Bmibaby
Sorry if this is turning into a Knock thread, but we travel once or twice a year from the Midlands to the west of Ireland to visit family. Up until 5 years ago we always went by ferry with the car. I then realised we could travel by air into Knock and hire a car and save money. This is what we've done since.
However we visited at Easter and the cheapest airfare I could find was £500(all in) for 5 returns (looked from Bristol, Luton, Birmingham and E Mids), plus car hire. The fast ferry was £200 return (car and 5 passengers), so that is how we travelled. Now I know that £500 (£100/head) is not a bad fare but we have been spoilt by years of paying £50 to £150 for all 5 of us.
Anecdotal I know but the airlines have to remember that the ferry option is still there. Door to door journey times are 6 hours when flying, 9 hours when driving...not too different.
Dan
However we visited at Easter and the cheapest airfare I could find was £500(all in) for 5 returns (looked from Bristol, Luton, Birmingham and E Mids), plus car hire. The fast ferry was £200 return (car and 5 passengers), so that is how we travelled. Now I know that £500 (£100/head) is not a bad fare but we have been spoilt by years of paying £50 to £150 for all 5 of us.
Anecdotal I know but the airlines have to remember that the ferry option is still there. Door to door journey times are 6 hours when flying, 9 hours when driving...not too different.
Dan
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Driving alternatives
I have tried driving from Malaga to Almeria and wouldn't recommend it - The journey seems to last forever, and the time is not that predictable, so you end up in the airport for ages on the way home.
Murcia to Almeria is much more realistic. I think it takes exactly 2 hours if you use the new toll motorway (€13 each way). Alicante is another 60km or so from Murcia, so add another 0.75 hours.
Put it this way, if the options are local UK airport to Murcia or STN/LGW to Almeria, I would chose the former, and do the 2 hour drive in Spain rather than on the M25. Of course, its even less if your final destination is Vera or Mojacar.
Its also worth bearing in mind that it takes half the time to clear the smaller airports of Almeria/Murcia than the larger ones, and the same is true in the UK, with BHX/EMA being twice as quick as LGW/STN.
Murcia to Almeria is much more realistic. I think it takes exactly 2 hours if you use the new toll motorway (€13 each way). Alicante is another 60km or so from Murcia, so add another 0.75 hours.
Put it this way, if the options are local UK airport to Murcia or STN/LGW to Almeria, I would chose the former, and do the 2 hour drive in Spain rather than on the M25. Of course, its even less if your final destination is Vera or Mojacar.
Its also worth bearing in mind that it takes half the time to clear the smaller airports of Almeria/Murcia than the larger ones, and the same is true in the UK, with BHX/EMA being twice as quick as LGW/STN.
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I have driven regularly to Vera/Mojcar area from LEI, ALC and MJV airports and although LEI is the most convenient (50 mins or so) ALC or MJV are a good alternative as the motorway driving is so much easier than UK.
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U2 should take the idiotic contract they have with LPL to court. They would make the costs back very quickly on the more profitable routes from MAN.
How stupid is it that GB's biggest airline is being held by an airport carrying barely 5m passengers a year?! U2 does that in less than 2 months!
How stupid is it that GB's biggest airline is being held by an airport carrying barely 5m passengers a year?! U2 does that in less than 2 months!
MUFC - how is the contract between EZY and LPL idiotic ?
Easyjet / Stelios were not some kind of naive bumbling innocents when they signed up with LPL - (expensive) lawyers would have been consulted prior to making big commitments. EZY may now regret what they signed..... but they cannot claim not to have understood what they were getting into.
Easyjet / Stelios were not some kind of naive bumbling innocents when they signed up with LPL - (expensive) lawyers would have been consulted prior to making big commitments. EZY may now regret what they signed..... but they cannot claim not to have understood what they were getting into.
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The Competition Commission in the UK strive for competitive behaviour. This is what allows us to buy things so cheap (Asda v Tesco for example). By U2 and LPL signing this contract it takes away U2's ability to compete across the North West.
No company should be confined to one 'work place'
No company should be confined to one 'work place'
EZY are a big company with ample legal resources - they can look after themselves. If they want to get out of the contract and think they have a case to argue, they will be able to put up a fight unaided. If they want to lobby the CAA / Dept of Transport / Dept of Trade + Industry / other regulatory bodies, I'm sure they have the ability to do so.
If the contract is unfair - then they can go to court and get the lawyers involved. If the contract is fair - then it's up to EZY to find a way to resolve it.
