LEEDS 5
Join Date: Jun 2000
Location: Leeds Yorkshire England
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A300boy
As I said better options were discarded in the past with military requirements for airspace in the vale of York being stated as one of the reasons. I repeat that Luton has most of the same problems as Leeds and handles around 10 million passengers a year. for Rainboe to ponder ! starter strips turning loops building up the undershoot area to move the threshold touch down points are all possible and I am sure the true experts can add a few more ideas.
Join Date: Dec 2005
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Church Fenton.
Dead close to the A1 and M62, and riddled with train access too.
Runway would need stretching, but there's plenty of space for that.
Just need to kick the last stragglers of the RAF out once and for all.
leeds - Google Maps
Too close to VOY, though.
Dead close to the A1 and M62, and riddled with train access too.
Runway would need stretching, but there's plenty of space for that.
Just need to kick the last stragglers of the RAF out once and for all.
leeds - Google Maps
Too close to VOY, though.
Last edited by harrogate; 17th Dec 2008 at 14:28.
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On checking I see that nearly all the traffic in and out of Leeds is domestic and European, for which the airport is well equipped. Most aircraft are 737,s, airbuses, along with turbo props and bmi Emb 145·s. etc. plus a few 757's
The long haul flights are few. The present operators, i.e jet2, KLM, Bmi, Ryanair, Thomas Cook and others all seem content with the present situation and are in fact contemplating further expansion in time. Most people seem to consider LBA´s accessability to be a problem but then local councillors, MPs, etc need to address this situation, for instance what about the rail link from the Horsforth Harrogate line? All this can be done, it just takes money and will power. But why move away?, and where to?
The airport has its problems with weather related issues, and that cannot be changed, some other airports are in similar situations.
Whilst the Govt have indicated they would consider a runway extension desirable those managing the airport have considered other matters of more importance. See the masterplan.
If the long haul traffic increases and the airlines such as PIA demand improvements to the runway capablities then this can be addressed, but most of the increase for the future is going to come from short to medium haul business.
We all live in the real world.
The long haul flights are few. The present operators, i.e jet2, KLM, Bmi, Ryanair, Thomas Cook and others all seem content with the present situation and are in fact contemplating further expansion in time. Most people seem to consider LBA´s accessability to be a problem but then local councillors, MPs, etc need to address this situation, for instance what about the rail link from the Horsforth Harrogate line? All this can be done, it just takes money and will power. But why move away?, and where to?
The airport has its problems with weather related issues, and that cannot be changed, some other airports are in similar situations.
Whilst the Govt have indicated they would consider a runway extension desirable those managing the airport have considered other matters of more importance. See the masterplan.
If the long haul traffic increases and the airlines such as PIA demand improvements to the runway capablities then this can be addressed, but most of the increase for the future is going to come from short to medium haul business.
We all live in the real world.
Join Date: Feb 2002
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Rainboe, take a look at the masterplan the extension on the 32 start I assume will be level ground creating a RESA( currenly a dispensation exists for this) so not much advantage at that end other than increased SAFETY! The 32 threshold could then be moved to the end of the old bit allowing a flat touchdown zone before the dip starts. Given modern aircraft this coupled with the 500 ft overrun being concreated over at the 14 start and a new soft overrun, LBA would then have a runway on a par with BHX. Oh and it would even ponit in the same direction.
You write the place off too easily Rainboe.
You write the place off too easily Rainboe.
Last edited by HOODED; 17th Dec 2008 at 21:01.
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Hi Rainboe,
There are two issues on the table here which in reality are entirely separate. The first is "safety" and if the suggestion is that there has been, for the last 24 years, a consistent failure by the CAA, the management of many of Europe's major airlines and thousands of aircrew with regard to LBA operations then SURELY there is a moral and professional duty to blow the whistle. If you think something is unsafe and a risk to passenger safety, you tell people in authority that it's unsafe and you keep escalating upwards until someone listens. Isn't that how it works? The resurfacing fiasco at BRS in the very recent past would seem to suggest so.
If on the other hand you aren't exposing an institutional failure across the industry and instead are simply playing your favoured "I'm toxic" pantomime villain role, you might want to choose your language more carefully. You're the first to jump up and down in response to media hyperbole and sensationalism , especially when it threatens job security , so maybe it's time for you to afford the same level of respect to the 2,000 or so people who depend on the airport for their employment.
In other words, it's time to put up or shut up.
The viability of the airport as a business is something different altogether. The history of the airport and the development of an alternative is dogged by political interference, poor decision making and a lack of investment. Dumb decisions spanning the last 45 years have a much greater influence on the 2008 route network than a runway length and profile that operators have been working with for 24 years.
LBA is hardly unique in this regard as I'm sure anyone who is close to the case of Filton vs Lulsgate in the South West is well aware. Yet the reality is that with over a decade of private ownership behind it. BRS is one of the country's most successful provincial airports; big passenger throughput, wide and varied route network and an important economic contributor. LBA is just 18 months into the same journey with a management team comprised of, entirely without coincidence, the architects of various stages of the Bristol revolution. Who would have thought it? And just as BRS success was based on an aggressive commercial strategy to win airline business, a big and proud PR strategy to win the hearts and minds of the locals and investment in passenger facilities, so we see the same unfolding at LBA. Folk expecting parallel taxiways and runway extensions,will be disappointed. Just because it exists in some shiny pdf brochure means nothing. The one thing BRS did invest in was CAT3 and similarly the only thing I'd expect them to now do at LBA is bump up 14 to CAT2 which would take away about two thirds of the 80 or so diversions each year. If the CAA approve it, it might even come with an extra 100m of LDA due to changes to the threshold. Apart from that, passenger facilities, route development and marketing is where they will spend. The big unknown is whether they will hold their nerve through the recession.
