NEWCASTLE - 8
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jamie2k9 - The NI assembly had to ask Westminster for special dispensation on APD as United had already announced they were pulling New York. They received this however Newcastle will not get such help.
I have worked on this issue for sometime and I can assure you that some folks working in the NE Aviation sector are getting more worried as the pole gap on the possibility of Scottish Independence narrows
I have worked on this issue for sometime and I can assure you that some folks working in the NE Aviation sector are getting more worried as the pole gap on the possibility of Scottish Independence narrows
Last edited by ncleflights; 15th Nov 2012 at 22:36.
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jamie2k9 - you already answered your own question. Those long haul routes that Belfast lost the passenger numbers increased on the corresponding flights to those destinations from Dublin
The NI assembly had to ask Westminster for special dispensation on APD as they were United had already announced they were pulling New York. They received this however Newcastle will not get such help.
I have worked on this issue for sometime and I can assure you that their are some very worried folks in the NE Aviation sector
The NI assembly had to ask Westminster for special dispensation on APD as they were United had already announced they were pulling New York. They received this however Newcastle will not get such help.
I have worked on this issue for sometime and I can assure you that their are some very worried folks in the NE Aviation sector
APD dropped in NI will have zero benefit to the region as no new US carrier will launch a route form BFS to the US or Canada they will go where they can make money and have access to a wider market and can be accessed easier for everybody and that is DUB. All major cities and towns in Ireland now have 24/7 bus service and a motorway to the airprot from most areas the airport can be accessed around 3h and this is why airlines will pick DUB.
BTW Aer Lingus cut there own MCO service from DUB last year and that shows the state of the leisure market....
Last edited by Jamie2k9; 15th Nov 2012 at 23:37.
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"First Edinburgh airport is about to get easier to get to for NE travellers, next year the first tram route opens from Princess Street straight to the airport. This effectively means you could get off the train at Edinburgh cross the road and get the tram to the airport." - have you attempted to find a vacant parking space at any of the key East Coast Stations in NE England recently (and if you find a space, being able to afford the car parking fee)? A fairly strong disincentive to the rail option, even before lugging baggage from Waverley up the hill to Princess Street, followed by a crowded long tram ride.
"Finally the airlines would have to pass on the savings with the scrapping of APD. If you read the draft policy document produced by a future Independent Scotland you'll find that the new government will fine airlines that don't! "
Well it will be interesting to see how an independent Scottish admin survives if they effectively start placing caps on the profit margin that a business can generate.
"Evidence of this already exists remember the easyjet expansion went into reverse at Newcastle when they opened a competing base at Edinburgh."
EZY expansion went into reverse when Jet2 set up camp in NCL, and provided competition, and arguably that's why EDI then became a more profitable base.
"Finally the airlines would have to pass on the savings with the scrapping of APD. If you read the draft policy document produced by a future Independent Scotland you'll find that the new government will fine airlines that don't! "
Well it will be interesting to see how an independent Scottish admin survives if they effectively start placing caps on the profit margin that a business can generate.
"Evidence of this already exists remember the easyjet expansion went into reverse at Newcastle when they opened a competing base at Edinburgh."
EZY expansion went into reverse when Jet2 set up camp in NCL, and provided competition, and arguably that's why EDI then became a more profitable base.
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Scottish APD, will never happen, because when Salmond has to actually balance the books with all his promises the perverbial will hit the fan.
He is so far extended on his overdraft he will lose all veto. They cannot raise their own tax from the current taxtion without a large handout from the UK, and do you think the rest of the UK will be happy to subsidise a tax cut north of the border which affects everyone beneath it.
Everything that is a popular headline grabbing tax policy is promised. But as with him it is all hot air. It will never happen.
He is so far extended on his overdraft he will lose all veto. They cannot raise their own tax from the current taxtion without a large handout from the UK, and do you think the rest of the UK will be happy to subsidise a tax cut north of the border which affects everyone beneath it.
