went from £3.9m to £37.9m, with a coincident reduction in tangible fixed asset of £32m. Anybody now what that was about ? (nb y/e March 11, loss was back to £1m bt.)
Of interest is the fact that between y/e march 09 and march 10, the loss went from £3.9m to £37.9m, with a coincident reduction in tangible fixed asset of £32m. Anybody now what that was about ? (nb y/e March 11, loss was back to £1m bt.)
Engage brain before opening mouth
MP calls for return of Teesside to Heathrow air route - Local News - News - Gazette Live
MP calls for return of Teesside to Heathrow air route - Local News - News - Gazette Live
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A Stronger North East!- Consider Durham Tees Valley Closure - Synergy
Consider: If Tees Valley Airport should close, which seems more & more likely (Especially for passenger services), wouldn't the best alternative be to provide better, faster and more comfortable surface links to Newcastle International Airport via Coach & Rail. In particular from the East of the region; Middlesbrough & Stockton are not presntly served well,(in terms of Comfort & Speed) although the cost in providing better rail rolling stock, interlining with the Metro to Newcastle Airport and regular Direct Airport Coach services, would be far less than those costs associated in attempting recue of a failing Teesside Airport. There may be further benefits in this approach, attracting more airlines services to the North East's wider region, with a larger catchment population.
Both Airports receive significant support from councils & development agencies - Surely concentrating all efforts and monies into Newcastle with better, low cost & convenient links to Teesside (only 42 miles-to Stockton) would better serve our whole region.
"Synergy - Defined as: Two or more things functioning together to produce a result not independently obtainable" - or 2+2=6!
– I’m Sure LBA will be only too ready to promote from the South of the region! (70 Miles Away)
Both Airports receive significant support from councils & development agencies - Surely concentrating all efforts and monies into Newcastle with better, low cost & convenient links to Teesside (only 42 miles-to Stockton) would better serve our whole region.
"Synergy - Defined as: Two or more things functioning together to produce a result not independently obtainable" - or 2+2=6!
– I’m Sure LBA will be only too ready to promote from the South of the region! (70 Miles Away)
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Government nail in the coffin for some airports.
Could this be the nail in the coffin for DTV and a few other regional aiports if it takes place?
Government shake-up could heap further gloom on regional airports (From The Northern Echo)
"With the new Bill and further regulations, are we ultimately getting to the stage where more regional airports will close because of the regulations that are coming down the line?"
The Bill will transfer the £5m annual cost for airport security from the department for transport (Dft) to airports and, ultimately, to air passengers.
Government shake-up could heap further gloom on regional airports (From The Northern Echo)
"With the new Bill and further regulations, are we ultimately getting to the stage where more regional airports will close because of the regulations that are coming down the line?"
The Bill will transfer the £5m annual cost for airport security from the department for transport (Dft) to airports and, ultimately, to air passengers.
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Hipennine
You are absolutely correct, "Northbound A1" take note
, & as such as said, IF there were a disposal by transfer to another entity, sale or otherwise it should show up in earlier years financial statements of DTVA Ltd.
Also -
From the above then the issue seems fairly clear, any land owned by DTVA at the time of the Peel acquisition still vests with DTVA, which is 75% owned by "Peel-VAS", though conveniently their shareholding may increase as & when the share dilution is completed. Thus on disposal of the assets of DTVA on a disposal / breakup, Peel would stand to gain a larger percentage of the proceeds of any assets sold. However as in any event the company is indebted through inter company loans etc. to the Peel group, then the local authorities will not receive any consideration from any disposal in any event
Northbound A1 you continue to be obsessed with Peel/Land on the south side, though I fail to see as to where you are going, other that to express your "sour grapes" that Peel has in a business sense put one over on the minority shareholders.
What you should really concern yourself about is to why & upon what terms that the local authorities agreed to sell 75% of DTVA to Peel in the first instance, without, as it appears, from what I can see, the necessary formal contractual arrangements in place to ensure that Peel actually "invested" £20M capital into the airport, rather than it appears to allow such sums, justifiable or not, to be set off against Peel Holdings ongoing losses, backed with presumably ?,the security of airport land. In such a situation then such land would pass to the Peel group of company's on any default triggered by say airport closure or whatever.
Unfortunately this is business, I really suggest that UNLESS you have some actual facts that you are prepared to publish on this forum, that support your concerns, then unfortunately there is no other issue to be addressed, save that the people of Teesside now find themselves presented with a scenario where they are likely to find themselves without the privilege of a local airport.
