FlyBe - 6

[Boing7117]

Unless it's WET, WET, WET and then you've no excuse!

[BluffOldSeaDog]

Will live for that, and a 5kt crosswind

[hampshireandy]

the view out is good (due to high wings) and legroom is better than some charters I have been on.

Unless youre in one of the many seats by the engines, when all you can see is, yes youve got it, engine.

[Alloa Akbar]

So, the airline aside.. Anyone got any views on what is to become of Engineering Services and the Training Academy?

[E75toDUS]

175 vs 195

the smaller aircraft is a good option but the larger makes more money it seems.

Interesting point, but I wondered if BACF at LCY vs BE a bit of an apples-to-oranges comparison. LCY has a potentially super-strong business clientele and the airport setup prevents competitors turning up with A319/737

Whereas, BHX/MAN may have fewer business passengers and few restrictions, so as soon as BE can make a 122 seat E195 work with their cost base, they are at risk of being eaten alive by easyjet/Ryanair? Perhaps adding frequency with the 90-seat jet adds capacity without risking being clobbered by the competition.

That being said, if my very limited understanding of SOU being pretty small is right, maybe BE can make the E195 work from there?

This thread is really interesting to me as some Q400 vs Ejet comments bring home how BE is really different things to different people. E.g. Exeter to Manchester, competing with the train or Manchester/Birmingham to Germany, competing with LH. At this point, I am taking away the idea that the Ejet is maybe too costly to do the former, the Q400 is maybe unsuitable to do the latter. Lufthansa Regional and ArrivaXC are very different competitors.

[JimNich]

The arguement about TPs against jets on domestic routes, financially, is all very well. The simple truth is that the great British public have been travelling on them for decades. They may whinge about the size (it a male thing) and noise (its a female thing) all they like, but we've been doing it for years, up and down the islands for millions of flying hours. Not many pilots out there who haven't cut their teeth on turbo-props.

No-one else has Flybe's poor dispatch rate for the Q400, so its not all the aircraft's fault.

[EMB-145LR]

No-one else has Flybe's poor dispatch rate for the Q400, so its not all the aircraft's fault.

I disagree wholeheartedly. SAS got rid of their entire fleet of Q400s due to poor dispatch rate. Over here in the USA United is looking at getting rid of it's Q400 flying which is contracted to Republic Airways, again due to extremely poor dispatch reliability. The Q400 is a maintenance hog. I fly the ERJ-145 in the US and I have lost count of how many times we have been asked to operate a flight in place of a tech Q400 in the past six months. I did it just last week in Denver.

[SWBKCB]

They may whinge about the size (it a male thing) and noise (its a female thing)

I've been curious about the differing comments about the pax reaction to the Dash8, so have discussed with a number of colleagues (mainly female) who travel regularly from here in Newcastle to our offices in Exeter - it is one of the few domestic routes we are allowed to fly (so long as it is cheaper than the train, which it normally is unless last minute).

Most have responded as if I'm stupid and just regarded it as a smaller aircraft but otherwise no different to the EZY, BAW, etc they are used to.

Not bothered about propellers, no mention of noise and most comments about carry-on's was how much people brought on! Main comment was around timing and frequency, although most accept they are lucky there is a service at all. The alternative is EZY to BRS then hire car - most would rather chew their own arm off than take the train (6 hours...).

[spottilludrop]

Sounds a tall yarn ,cannot see a company such as SAS cocking up like that ,spotters urban myth more like,.......Unless of course you have some facts supporting your tale in which case i would stand corrected

[Tonyq]

Go read the accident reports of the time, if you need convincing

Plenty of links here, under "Major landing gear incidents"

Bombardier Dash 8 - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

[MonsieurMalchance]

Terribly nice of Bombardier to pay compensation for faults that are caused by shoddy maintenance.

SAS orders 27 Bombardier aircraft in Q400 settlement deal

"The details of the agreement are confidential but SAS Group confirms the total financial compensation is slightly more than SEK 1 billion ($164 million) in the form of a cash payment and credits for future firm and optional aircraft orders”

Considering how important reputation is to any aircraft manufacturer I really can't see Bombardier agreeing to take this hit if there was any suspicion that these particular issues were caused by poor SAS maintenance.

None of the reports on the specific accidents seem to point the finger at SAS either. Yes, they had maintenance/safety issues around the same time, but there is nothing to suggest it was this that caused the problems with the Q400.