Everything that is a popular headline grabbing tax policy is promised. But as with him it is all hot air. It will never happen.
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APD - Let's get real!
APD affects ALL UK Airports - and Especially Regional International Airports like Newcastle - If Edinburgh acheived advantage on APD over NCL then it Would affect Long Distance Services adverseley from Newcastle.
Salmond is a prolific ( definition: . "producing constant or successful results") Scottish political leader and will vigourously pursue all policies to give all Scotland policies an advantage over other Europen states, incuding the UK. Scotland has a population of over 5million (More than the Republic of Ireland) and much more wealth in terms of natural resources - Oil, Gas, Whisky. etc... ) - So don't be premature re. Salmond's early departure from politics!
Newcastle need to secure Long Distance routes to USA and beyond without punitive APD. So... Align with Scotland to resist APD (or at least revolt if Scotland achieve an unfair competitive advantage in their Airports "just over the border")
Salmond is a prolific ( definition: . "producing constant or successful results") Scottish political leader and will vigourously pursue all policies to give all Scotland policies an advantage over other Europen states, incuding the UK. Scotland has a population of over 5million (More than the Republic of Ireland) and much more wealth in terms of natural resources - Oil, Gas, Whisky. etc... ) - So don't be premature re. Salmond's early departure from politics!
Newcastle need to secure Long Distance routes to USA and beyond without punitive APD. So... Align with Scotland to resist APD (or at least revolt if Scotland achieve an unfair competitive advantage in their Airports "just over the border")
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Quote: "Salmond is a prolific ( definition: . "producing constant or successful results") Scottish political leader and will vigourously pursue all policies to give all Scotland policies an advantage over other Europen states, incuding the UK. Scotland has a population of over 5million (More than the Republic of Ireland) and much more wealth in terms of natural resources - Oil, Gas, Whisky. etc... ) - So don't be premature re. Salmond's early departure from politics!"
Indeed, "wee 'Eck" is one of the shrewdest politicians in the UK. So much so, that his party, the SNP, is a one man band.
Alec Salmond was leader before, then he quit, and was replaced by the rlatively uncharasmatic John Swinney, and at that time, the SNP's popularity sunk like a stone. Then they brought Salmond back as leader and the rest is history.
Definitely not a man to be underestimated. Despite this, whether he has the ability to wreck the UK is a moot point. There is no room for complacancy, the unionists of all parties will have to up their game.
Indeed, "wee 'Eck" is one of the shrewdest politicians in the UK. So much so, that his party, the SNP, is a one man band.
Alec Salmond was leader before, then he quit, and was replaced by the rlatively uncharasmatic John Swinney, and at that time, the SNP's popularity sunk like a stone. Then they brought Salmond back as leader and the rest is history.
Definitely not a man to be underestimated. Despite this, whether he has the ability to wreck the UK is a moot point. There is no room for complacancy, the unionists of all parties will have to up their game.
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I don't particularly buy this argument that a low/no APD at EDI will have a serious effect on NCL long distance. The paying punter is only interested in the total amount of money the fare (or whole trip if they are a bit more sophisticated) will cost. If just cost, and not the convenience of flying from the local airport is not a critical part of the selection process, NCL would have nearly no long distance pax. Whenever I'm off anywhere, and the cost is coming out of my pocket, I always look at fares ex MAN and LHR (as a minimum) as well as NCL, and most of the time, the cost ex LHR is way less than NCL (I mean even after taking into account the travel by car or train and potential hotel associated with LHR), such that sometimes it is definitely worth the aggro - the fare differentials can be way more than the value of the total APD.
Similarly with short haul, the premium you can pay for flying from NCL vs LS or MAN or EMA (and especially LTN,or STN or BRS) if you are prepared to travel a bit on the motorway would suggest that if this was a consideration, NCL would have no traffic at all. I just don't see how some cheaper net fares ex EDI will outweigh the pedestrian traipse over the single carriageway speed camera alleys of the A68 or A1, and then round the Edinburgh by-pass (remember that many people on here complain about the relative inaccesibility of NCL from south of the Tyne because of the western bypass!). Nor the cost of ECML train fares at peak periods (unless Salmand is going to subsidise those as well !).
