NEWCASTLE - 8
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Separate from that, I was watching BBC news on iPlayer and the local news after was the London version and their lead story was about the men taken off the plane at NCL for being "drunk and disorderly".
The opinion of the other passengers was along the lines of "oh no they weren't".
The opinion of the other passengers was along the lines of "oh no they weren't".
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I don't think 55% load factors from one of the poorest areas of the country, which has higher than average fares on most flights and has only operated 5x weekly (sometimes) for less than 2.5 months (at the end of July) is THAT bad... Really... As you say whether it's enough to bring it back for 2016, I don't know, but I hope so.
What I would hope is that they take this year's figures as being a success (all things considered - the market they've entered) and try "properly" next year, x5 weekly or even daily March-October, serving the full summer season. If they can get up to or very near to 70% LF's then I'd hope they might go year round with maybe x4 weekly in winter. I just hope the disappointing reliability from this summer hasn't had a detrimental effect on customer loyalty.
This route was NEVER going to be a cash cow after a half hearted 4 month "summer" season, but there is nothing to say UA haven't made money on these flights, some were very expensive!
I know it's kind of unrelated but I feel that in the long run, if UA stick it out like EK did for 5+ years, that a LH connection to FRA could help boost loads as it could increase star presence and loyalty at NCL and make more people choose UA. I know it's difficult anyway because UA aren't at all the best transatlantic option and many simply won't pick them but... Every little helps. I'm sure they can make it worse but they might have to be prepared to wait a few years... Which unfortunately the US airlines can't/won't do and it's a real shame. I think we've all come to terms with the fact that Emirates do make money from Newcastle and I for one am VERY glad they didn't pull out on us.
Just hope we don't lose united, we probably wouldn't see them back until they get their hands on a 757MAX (never, so far). Delta... Forget it. American, maybe? Oneworld is a definite advantage but would they try it?
What I would hope is that they take this year's figures as being a success (all things considered - the market they've entered) and try "properly" next year, x5 weekly or even daily March-October, serving the full summer season. If they can get up to or very near to 70% LF's then I'd hope they might go year round with maybe x4 weekly in winter. I just hope the disappointing reliability from this summer hasn't had a detrimental effect on customer loyalty.
This route was NEVER going to be a cash cow after a half hearted 4 month "summer" season, but there is nothing to say UA haven't made money on these flights, some were very expensive!
I know it's kind of unrelated but I feel that in the long run, if UA stick it out like EK did for 5+ years, that a LH connection to FRA could help boost loads as it could increase star presence and loyalty at NCL and make more people choose UA. I know it's difficult anyway because UA aren't at all the best transatlantic option and many simply won't pick them but... Every little helps. I'm sure they can make it worse but they might have to be prepared to wait a few years... Which unfortunately the US airlines can't/won't do and it's a real shame. I think we've all come to terms with the fact that Emirates do make money from Newcastle and I for one am VERY glad they didn't pull out on us.
Just hope we don't lose united, we probably wouldn't see them back until they get their hands on a 757MAX (never, so far). Delta... Forget it. American, maybe? Oneworld is a definite advantage but would they try it?
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Just hope we don't lose united, we probably wouldn't see them back until they get their hands on a 757MAX (never, so far). Delta... Forget it. American, maybe? Oneworld is a definite advantage but would they try it?
More so the case with American. They have a very cosy feed from the regions with BA on Oneworld (as is the case in favour of AA feeds in the US) - Also at Medium to High pricing, but often still lower than fares for UA direct from NCL this year
United was and probably is the best of a bad choice of US airlines feeding NCL direct, but prices would need to be a lot more competitive than this year, when compared to AF/KLM/DL, to acheive high volume loads.
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I see that BE have decided to continue to operate STN on a weekday daily basis.
Flybe extend Newcastle to London Stansted service
Interestingly the article says it will be operated by BE's franchise partner Loganair. Using a ER4, I am guessing this aircraft is the one used to operate BM's BRU service.
BE6881 NCL 11:00 STN 12:15 ER4 x67
BE6882 STN 12:45 NCL 14:00 ER4 x67
Flybe extend Newcastle to London Stansted service
Interestingly the article says it will be operated by BE's franchise partner Loganair. Using a ER4, I am guessing this aircraft is the one used to operate BM's BRU service.
BE6881 NCL 11:00 STN 12:15 ER4 x67
BE6882 STN 12:45 NCL 14:00 ER4 x67
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As reported numerous times in this thread already it's the based BM 145 which will operate the flight.
Yesterday's fiasco seems very odd, either lots of passengers are lying and the group really were drunk or FlyBe are hiding something. How can the captain decide it was unsafe to fly after offloading all the passengers because one was in the loo? Also why was another aircraft needed to operate the flight if there was nothing wrong with the original one? Answers on a postcard please!
Yesterday's fiasco seems very odd, either lots of passengers are lying and the group really were drunk or FlyBe are hiding something. How can the captain decide it was unsafe to fly after offloading all the passengers because one was in the loo? Also why was another aircraft needed to operate the flight if there was nothing wrong with the original one? Answers on a postcard please!
