MANCHESTER - 7
Join Date: Aug 2007
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I'm sure I read somewhere that they'd either just got or were about to get A330-300's so maybe that's a possibility...unless they've been earmarked for specific route(s).
We'll no doubt see soon (or not!)
AldiAl
We'll no doubt see soon (or not!)
AldiAl
Join Date: Jul 2007
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23R ILS
See 23R ILS still hasn't got its CAT 3 ticket. Anyone any more news as to when it will be back?
Q) EGTT/QICXX/I/NBO/A/000/999/5321N00217W005
RWY 23R ILS CONFORMS TO FACILITY PERFORMANCE CAT 1. LOC NOT SUITABLE FOR GUIDANCE DURING TAKEOFF RUNA3928/09
FROM: 30 DEC 2009 15:11 TO: 31 JAN 2010 12:00
LTN had an ILS replaced about the same time. Is that now CAT 3 qualified?
Suzeman
Q) EGTT/QICXX/I/NBO/A/000/999/5321N00217W005
RWY 23R ILS CONFORMS TO FACILITY PERFORMANCE CAT 1. LOC NOT SUITABLE FOR GUIDANCE DURING TAKEOFF RUNA3928/09
FROM: 30 DEC 2009 15:11 TO: 31 JAN 2010 12:00
LTN had an ILS replaced about the same time. Is that now CAT 3 qualified?
Suzeman
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Further to BG and the planned DAC-MAN-JFK run, a new UK-Bangladesh Air Services Agreement has been reached. Doesn't specifically mention rights for MAN-JFK but i believe the UK government would not go out of the way to object granted the limited amount of traffic that would be generated on this route compared to the amount of capacity that exists on MAN-New York
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ILS 23R
Hi Suzeman.
The reason the ILS is still not certified to CAT III standards and Lutons is and has been for three months now, is that MA awarded the contract to a different supplier, who, to put it in its simplest terms, cocked-up the replacement programme!
As I understand it a sustained continuous operation of 350 hours whilst on 23R is required, and during which time the ILS system has to work 100% for 100% of the time.
This hasn't happened on two counts.
Operations on 23R have been less than normal due to the fact that the weather has dictated the use of 05L, both due to wind direction and where that's not been a factor due to the fact that the met conditions require a CAT III capable landing system.
While 05L ILS is radiating then you cannot radiate 23R at the same time. As soon as ops return to 05, and the 23R ILS is switched off, the hours return to zero and it starts all over again when next on 23 !
Combine that with the fact that when the ops are on 23R, the new ILS system keeps tripping itself up by failing and once it fails and then fixed, the 350 hours has to start building up again from zero.
Basically Manchester bought 2nd rate system, 2nd rate installation leading to crap results. Luton bought a first rate system and had the Best NATS instalation. If the installation had been conducted as it should have been and the system was as relaible as the one at Luton, then we would have had CAT III at the beginning of November! You get what you pay for.
Just hope that lessons have been learnt by the installers of the 23R system, as the same firm are due to replace 05L and 05R in due course, but only when 23R has acheived its CAT III status, so sometime before 2015 then ??
The reason the ILS is still not certified to CAT III standards and Lutons is and has been for three months now, is that MA awarded the contract to a different supplier, who, to put it in its simplest terms, cocked-up the replacement programme!
As I understand it a sustained continuous operation of 350 hours whilst on 23R is required, and during which time the ILS system has to work 100% for 100% of the time.
This hasn't happened on two counts.
Operations on 23R have been less than normal due to the fact that the weather has dictated the use of 05L, both due to wind direction and where that's not been a factor due to the fact that the met conditions require a CAT III capable landing system.
While 05L ILS is radiating then you cannot radiate 23R at the same time. As soon as ops return to 05, and the 23R ILS is switched off, the hours return to zero and it starts all over again when next on 23 !
Combine that with the fact that when the ops are on 23R, the new ILS system keeps tripping itself up by failing and once it fails and then fixed, the 350 hours has to start building up again from zero.
Basically Manchester bought 2nd rate system, 2nd rate installation leading to crap results. Luton bought a first rate system and had the Best NATS instalation. If the installation had been conducted as it should have been and the system was as relaible as the one at Luton, then we would have had CAT III at the beginning of November! You get what you pay for.
Just hope that lessons have been learnt by the installers of the 23R system, as the same firm are due to replace 05L and 05R in due course, but only when 23R has acheived its CAT III status, so sometime before 2015 then ??
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23R ILS
This seems to sum up many of MAN's problems at the moment.
It is noted that the MAG website is no longer showing some if not all of the airfield improvements which were due to start.
Has the work on Taxiway Delta finished. It was due to be at the end of last year.If so when will Lima reopen and stands 12 etc.
What has happened to the rebuilding of Taxiway Alpha near the AVP. It was due to start the end of last year. Presumably shelved. Reference is made to an overlay but no information. More patching up.