IMHO "gifting" of the land would be in law, a significant balance sheet event, and therefore reportable, and potentially a criminal offence if it wasn't. The tax implications of gifting company assets are huge.
, & as such as said, IF there were a disposal by transfer to another entity, sale or otherwise it should show up in earlier years financial statements of DTVA Ltd.Also -
Northbound A1 -If I'm correct in my understanding of the present share and land ownership, Peel will be still sitting on a very valuable plot of land (south side) if the airport shares are sold or they just lock the doors.
Northbound A1 you continue to be obsessed with Peel/Land on the south side, though I fail to see as to where you are going, other that to express your "sour grapes" that Peel has in a business sense put one over on the minority shareholders.
What you should really concern yourself about is to why & upon what terms that the local authorities agreed to sell 75% of DTVA to Peel in the first instance, without, as it appears, from what I can see, the necessary formal contractual arrangements in place to ensure that Peel actually "invested" £20M capital into the airport, rather than it appears to allow such sums, justifiable or not, to be set off against Peel Holdings ongoing losses, backed with presumably ?,the security of airport land. In such a situation then such land would pass to the Peel group of company's on any default triggered by say airport closure or whatever.
Unfortunately this is business, I really suggest that UNLESS you have some actual facts that you are prepared to publish on this forum, that support your concerns, then unfortunately there is no other issue to be addressed, save that the people of Teesside now find themselves presented with a scenario where they are likely to find themselves without the privilege of a local airport.
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Instead of being obsessed with mythical £20m and Peel etc perhaps, as Skyman alludes, you should wag the finger at the local authorities for an utter failure to operate in a commercial world and failure to adequately represent their constituents.
It's all a bit academic now so demanding enquiries and witch hunts isn't going to make an iota of difference to the fact that without PAX there are no flights and without flights there are no PAX, a self fulfilling prophecy which seems to be getting ever closer to becoming reality.
The big picture is there are too many airports chasing the market and tragically unless there is some serious re-invention DTV is going to be squashed by poor management, fate, the economy, competition and a multitude of other factors. Survival of the fittest....
It's all a bit academic now so demanding enquiries and witch hunts isn't going to make an iota of difference to the fact that without PAX there are no flights and without flights there are no PAX, a self fulfilling prophecy which seems to be getting ever closer to becoming reality.
The big picture is there are too many airports chasing the market and tragically unless there is some serious re-invention DTV is going to be squashed by poor management, fate, the economy, competition and a multitude of other factors. Survival of the fittest....
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The points are taken from what I've either heard or seen while stood looking at the cracked MME tarmac while airside.....thats the side of the fence you need a badge for
The only time I ever go near an airport is as a travelling passenger. I'd love to assume that there are some who have a "badge" that precludes the need to pass through various security checks, though the converstions I have had with the pilots I know clearly indicate that your "badge" counts for absolutely nothing in this sense, save the occasional "fast track" which you as habitual users are more than welcome
Unfortunately your badge won't even count for this privilege if DTVA closes, hopefully though you will have the relevant contacts & experience to relocate your flying career up the road or where ever. I am also very aware there are many not as fortunate who do not possess the mobility and oportunity to assist their employment chances.
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AMC:
Let's get this right. Local authorities don't operate in a commercial world. That's because...they're not commercial organisations! If you have a beef about "failure to operate in a commercial world" then surely it's with Peel - oh, unless you accept that DTVA is not a commercial operation and needs some other form of support.
Now you're getting somewhere. Putting the two things together, we now live in an Animal Farm world where "public sector bad, private sector good" and government prevents itself and other public authorities from being effective because it's determined that the profit motive is the only determinant of social usefulness. If you want a world like this, by all means vote for it. But don't delude yourselves that the provision and maintenance of airport infrastructure is a given in that dog-eat-dog world.
NS
you should wag the finger at the local authorities for an utter failure to operate in a commercial world
The big picture is there are too many airports chasing the market
NS
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well said Skyman, there are quite a number of people with "badges" who will find it very hard to get employment when Teesside Airport closes. Ive watched this thread for years and usually got rubbished when I ventured the view that Peel bought a 320 acre development site for £500K purely because they know that eventually there will be a nice fat profit turned when its covered with tin sheds, bricks and mortar whatever. It will happen, it was always the plan, long term maybe but the plan nevertheless. Im sorry for the employees they deserve better
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Internet works down here in the sandpit.
Parsnip has it one.
When they lock those sliding doors I can just see the various public figures spouting about how they tried to make Peel do the right thing but were powerless!