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The replacement aircraft could due to the crew running out of FDP meaning a replacement had to be brought in to operate the sectors. Maybe a crew member did not feel fit to operate and being on a W pattern away from a base it is not easy to just replace one crew. I'm sure it'll be something along those lines.
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VentureGo, yes they would have to be lower prices for higher volume loads, but maybe that's not what United are after? If they can charge premium fares, fill it 60% and make a comfortable profit they might not be bothered about 90+% load factors.
If they continue that and drop prices slowly, letting the aircraft start to fill on the premium prices first until they know they can fill it nicely then start offering discounts to (HOPEFULLY!!!) fill a daily year round flight... It could work out very nicely for them... That's what Emirates did, I remember when prices were routinely well over £500/600 return and now you can bag them for less than £350
I agree that UA is the best of a bad choice, DL and AA could probably be just as successful and still make money for themselves, but this is one of the slight downsides of the alliances, they can't make AS MUCH money as funneling a good amount of AF/KL's uk passengers onto DL transatlantic flights (or BA-AA as the case may be). UA know what they're doing, they have plenty of experience and those 757's are great (when they work) but some of their fares are too expensive for North East leisure travelers.
If we were to lose United (I don't think we will) I'd say Emirates, Thomas Cook or Jet2 would be our best options. Failing that, Icelandair to KEF with an Air Iceland Q400... We will see what happens after 7th September
If they continue that and drop prices slowly, letting the aircraft start to fill on the premium prices first until they know they can fill it nicely then start offering discounts to (HOPEFULLY!!!) fill a daily year round flight... It could work out very nicely for them... That's what Emirates did, I remember when prices were routinely well over £500/600 return and now you can bag them for less than £350
I agree that UA is the best of a bad choice, DL and AA could probably be just as successful and still make money for themselves, but this is one of the slight downsides of the alliances, they can't make AS MUCH money as funneling a good amount of AF/KL's uk passengers onto DL transatlantic flights (or BA-AA as the case may be). UA know what they're doing, they have plenty of experience and those 757's are great (when they work) but some of their fares are too expensive for North East leisure travelers.
If we were to lose United (I don't think we will) I'd say Emirates, Thomas Cook or Jet2 would be our best options. Failing that, Icelandair to KEF with an Air Iceland Q400... We will see what happens after 7th September
I'd say Emirates, Thomas Cook or Jet2 would be our best options
Being serious, Jet2 and Thomas Cook can't offer the frequency/onward connections to be any good other than for leisure, and why would anybody give Emirates the rights?
Icelandair to KEF with an Air Iceland Q400
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I don't think 55% load factors from one of the poorest areas of the country, which has higher than average fares on most flights and has only operated 5x weekly (sometimes) for less than 2.5 months (at the end of July) is THAT bad... Really...
55% in peak season is, to be blunt, lamentable.
It really is THAT bad... Really...
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SWBKCB, Jet2 are the most sensical one I think, and if they ever manage to get any 767's or A330's the might actually give it a go. Although they could do it with the 757's and there may even be a business case for it I just don't think they will.
Thomas Cook... x2/x3 weekly A330, with regards to low cost O&D I reckon it could have a chance. If they set up an agreement with an airline at JFK (Jetblue?) they could probably support about a x5 weekly A330 in the summer at least.
Emirates... Why wouldn't they give them the rights? If I'm not mistaken they may actually already have most of the required rights (UAE-EU/EU-USA/UAE-USA open skies agreements). The only opposition would probably be the US3, but if United canned us then how would they have a leg to stand on? Apart from blaming the ME3. With their plethora of connections at JFK I think Emirates is the best option we have... They did Dubai, why can't they do it again?
They're all long shots, but for now we have United, I'm happy with that, I'm confident they'll be here next year and I hope I get a chance to sample them... As I mentioned before I just hope the schedule next year is slightly more comprehensive, late May - early September seems decidedly half arsed
Regarding Air Iceland, that actually wasn't a joke hahaha, I know what I said on the ABZ thread but I know the Q400 is a much more capable aircraft than that, it still has a lot more of it's useful range to play with on ABZ-KEF. For us I think it could be our best bet at a KEF service, I can't see Easyjet doing it, nothing been hinted at by Jet2... Thomson? Winter only charters, maybe... I'll be keeping my fingers crossed that this new Icelandair initiative works out well for Newcastle, a 757 would have been too big but the Dash is a good size!
Thomas Cook... x2/x3 weekly A330, with regards to low cost O&D I reckon it could have a chance. If they set up an agreement with an airline at JFK (Jetblue?) they could probably support about a x5 weekly A330 in the summer at least.
Emirates... Why wouldn't they give them the rights? If I'm not mistaken they may actually already have most of the required rights (UAE-EU/EU-USA/UAE-USA open skies agreements). The only opposition would probably be the US3, but if United canned us then how would they have a leg to stand on? Apart from blaming the ME3. With their plethora of connections at JFK I think Emirates is the best option we have... They did Dubai, why can't they do it again?