The airfield needs a lot of working doing on it. Much is announced and then dropped.
As has been mentioned elsewhere how MAN is supposed to handle an A380 I really don't know. I think it would be mad to do so as things stand but if it can't and EK want to send one here later this year I can't see EK being that impressed with the set up.
Finally back to the ILS 05L is due to be replaced when 23R is back to CAT III whenever that maybe. However nothing definate has been said about 05R getting CAT III. -- Is this in the pipeline. Further if Runway 1 is to be resurfaced (although the start date for that seems to have been put back from the beginning of this year to the end- if it happens) 23L really should have at least CAT I.
Runway 2 really is only half a runway at best.
It is noted that the MAG website is no longer showing some if not all of the airfield improvements which were due to start.
Has the work on Taxiway Delta finished. It was due to be at the end of last year.If so when will Lima reopen and stands 12 etc.
What has happened to the rebuilding of Taxiway Alpha near the AVP. It was due to start the end of last year. Presumably shelved. Reference is made to an overlay but no information. More patching up.
The airfield needs a lot of working doing on it. Much is announced and then dropped.
As has been mentioned elsewhere how MAN is supposed to handle an A380 I really don't know. I think it would be mad to do so as things stand but if it can't and EK want to send one here later this year I can't see EK being that impressed with the set up.
Finally back to the ILS 05L is due to be replaced when 23R is back to CAT III whenever that maybe. However nothing definate has been said about 05R getting CAT III. -- Is this in the pipeline. Further if Runway 1 is to be resurfaced (although the start date for that seems to have been put back from the beginning of this year to the end- if it happens) 23L really should have at least CAT I.
Runway 2 really is only half a runway at best.
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Etihads 1st A330-300 is already in service operating the LHR flts. There 2nd one is due 27th i believe. They are in a 3 class layout so doubt you will see them in MAN on a regular basis. Think you will be stuck with the 2 class A330-200s for some time with the occasional visit of the 3 class 200s.
I do use the service many times and it is always very busy especially business class.
Shyted
I do use the service many times and it is always very busy especially business class.
Shyted
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I hear that Air Baltic maybe about to launch a return into Man. during March with a three times a week service to Riga and two to Vilnius.
VNO now confirmed (didn't check RIX as I'm on LT's side
), Thu/Sat, wait, depending on how you look at it it's Fri/Sun. Departing MAN at 0:50, arriving MAN at 0:10. Don't think even FR has such aircraft utilisation - even through the night.
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BT to VNO
Very strange times.
What interests me though is the flights to DUB are reported to have exactly the same times as MAN.
Do the DUB flights fly a bit quicker to cover the greater distance.?!
What interests me though is the flights to DUB are reported to have exactly the same times as MAN.
Do the DUB flights fly a bit quicker to cover the greater distance.?!
Join Date: Mar 2007
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They often have larger sectors than the flight would ever actually take to operate, mainly to make sure flights get away on time/slots available.
FR have been famous for this ie) BLK's initial GRO season had a sector time of 2 hours 30 minutes - it ended up between 1:30 and 1:45 for the five times I have flown the route.
FR have been famous for this ie) BLK's initial GRO season had a sector time of 2 hours 30 minutes - it ended up between 1:30 and 1:45 for the five times I have flown the route.
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23R ILS
Hi Adola
Thanks for your explanation of the situation with the 23R ILS. Seems that we might have to wait some time.....
I note that it has just past 2015 with no sign of anything happening so I'm off down the pub.
Suzeman
Thanks for your explanation of the situation with the 23R ILS. Seems that we might have to wait some time.....
so sometime before 2015 then ??
Suzeman
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Remember the public inquiry for R2? 40m pax (or was it 50m) by 2015? Anyone got the growth pattern to get there, year by year? Would be interesting to compare it to actual.
Continue to wonder whether R2 was ever really needed.
Continue to wonder whether R2 was ever really needed.
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and of course, they spectacularly failed to predict all events over the last decade which have had an impact on the numbers of passengers travelling. If you think cramming 50+ movements onto a 42 movement/hr runway (at the time) is conducive to safe operations, please contact the CAA and/or BAA as your know-how would be appreciated by them so that there would be no need for another LHR runway.
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Re RW2 ...Momentary Lapse
RW2 rec'd planning permission in '97
pax numbers since then are ...
1998 17,351,162
1999 17,577,765
2000 18,568,709
2001 19,307,011
2002 18,809,185
2003 19,699,256
2004 21,249,841
2005 22,402,856
2006 22,422,855
2007 22,112,625
2008 21,219,195
......to be fair I think all of us on here would have agreed that a second runway was essential given the projections at that time, and whilst I have been more than critical of MAG management I doubt they could really have taken any other course, "damned if you do, damned if you do not"
Sadly we are now back to 2001 levels in terms of pax 2009 with numbers down 25%, BUT I suspect MAG will still be paying for a second runway based on the '97 projections, for years, that is why there is now no money !