[spottilludrop]

As suspected total and rumour i also could find nothing that suggested SAS were guilty of poor maintenance leading to landing gear failure , spotter nonsense as per usual

No wonder we are viewed as a joke on here by those in the industry we are not pilots we are not engineers we are not ATC we are enthusiasts lets face that fact and post accordingly and stop giving the many knockers out there ammo

Im proud to be a spotter long may that continue

[Cloud1]

Time to interrupt those who have naff all knowledge on Flybe, it's aircraft and it's product.

Cut with the whinging over aircraft type. Props, jets, bloody pigs that fly I don't care what it looks or sounds like if it gets me from A to B who cares!! Those that prefer a jet pay no more for the privilege over a prop despite what some may think. Passengers do NOT care - it is a misconception and if they did care the likes of Flybe, Aurigny, Blue Islands, Austrian (Tyrolean), ANA, Qantas link, Air Baltic, Aer Arran, CityWing, Luxair, Skywork, Air Berlin to name a few would not be here today. They all operate props on a number of their routes and in some cases all.

The SAS Q400 incident happened twice - both with SAS!! An ANA aircraft landed without a nose gear just like Southwest's B737, Blue Islands ATR, Manx2 Jerstream 31 - it happens. There was huge attention on SAS maintenance abilities hence why a lot of their aircraft went to Flybe afterwards for maintenance.

spottilludrop - no need to get aggressive or emotional. Try and just acknowledge someone's contribution and if you don't agree tell them that but simply and without the accompanying tone.

500 jobs at risk, a great airline that will pull through at the end of it

[NickBarnes]

Well said cloud1

[EMB-145LR]

The SAS landing gear incidents were just a very small percentage of the problems encountered with the Q400. The problem is dispatch reliability. The Q goes tech a lot. At Republic the current dispatch reliability is 89.7%, that is appalling, utterly, utterly appalling. Colgan had the same problem when they operated the type. The figure of 92% dispatch reliability for the Flybe Qs is equally appalling.

At my company we operate 244 ERJ-145s. The average age of our fleet is 9 years old. Our current dispatch reliability is 99.48% and our company is worried that that is not good enough.

[Jack1985]

ATR say the dispatch reliability of the 72-500 is over 99%, however I know of quite a lot of tech incidents with that type, so is that figure over inflated?

[EI-BUD]

Props, jets, bloody pigs that fly I don't care what it looks or sounds like
if it gets me from A to B who cares!! Those that prefer a jet pay no more for
the privilege over a prop despite what some may think. Passengers do NOT care -
it is a misconception and if they did care the likes of Flybe, Aurigny, Blue
Islands, Austrian (Tyrolean), ANA, Qantas link, Air Baltic, Aer Arran, CityWing,
Luxair, Skywork, Air Berlin to name a few would not be here today. They all
operate props on a number of their routes and in some cases all.

Cloud1

As an aside from the debate about Q400 and dispatch reliability, I highly disagree with your comments on it being irrelevant whether it is prop or jet. I also disagree that 'those that prefer a jet pay for the privilege.

In Belfast as an example, I will not fly Flybe as I dont like prop. IMHO, this plane is uncomforable, cramped, is awful in windy weather.

Many people in Belfast I have heard say things like I dont like flying on those small flybe planes, the ones with the propellers. This is common. many routes from belfast e.g LBA there is not alternative.

As for your comment re paying for the priviledge of flying on a jet. easyJet mostly always cheaper on competing routes, e.g. LGW, MAN BHX GLA EDI on a 319 over a 400 on BE ex BHD.

Aer Lingus 319 to LGW usually cheaper than Flybe Q400 which now travels this routes on many flights. I certainly wouldn't like to be on a prop all the way down to LGW from BHD and also the chances of sitting where the engines block my view. no thanks.

EI-BUD

[NickBarnes]

I really can't see problems with people and the Q400, your rarely on it it for more than an hour, it's not cramped, shows how silly people are just because we are in 2013 prop aircraft must be ancient and 20 years old

[JC25]

Ok, I think we can all agree now that some people do not like flying on props. But I think a lot of people here are overstating how much of a deal breaker it really is, especially on short sectors. The truth is that most people frankly don't give a toss as long they get from A to B at a convenient time and a reasonable cost.

I have been working on the Q400 for about 7 years an yes I have heard a significant number of people moan and complain that they don't like it. But they are massively outnumbered by the people who comment on a pleasant flight. Even more massively outnumbered by people who just don't give a damn either way.

The fact is that the Q400 is right for the job on the vast majority of our network and without it many routes just would not work. It may not be to everyone's liking, but nothing would be.

[Lord Spandex Masher]

Originally Posted by WingoWango

As has already been said the sector lengths on turbo props are usually only small though.

What about after next year? Is the Dash going to be used on the Sun Routes?