Similarly with short haul, the premium you can pay for flying from NCL vs LS or MAN or EMA (and especially LTN,or STN or BRS) if you are prepared to travel a bit on the motorway would suggest that if this was a consideration, NCL would have no traffic at all. I just don't see how some cheaper net fares ex EDI will outweigh the pedestrian traipse over the single carriageway speed camera alleys of the A68 or A1, and then round the Edinburgh by-pass (remember that many people on here complain about the relative inaccesibility of NCL from south of the Tyne because of the western bypass!). Nor the cost of ECML train fares at peak periods (unless Salmand is going to subsidise those as well !).
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I very much doubt that Salmond would change APD significantly in an independent Scotland as like the UK government he needs the revenue. He's more likely to change APD if the power is devolved to the Scottish government but it is not going to have a massive effect on Newcastle and APD would probably go back up after the independence referendum.
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On a different subject, anyone noticed the sky high prices being charged by EasyJet and Jet2 from NCL lately to Spain. £250 return seems to be the new norm. Xmas flights now over £400+ return for many dates and that is before the add ons.
I booked one way tickets with Ryanair and Jet2 back to UK in September. Had to pay in euros. When checking my statement weeks later I was horrified to learn that Jet2 €/£ conversion was a paltry 1.09. At the time, GBP was worth around 1.25 euros. Even Ryanair rate was a fair 1.22 euros.
Ryanair gets such bad press but Jet2 are driving pax away with their greed. It is bad enough having to pay ridiculously expensive fees for baggage, negotiate around the hard sell for allocated seats (which I reckon 70% of pax fall for), then the extortionate credit card fees and that is before the final rip off on the exchange rate if booking one way inbound seat. I rang their call centre (on an 0870 number) to tell them of the sour taste I feel every time I book with them - I honestly feel as if I have been mugged when booking flights with them.
I fully understand that they cannot fly at a loss but why do they have to be so underhand? To me it looks like pax are now voting with their feet hence big capacity cuts to Spain. If they were more transparent, perhaps they would stimulate demand again.
I booked one way tickets with Ryanair and Jet2 back to UK in September. Had to pay in euros. When checking my statement weeks later I was horrified to learn that Jet2 €/£ conversion was a paltry 1.09. At the time, GBP was worth around 1.25 euros. Even Ryanair rate was a fair 1.22 euros.
Ryanair gets such bad press but Jet2 are driving pax away with their greed. It is bad enough having to pay ridiculously expensive fees for baggage, negotiate around the hard sell for allocated seats (which I reckon 70% of pax fall for), then the extortionate credit card fees and that is before the final rip off on the exchange rate if booking one way inbound seat. I rang their call centre (on an 0870 number) to tell them of the sour taste I feel every time I book with them - I honestly feel as if I have been mugged when booking flights with them.
I fully understand that they cannot fly at a loss but why do they have to be so underhand? To me it looks like pax are now voting with their feet hence big capacity cuts to Spain. If they were more transparent, perhaps they would stimulate demand again.
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Chris1001
Just curious about capacity cuts to spain ??
There are however some cuts again to LHR. Currently one rotation per day down to 5 for some of Nov and January. I believe in mid Jan on Mon and Tue its down to just 4 rotations.
A return departing tommorrow morning returning Wed evening is about £545 (lowest available fare) so the capacity cuts are certainly increasing the LHR fares.
LGW is also down to 2 per day on Mon and Tuesdays. Is this route going to continue ? I am sure if it was upgraded to jet equipment the pax nos would increase. Currently they seem to be falling at an alarming rate.
Just curious about capacity cuts to spain ??