682
There are two issues on the table here which in reality are entirely separate. The first is "safety" and if the suggestion is that there has been, for the last 24 years, a consistent failure by the CAA, the management of many of Europe's major airlines and thousands of aircrew with regard to LBA operations then SURELY there is a moral and professional duty to blow the whistle. If you think something is unsafe and a risk to passenger safety, you tell people in authority that it's unsafe and you keep escalating upwards until someone listens. Isn't that how it works? The resurfacing fiasco at BRS in the very recent past would seem to suggest so.
If on the other hand you aren't exposing an institutional failure across the industry and instead are simply playing your favoured "I'm toxic" pantomime villain role, you might want to choose your language more carefully. You're the first to jump up and down in response to media hyperbole and sensationalism , especially when it threatens job security , so maybe it's time for you to afford the same level of respect to the 2,000 or so people who depend on the airport for their employment.
In other words, it's time to put up or shut up.
The viability of the airport as a business is something different altogether. The history of the airport and the development of an alternative is dogged by political interference, poor decision making and a lack of investment. Dumb decisions spanning the last 45 years have a much greater influence on the 2008 route network than a runway length and profile that operators have been working with for 24 years.
LBA is hardly unique in this regard as I'm sure anyone who is close to the case of Filton vs Lulsgate in the South West is well aware. Yet the reality is that with over a decade of private ownership behind it. BRS is one of the country's most successful provincial airports; big passenger throughput, wide and varied route network and an important economic contributor. LBA is just 18 months into the same journey with a management team comprised of, entirely without coincidence, the architects of various stages of the Bristol revolution. Who would have thought it? And just as BRS success was based on an aggressive commercial strategy to win airline business, a big and proud PR strategy to win the hearts and minds of the locals and investment in passenger facilities, so we see the same unfolding at LBA. Folk expecting parallel taxiways and runway extensions,will be disappointed. Just because it exists in some shiny pdf brochure means nothing. The one thing BRS did invest in was CAT3 and similarly the only thing I'd expect them to now do at LBA is bump up 14 to CAT2 which would take away about two thirds of the 80 or so diversions each year. If the CAA approve it, it might even come with an extra 100m of LDA due to changes to the threshold. Apart from that, passenger facilities, route development and marketing is where they will spend. The big unknown is whether they will hold their nerve through the recession.
682
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a good deal safer
Rainboe, the airfield is inherently safer than those pre-extension days. This is borne out by logic, which is derived from the present runway with improved parameters and facilities, plus the replacement of older and less capable type aircraft. The evidence for this comes in the decline in the number of incidents. I remember 5/6 such accidents in my time there, so almost 1 every 2 years. In those days it perhaps was an accident waiting to happen, but not nowadays. However crews still need to remain vigilant (whats new?).
Join Date: Nov 2002
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Sensible posts met with silence....
As ever, a sensible post (that of Mr 682....) derives not a great deal of response (save for BigT). Suspect that his reasoned points stop people in their tracks! At the end of the day the commercial reality will always drive the operational imperative.
I've always subscribed to the view that the 'issues' of LBA have meant that pilots treat the airfield with something akin to respect but in other circles might be distrust/disdain/hostility. Whatever you call it I believe it has meant that LBA has always seen pilots doing what they do best, professional flying, in challenging conditions.
As someone that used to manage the people at the pointy end of vehicles (albeit ground based), my experience is that such people tend to make their mistakes in those mundane situations/circumstances, however when kept on their toes, mistakes are less likely to happen. I know that if I were a professional pilot, flying into LBA would be a highlight, a bit like the old Kai Tak, Funchal, Chambery, Innsbruck or Salzburg.
I've always subscribed to the view that the 'issues' of LBA have meant that pilots treat the airfield with something akin to respect but in other circles might be distrust/disdain/hostility. Whatever you call it I believe it has meant that LBA has always seen pilots doing what they do best, professional flying, in challenging conditions.
As someone that used to manage the people at the pointy end of vehicles (albeit ground based), my experience is that such people tend to make their mistakes in those mundane situations/circumstances, however when kept on their toes, mistakes are less likely to happen. I know that if I were a professional pilot, flying into LBA would be a highlight, a bit like the old Kai Tak, Funchal, Chambery, Innsbruck or Salzburg.
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Xmas Day Apron Line Up
Just looking at the Multiflight web cam now the fog has cleared.
What is the blue tail and white fuselage aircraft in the middle of the Jet2 machines?
Back to more family orientated seasonal pastimes.......zzzz
Setel Up
What is the blue tail and white fuselage aircraft in the middle of the Jet2 machines?
Back to more family orientated seasonal pastimes.......zzzz
Setel Up
Join Date: Jan 2004
Location: 1/2 a mile to the right of 14 top end of Yeadon
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Hi Setel Up
Happy Christmas to you.
The aircraft looks like it is the Hamburg International A319
D-AHIJ, was parked there yesterday morning.
ILS32
Happy Christmas to you.
The aircraft looks like it is the Hamburg International A319
D-AHIJ, was parked there yesterday morning.
ILS32
Join Date: Nov 2006
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Gusting 260/34G58 Kts! And the BMI A320 just got in! Kudos to the pilot on that one it must of been one hell of a ride.
I knew the BMI A320 would still appear at LBIA, Even thou BD swore that it was going to be all 135/145 flying?
145's not big enough for certain flight times, They (BD) know that but, Are trying to 'Squeeze' everyone in.
I knew the BMI A320 would still appear at LBIA, Even thou BD swore that it was going to be all 135/145 flying?
145's not big enough for certain flight times, They (BD) know that but, Are trying to 'Squeeze' everyone in.
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: Norfolk but my Heart is still in Leeds
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