They're all long shots, but for now we have United, I'm happy with that, I'm confident they'll be here next year and I hope I get a chance to sample them... As I mentioned before I just hope the schedule next year is slightly more comprehensive, late May - early September seems decidedly half arsed
Regarding Air Iceland, that actually wasn't a joke hahaha, I know what I said on the ABZ thread but I know the Q400 is a much more capable aircraft than that, it still has a lot more of it's useful range to play with on ABZ-KEF. For us I think it could be our best bet at a KEF service, I can't see Easyjet doing it, nothing been hinted at by Jet2... Thomson? Winter only charters, maybe... I'll be keeping my fingers crossed that this new Icelandair initiative works out well for Newcastle, a 757 would have been too big but the Dash is a good size!
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No matter how many times you talk about Jet2 getting 767s, they have made it clear that their business model is not long haul. Why do people constantly talk about things without even a speck of evidence!
Newcastle is not a place which airlines are willing to throw long haul aircraft at - we should be looking more at Euro expansion.
Newcastle is not a place which airlines are willing to throw long haul aircraft at - we should be looking more at Euro expansion.
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EK77WNCL,
Thomas Cook have cautiously built their hub at the much larger operational base of Manchester, with JFK in particular starting up at 3 weekly and going 6 weekly next year, yet, you expect TCX to jump into NCL with a 5 weekly A330?
That's exactly what you need when you struggle to fill a B757 with soft fares and onward connections in peak season, an aircraft with double the capacity and reliant purely on O&D traffic!
Thomas Cook have cautiously built their hub at the much larger operational base of Manchester, with JFK in particular starting up at 3 weekly and going 6 weekly next year, yet, you expect TCX to jump into NCL with a 5 weekly A330?
That's exactly what you need when you struggle to fill a B757 with soft fares and onward connections in peak season, an aircraft with double the capacity and reliant purely on O&D traffic!
Emirates... Why wouldn't they give them the rights? If I'm not mistaken they may actually already have most of the required rights (UAE-EU/EU-USA/UAE-USA open skies agreements).
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Sorry but no way anyone would of expected a big list of standbys & a 757 100% full everyday for NCL - EWR. Todays flight was full and there have still been some good loads lately so the PAX are there to be had there is no excuse of people arent here. If it returns then i really think the advertisment needs to be better , Billboards in the city centre and out into northumberland / south into Durham etc could easily be plastered in United adverts to gain maximum regional exposure.
About other topics
TCX - No chance of long haul here im afraid as said they are making MAN their main long haul hub , What can be done though is pushing TCX to bring more seats or more destinations
J2 - Another 738 next year so visual expanding ever so slightly , Never will be a long haul airline other than the one off flights in Winter
TOM - Extra flights to CUN next year and IMO our best channel for long haul expansion in the future
EK - Prime example of how an established long haul airline can grow from a regional airport given time , Will now almost certainly IMO be maybe a year or two from a 2nd Daily
About other topics
TCX - No chance of long haul here im afraid as said they are making MAN their main long haul hub , What can be done though is pushing TCX to bring more seats or more destinations
J2 - Another 738 next year so visual expanding ever so slightly , Never will be a long haul airline other than the one off flights in Winter
TOM - Extra flights to CUN next year and IMO our best channel for long haul expansion in the future
EK - Prime example of how an established long haul airline can grow from a regional airport given time , Will now almost certainly IMO be maybe a year or two from a 2nd Daily
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There has been loads of advertising for this route... Front pages of local newspapers, regional TV news programmes, the airport have really pushed it regularly through the local trade who have all tried to give it as big a push as possible.
The top and bottom of it is, is that you need the people in the front seats ie business travellers to use it and if they cannot get a regular service and all ready have loyalty to other airlines / alliances who have multiple connections and more importantly regular flights daily, why should they start to shift to United when they don't even know if the flight will return next summer?
It would be great to see the flight daily and year round for business pax, but if the demand or yield is not there, they will move the 757 to where they can make money (as we saw with it moving to EDI last week during the festival). Emirates works well as it has slowly grown, but it has the cargo to help it out which is a huge help economically.
The top and bottom of it is, is that you need the people in the front seats ie business travellers to use it and if they cannot get a regular service and all ready have loyalty to other airlines / alliances who have multiple connections and more importantly regular flights daily, why should they start to shift to United when they don't even know if the flight will return next summer?
It would be great to see the flight daily and year round for business pax, but if the demand or yield is not there, they will move the 757 to where they can make money (as we saw with it moving to EDI last week during the festival). Emirates works well as it has slowly grown, but it has the cargo to help it out which is a huge help economically.
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Originally Posted by LiamNCL
Todays flight was full
LF 74%
Of the 16 BF seats, 11 were taken, 8 were upgrades.
Economy Plus was almost empty.
This illustrates the problem with the route; it is back filling the 'cheap' seats in Economy, but the premium and J seats are often, stress often not always, either going out empty or are being filled by free upgrades.
On the plus side, it does reflect that there are Premier travellers to have that number of upgrades.
For completeness, the 159 went back with 165 / 169, 2 empty in BF and 2 in Y+.