There are however some cuts again to LHR. Currently one rotation per day down to 5 for some of Nov and January. I believe in mid Jan on Mon and Tue its down to just 4 rotations.
A return departing tommorrow morning returning Wed evening is about £545 (lowest available fare) so the capacity cuts are certainly increasing the LHR fares.
LGW is also down to 2 per day on Mon and Tuesdays. Is this route going to continue ? I am sure if it was upgraded to jet equipment the pax nos would increase. Currently they seem to be falling at an alarming rate.
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Quote: "What is your point? ! - Low APD would be beneficial to all including the economy!"
Agreed,VentureGo, and stated as much in post #3,287. My words in that post were:
"Differential APD is not a good idea, very low flat rate APD, or better still, no APD is."
So we are at one on this!
Agreed,VentureGo, and stated as much in post #3,287. My words in that post were:
"Differential APD is not a good idea, very low flat rate APD, or better still, no APD is."
So we are at one on this!
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Chris,
Saw your post and stirred my curiosity.
I'm not sure what the scoop is on exchange rates and perhaps others will know more. I know that Jet2 let me pay with debit cards for free whilst Ryanair require me to have either a Mastercard Cash Passport or guess what a pre-paid Ryanair Card.
Let's compare....
Jet2 booking fee NIL
Ryanair Booking Fee - £6
Jet2 Airport Check In - NIL
Ryanair Airport Check In - £60
Jet2 Booked Seat - £5.99
Ryainair Reserved Seating - £10.00
Jet2 Sports Equipment - £25
Ryanair Sports Equipment - £50
Jet2 2 Bags Fee - £32.98
Ryanair 2 Bags Fee - £50 - £90
It seems like you've maybe had a bad day but when I booked with Jet2 I simply clicked "Continue" to avoid any seat charges and they are considerably cheaper than Ryanair (your example I have not beef either way). All airlines try to upsell. I just booked a trip with BA who try to sell me hotels, insurance, booked seat costs etc too, so nothing new there.
Not sure why you picked up on Jet2 being "greedy" but doesn't really stack up compared to the the rest of the carriers.
Saw your post and stirred my curiosity.
I'm not sure what the scoop is on exchange rates and perhaps others will know more. I know that Jet2 let me pay with debit cards for free whilst Ryanair require me to have either a Mastercard Cash Passport or guess what a pre-paid Ryanair Card.
Ryanair gets such bad press but Jet2 are driving pax away with their greed.
It is bad enough having to pay ridiculously expensive fees for baggage, negotiate around the hard sell for allocated seats (which I reckon 70% of pax fall for), then the extortionate credit card fees
Ryanair Booking Fee - £6
Jet2 Airport Check In - NIL
Ryanair Airport Check In - £60
Jet2 Booked Seat - £5.99
Ryainair Reserved Seating - £10.00
Jet2 Sports Equipment - £25
Ryanair Sports Equipment - £50
Jet2 2 Bags Fee - £32.98
Ryanair 2 Bags Fee - £50 - £90
It seems like you've maybe had a bad day but when I booked with Jet2 I simply clicked "Continue" to avoid any seat charges and they are considerably cheaper than Ryanair (your example I have not beef either way). All airlines try to upsell. I just booked a trip with BA who try to sell me hotels, insurance, booked seat costs etc too, so nothing new there.
Not sure why you picked up on Jet2 being "greedy" but doesn't really stack up compared to the the rest of the carriers.
Last edited by andrewmcharlton; 27th Nov 2012 at 08:49. Reason: Spelling
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Not quite true that airport check-in is free with Jet2. It's £9 extra with hand luggage. Maybe you are confusing Jet2 with easyJet. It also annoys me that if you have hold luggage there is no free way of checking in with Jet2. However, I do agree with the general thrust that Ryanair's extra charges are worse. With Jet2 you can take a full-size cabin bag on board without paying anything more than the headline price. That's certainly not the case with O'Leary's mob, nor, because of the booking fee, easyJet.