.....That said not sure how much was also paid for Humberside, Bournemouth etc the relevance of which to Manchester , really does escape me !
Quite how a number of NWest based councils specifically set up to support Manchester and the Northern populous using MAG as the vehicle, was then allowed on this excursion ...well !
"words fail me "
RW2 rec'd planning permission in '97
pax numbers since then are ...
1998 17,351,162
1999 17,577,765
2000 18,568,709
2001 19,307,011
2002 18,809,185
2003 19,699,256
2004 21,249,841
2005 22,402,856
2006 22,422,855
2007 22,112,625
2008 21,219,195
......to be fair I think all of us on here would have agreed that a second runway was essential given the projections at that time, and whilst I have been more than critical of MAG management I doubt they could really have taken any other course, "damned if you do, damned if you do not"
Sadly we are now back to 2001 levels in terms of pax 2009 with numbers down 25%, BUT I suspect MAG will still be paying for a second runway based on the '97 projections, for years, that is why there is now no money !
.....That said not sure how much was also paid for Humberside, Bournemouth etc the relevance of which to Manchester , really does escape me !
Quite how a number of NWest based councils specifically set up to support Manchester and the Northern populous using MAG as the vehicle, was then allowed on this excursion ...well !
"words fail me "
Join Date: Sep 2003
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Ringwayman - even post 9/11, MAG were still predicting fantasy numbers for growth. Forecasts made in 2002 were for 30m+ by 2010 and even if you take it back to pre-recession times, they were forecasting 27m/28m for 2007. Were there any events between 2002 and 2007 that had any dramatic impact on passenger numbers? You'll have to remind me, because as I recall it was a boom period. The "safety" angle is a nice try at a bit of revisionism but doesn't fool anyone who was on the receiving end of the lobbying for R2. We all know it was about overtaking LGW, stopping LPL getting a foothold in the NW and laying down a marker in the willy waving contest about the second city status.
Viscount702
Delta & Lima have both been open for a while now....
Stand 10 went back to into service recently (last week I think).
Work on the new stands at the end of B pier delayed due the recent WX although it looks it's in the final stages.
As for other works ..... I suspect you'll find that the WX may now cause a re-hash there ...... the recent snow/frost/ice has caused some damage here and there.
All works when promulgated contain the warning that time frames may change due to WX.
Delta & Lima have both been open for a while now....
Stand 10 went back to into service recently (last week I think).
Work on the new stands at the end of B pier delayed due the recent WX although it looks it's in the final stages.
As for other works ..... I suspect you'll find that the WX may now cause a re-hash there ...... the recent snow/frost/ice has caused some damage here and there.
All works when promulgated contain the warning that time frames may change due to WX.
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From 28th March Czech Airlines resumes MAN-PRG with 6 weekly flights.
PRG-MAN 20:00-21:20 (except Saturday)
MAN-PRG 07:15-10:25 (except Sunday)
From 1st February Viking Hellas will launch 3 weekly flights MAN-ATH.
PRG-MAN 20:00-21:20 (except Saturday)
MAN-PRG 07:15-10:25 (except Sunday)
From 1st February Viking Hellas will launch 3 weekly flights MAN-ATH.
Last edited by Seljuk22; 27th Jan 2010 at 08:13.
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"The "safety" angle is a nice try at a bit of revisionism but doesn't fool anyone who was on the receiving end of the lobbying for R2. We all know it was about overtaking LGW, stopping LPL getting a foothold in the NW and laying down a marker in the willy waving contest about the second city status"
On the contrary I think the management genuinely believed it although the forecast figures as you point out were fanciful to say the least !
That said they were at least heading UP at a good rate !
Not sure that you can argue against the safety element though....whilst LGW handles twice the pax that MAN does on a single runway I am sure the mix of traffic is very different, more jets,shorter transition approach/departure times, and much heavier payloads per individual aircraft etc. I am sure the flow rate is much higher on that basis.
....as for second city well no argument there.. by any "sensible" measure, economic, sporting, food, art, music or general culture it is and will remain so!
(...despite the stereotypes in Coronation St, NW tonight etc, M.E.N. et al)
On the contrary I think the management genuinely believed it although the forecast figures as you point out were fanciful to say the least !
That said they were at least heading UP at a good rate !
Not sure that you can argue against the safety element though....whilst LGW handles twice the pax that MAN does on a single runway I am sure the mix of traffic is very different, more jets,shorter transition approach/departure times, and much heavier payloads per individual aircraft etc. I am sure the flow rate is much higher on that basis.
....as for second city well no argument there.. by any "sensible" measure, economic, sporting, food, art, music or general culture it is and will remain so!
(...despite the stereotypes in Coronation St, NW tonight etc, M.E.N. et al)