Alternatively - it may be that EZY have decided that their corporate resources are best utilised in other parts of Europe - such as France and Italy and that Manchester can take a back seat for the time being.
If the contract is unfair - then they can go to court and get the lawyers involved. If the contract is fair - then it's up to EZY to find a way to resolve it.
Alternatively - it may be that EZY have decided that their corporate resources are best utilised in other parts of Europe - such as France and Italy and that Manchester can take a back seat for the time being.
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It should be remembered that this contract was renegotiated, as a consequence the ninth based aircraft arrive at Liverpool in about one months time.
Easyjets Liverpool base has to be very profitable otherwise it would not continue to add to its base.
Easyjets Liverpool base has to be very profitable otherwise it would not continue to add to its base.
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MUFC FAN
So you think that contracts signed can be torn-up when
you want them to be?
This basic idea of a 'paper' promise has worked for 100's
of years and now you think its a bad thing - it should be
thrown away!
Easyjet were pleased with the 'deal' they struck - all them
years ago - clearly.MAN was turning its nose up at them in
them days - and now that MAN is desperate for business
its convenient for you to ignore the contract.
I would not trust you in a business sense or for that matter
personal sense - too much like the footballers of today - fake.
MM
So you think that contracts signed can be torn-up when
you want them to be?
This basic idea of a 'paper' promise has worked for 100's
of years and now you think its a bad thing - it should be
thrown away!
Easyjet were pleased with the 'deal' they struck - all them
years ago - clearly.MAN was turning its nose up at them in
them days - and now that MAN is desperate for business
its convenient for you to ignore the contract.
I would not trust you in a business sense or for that matter
personal sense - too much like the footballers of today - fake.
MM
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As we know, these deals are widespread across Europe...not just the Peel Airports group!
Furthermore, as has already been commented, generally both sides now involve lawyers to the nth degree to ensure they fully understand what they are getting themselves into - I cannot believe that this doesn't also include a consideration for any possible anti-competitive behaviour.
I would be extremely surprised if it wasn't, in fact, the case that the LPL-EZY deal has no wording whatsoever to the fact that they must limit their operations at MAN or elsewhere in the North-West as this would clearly be deemed anti-competitive. After all, the two biggest players at LPL, easyJet and Ryanair, now both have reasonably substantial operations also at Manchester....so I don't really see where any sort of anti-competitive hint comes into play here?!
It is very likely the case that any agreement includes waivers or discounts off standard fees and charges on the basis that the operating carriers achieve certain volumes or growth rates. In other words a positive spin on carrier growth at the airport in question rather than a negative against any other nearby airport facility.
What is perhaps more interesting, is that whilst Peel have been happy to fight the fight against BMIbaby regarding Teesside, one assumes that a similar deal to that discussed here will be in place with Ryanair. Given that Ryanair have cut back substantially on routes from all Peel Airports (whole aircraft out of LPL, and the historically year-round MME-DUB and DSA-DUB daily routes), Peel have kept very quiet about this.
One wonders whether a compromise has been reached with Ryanair or whether it is simply the case that Peel are 'over a barrel' in that they are afraid to contest the Ryanair culls on the basis that they cannot afford to lose more traffic.
Furthermore, as has already been commented, generally both sides now involve lawyers to the nth degree to ensure they fully understand what they are getting themselves into - I cannot believe that this doesn't also include a consideration for any possible anti-competitive behaviour.
I would be extremely surprised if it wasn't, in fact, the case that the LPL-EZY deal has no wording whatsoever to the fact that they must limit their operations at MAN or elsewhere in the North-West as this would clearly be deemed anti-competitive. After all, the two biggest players at LPL, easyJet and Ryanair, now both have reasonably substantial operations also at Manchester....so I don't really see where any sort of anti-competitive hint comes into play here?!
It is very likely the case that any agreement includes waivers or discounts off standard fees and charges on the basis that the operating carriers achieve certain volumes or growth rates. In other words a positive spin on carrier growth at the airport in question rather than a negative against any other nearby airport facility.
What is perhaps more interesting, is that whilst Peel have been happy to fight the fight against BMIbaby regarding Teesside, one assumes that a similar deal to that discussed here will be in place with Ryanair. Given that Ryanair have cut back substantially on routes from all Peel Airports (whole aircraft out of LPL, and the historically year-round MME-DUB and DSA-DUB daily routes), Peel have kept very quiet about this.