Certain individuals have made a quid or two out of it all by giving Peel the place for 500k
Even I doubt there will be another badge maker around when I need another mug shot taken at DTV.
No sign of the 2 interested buyers who were mentioned then?
Parsnip has it one.
When they lock those sliding doors I can just see the various public figures spouting about how they tried to make Peel do the right thing but were powerless!
Certain individuals have made a quid or two out of it all by giving Peel the place for 500k
Even I doubt there will be another badge maker around when I need another mug shot taken at DTV.
No sign of the 2 interested buyers who were mentioned then?
clock is still ticking..a summary
financil year figures will be available soon...usually march/april time? cant see any joy there ?
as said earlier no business in there right mind would want to take on a proven failing entity which is DTV.Why throw good money after. bad.
the infrastucture is too far gone.Runway is in need of attention,taxyways inneed of attention.New rules re security and payments.No airlines prepared to take any risks.No or little will to provide incentives to start up airlines and lets face it no passengers!!
it can only survive 9-5 privately with no passenger expense.At least the region would have some employment.
its really no big deal to have no passenger services..pleanty of other cities/towns are in the same boat..lets face it . Leeds/manchester and newcastle can easily support the 190K passengers.Would the teesseide area actually miss it..all it is bringing is bad publicity to an area which needs it like a hole in the tees.
as said earlier no business in there right mind would want to take on a proven failing entity which is DTV.Why throw good money after. bad.
the infrastucture is too far gone.Runway is in need of attention,taxyways inneed of attention.New rules re security and payments.No airlines prepared to take any risks.No or little will to provide incentives to start up airlines and lets face it no passengers!!
it can only survive 9-5 privately with no passenger expense.At least the region would have some employment.
its really no big deal to have no passenger services..pleanty of other cities/towns are in the same boat..lets face it . Leeds/manchester and newcastle can easily support the 190K passengers.Would the teesseide area actually miss it..all it is bringing is bad publicity to an area which needs it like a hole in the tees.
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Maybe the council’s big mistake was actually selling the airport. At Luton the airport is still owned by the council but is leased as a concession and is run by a Spanish company. That company has to invest in the airport so it is win win for the council as someone else spends the money and the council cream off a fee for each passenger that investment attracts. If that was done instead of selling it Teeside could be a different place today.
By selling Tee-side the council have now lost control and an asset for the area which could be lost forever. Could they not see the value of the land? £500,000 for that much land could make Peel a fortune if sold for development.
By selling Tee-side the council have now lost control and an asset for the area which could be lost forever. Could they not see the value of the land? £500,000 for that much land could make Peel a fortune if sold for development.
Is the Luton example that great, I thought I'd read on the LTN thread that development there is somewhat blighted because of the uncertainty as the end of the lease approaches?
And what makes the land at DTVA so precious if there is no airport - as I've stated before, is Teesside short of brownfield development sites? I would have thought any developer would prefer to have the airport there as a lever to use with the LA's in terms of getting planning permission etc etc ('We need to develop the land to subsidise the loss making airport')
And what makes the land at DTVA so precious if there is no airport - as I've stated before, is Teesside short of brownfield development sites? I would have thought any developer would prefer to have the airport there as a lever to use with the LA's in terms of getting planning permission etc etc ('We need to develop the land to subsidise the loss making airport')
Council chiefs accuse airport owners of broken promises (From The Northern Echo)
Interesting article that includes this phrase:
Interesting article that includes this phrase:
Peel Airports bosses are expected to decide in days whether to continue offering the business for sale or to call in administrators
DTV and Administration ?
another slant...what would happen then? does business continue as normal or does the CAA PUT restrictions on?
What about insurance..public liability etc?
what do klm/eastern do? what do cobham/frl do? me thinks its off to bournemouth again.
with the cold weather forecast will dtv deice or snow clear? me thinks not.
do the locks go on the doors? Its Darlo all over again,the end is finally nigh?
What about insurance..public liability etc?
what do klm/eastern do? what do cobham/frl do? me thinks its off to bournemouth again.
with the cold weather forecast will dtv deice or snow clear? me thinks not.
do the locks go on the doors? Its Darlo all over again,the end is finally nigh?
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Think Coventry!!! No airfield licence holder - CAA NOTAM's the place closed and nothing can arrive or depart.
If the Administrators are called in, it saves Peel paying redundancy money to the staff and any clauses in any contracts are null and void.
If the Administrators are called in, it saves Peel paying redundancy money to the staff and any clauses in any contracts are null and void.