One wonders whether a compromise has been reached with Ryanair or whether it is simply the case that Peel are 'over a barrel' in that they are afraid to contest the Ryanair culls on the basis that they cannot afford to lose more traffic.
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UK Regional Airports
Lets face it, there are far to many airports for a small country, they all are simply unnecessary.
As for MAN, it has 3 terminals, 2 runways, linked very well by rail services and easy accessible by road network from all areas. Why on earth do we need BLK, LPL, LBA, HUY, DSA etc when MAN is under utilised.
Surely it would be far more profitable for airlines to operate a comprehensive network for a single base.
Airlines like EZY should have a network at MAN similar to what they have ay LGW.
As for MAN, it has 3 terminals, 2 runways, linked very well by rail services and easy accessible by road network from all areas. Why on earth do we need BLK, LPL, LBA, HUY, DSA etc when MAN is under utilised.
Surely it would be far more profitable for airlines to operate a comprehensive network for a single base.
Airlines like EZY should have a network at MAN similar to what they have ay LGW.
parky - shame about the desire of people living in places like Liverpool and Leeds who know of the existence of an airport near their home and would like to fly from a place convenient to them
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Lets face it, there are far to many airports for a small country, they all are simply unnecessary.
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I wonder if easyJet consider LPL and MAN as a "joint" hub, with LPL focusing in on the short haul routes with MAN having the longer routes plus duplication of LPL routes where justified? It's going to be quite a sizeable fleet based in this "joint hub" 15 by 2010.
If you look at FR at LPL and MAN, it seems odd that most of the MAN routes don't operate to LPL - I wonder if it were be more worthwhile if they operated them out of LPL with a based aircraft (improbable given that they cut LPL's routes recently?!)
If you look at FR at LPL and MAN, it seems odd that most of the MAN routes don't operate to LPL - I wonder if it were be more worthwhile if they operated them out of LPL with a based aircraft (improbable given that they cut LPL's routes recently?!)
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Regional airports
Swinging the lamp, in the old days airports were owned by Councils. It didnt matter if they made a profit or a loss, they were supported fianancialy due to local pride.
With the transfer to private companies the financial bottom line became important.
With the growth of so called lo cost carriers these smaller regional airports became more attractive. Instead of the odd flight to Jersey and pehaps a Palma charter the smaller regional airports took off. The increase in flights lead to bigger overheads as facilities and staff had to be increased.
This is most noticable at Bristol, Liverpool and Newcastle where it had used to be spot the movement but not so now.
With the boom eventualy comes the bust, lo cost carriers find the major airports more attractive at the expense of the smaller regional ones as they offer cheaper deals, this is happening now.
As flights retreat rom the small regional airports these airports now have the problem of biger overheads, dwindling flights and passenger numbers and have private owners who are not in a position or have no desire to subsidise them.
There are to many airports offering flights to the same places, competing for the same carriers and something will eventually give.
Ryanairs and Easyjets bases remind me of British Airways and British Air Services ( Cambrian/Northeast/Scottish/Channel Islands) with bases all over the place, this was in time reduced to the major airports and is now just London. I suspect the same will happen.
I think some of the smaller airfields have outpunched their weight in recent years and the problems are coming home to roost. Look at Coventry for an example.
Centre cities
With the transfer to private companies the financial bottom line became important.
With the growth of so called lo cost carriers these smaller regional airports became more attractive. Instead of the odd flight to Jersey and pehaps a Palma charter the smaller regional airports took off. The increase in flights lead to bigger overheads as facilities and staff had to be increased.
This is most noticable at Bristol, Liverpool and Newcastle where it had used to be spot the movement but not so now.
With the boom eventualy comes the bust, lo cost carriers find the major airports more attractive at the expense of the smaller regional ones as they offer cheaper deals, this is happening now.
As flights retreat rom the small regional airports these airports now have the problem of biger overheads, dwindling flights and passenger numbers and have private owners who are not in a position or have no desire to subsidise them.
There are to many airports offering flights to the same places, competing for the same carriers and something will eventually give.
Ryanairs and Easyjets bases remind me of British Airways and British Air Services ( Cambrian/Northeast/Scottish/Channel Islands) with bases all over the place, this was in time reduced to the major airports and is now just London. I suspect the same will happen.
I think some of the smaller airfields have outpunched their weight in recent years and the problems are coming home to roost. Look at Coventry for an example.
Centre cities