Short-haul Flights in the UK could be curtailed
People are only going to use the train system where it is convenient and affordable.
Yesterday I needed to get to Stansted for a meeting. I drove to Melton Mowbray station which took 40 mins. It was only £2.50 to park for the day and it's a 2 minute walk from car to platform. The trains both ways were clean, comfortable (I had a reserved seat) and ran precisely on time and what's more the cheap day return fare was £29 for a 2 hr 15 min journey each way. Having arrived at Stansted I was exactly where I needed to be and did not have the hassle of parking the car. Journey time door to door was 3 hours each way - the travel was a thoroughly enjoyable experience whereas driving the 110 miles would have taken just as long, cost a lot more and been far more exhausting.
One aspect which I dont think has been mentioned in this thread is that we need the trains to operate 24/7. The Stansted Express service to London is a classic example. The last train is at midnight and then the next is at 0500. I have seen occasions where the terminal is full of arriving pax but the trains are not running!
Yesterday I needed to get to Stansted for a meeting. I drove to Melton Mowbray station which took 40 mins. It was only £2.50 to park for the day and it's a 2 minute walk from car to platform. The trains both ways were clean, comfortable (I had a reserved seat) and ran precisely on time and what's more the cheap day return fare was £29 for a 2 hr 15 min journey each way. Having arrived at Stansted I was exactly where I needed to be and did not have the hassle of parking the car. Journey time door to door was 3 hours each way - the travel was a thoroughly enjoyable experience whereas driving the 110 miles would have taken just as long, cost a lot more and been far more exhausting.
One aspect which I dont think has been mentioned in this thread is that we need the trains to operate 24/7. The Stansted Express service to London is a classic example. The last train is at midnight and then the next is at 0500. I have seen occasions where the terminal is full of arriving pax but the trains are not running!
Ut Sementem Feeceris
Fireflybob said "The Stansted Express service to London is a classic example. The last train is at midnight and then the next is at 0500. I have seen occasions where the terminal is full of arriving pax but the trains are not running!
I know. It's pathetic beyond belief. This is the first impression that many visitors to the UK get. They must think they've gone back to the dark ages.
What is happening to this country????
A4
I know. It's pathetic beyond belief. This is the first impression that many visitors to the UK get. They must think they've gone back to the dark ages.
What is happening to this country????
A4
Here is the reply I got from the David Cameron's Office:-
Dear Mr XXXX,
Thank you for emailing David Cameron - I am replying on his behalf.
Thank you for writing and for bringing this link to our
attention. As you may have seen, the Quality of Life Policy Group's
report, 'Blueprint for a Green Economy', was published this week.
The Quality of Life Group, chaired by John Gummer and Zac Goldsmith, was
formed by David Cameron over 18 months ago and their final report is the
result of many months of public hearings, research and expert advice.
The report, which is one of the most thorough and comprehensive reports
ever produced by a political party on environmental issues, makes over
100 detailed recommendations to David Cameron and the Shadow Cabinet.
It is important to stress that this is a report to the Party, not from
the Party. In the coming months, we will be considering the
recommendations carefully - alongside the recommendations of our other
policy groups - and drawing from them firm policy commitments for our
General Election manifesto.
The report makes recommendations to improve the quality of life for
everyone through a dynamic economy, a strong society, and a sustainable
environment. This is a vital issue - we have a responsibility in this
generation to make sure we provide a greener and cleaner planet for our
children. We simply cannot go on as we are in terms of the way we run
Government and live our lives. This report is therefore all about
creating incentives for people to help them make greener choices.
The remit of the group was to consider holistically the issues of the
built environment; rural life; food, farming, fishing, and the marine
environment; transport; energy; waste and water. They are all
fundamentally affected by two significant concerns: climate change and
social unease. The report highlights that we cannot continue ignoring
the effects of the world's misuse of its resources while, at the same
time, pretending that we have a society at ease with itself. Radical
change is essential - more of the same is not an option.
David Cameron has therefore made it clear that we will consider very
carefully the recommendations the report makes, which include giving a
stamp duty rebate for energy efficient improvements; increasing demand
for low carbon cars; and reforming Air Passenger Duty. [As you mention
in your letter, the report also includes a proposal to allow local
authorities to insist on retailers charging for car parking,
particularly in out-of-town shopping centres, supermarkets, and outlet
stores with proceeds being applied to bus provision and other
environmental saving objects. As with all the other recommendations, we
will look at this one carefully.]
We are prepared to make tough choices. We have been honest, and have
said very clearly that taxes on pollution will go up. However, those
increases will be offset pound for pound by reductions in family taxes
to help people meet the rising cost of living.
Our approach is completely different to Labour's. Gordon Brown has given
green taxes a bad name by using them as additional stealth taxes. We
believe taxes on pollution can play an important role in tackling
climate change, but only if they are replacement taxes, matched with tax
reductions elsewhere. That is why we have established a family fund into
which all of the new taxes on pollution will go. That money will be
ring-fenced - no civil servants will be able to get their hands on it -
and it will be independently audited. So, as taxes on bad things, like
pollution, go up; taxes on good things, like families, will come down.
The report's proposals are intended to spark a national debate - they
are not firm policies. We therefore encourage you to take part in our
'Stand Up, Speak Up' initiative by visiting our website,
www.Conservatives.com.
Thank you again for your email.
Yours sincerely,
David Beal
Correspondence Secretary
David Cameron's Office
House of Commons
London
SW1A 0AA
Dear Mr XXXX,
Thank you for emailing David Cameron - I am replying on his behalf.
Thank you for writing and for bringing this link to our
attention. As you may have seen, the Quality of Life Policy Group's
report, 'Blueprint for a Green Economy', was published this week.
The Quality of Life Group, chaired by John Gummer and Zac Goldsmith, was
formed by David Cameron over 18 months ago and their final report is the
result of many months of public hearings, research and expert advice.
The report, which is one of the most thorough and comprehensive reports
ever produced by a political party on environmental issues, makes over
100 detailed recommendations to David Cameron and the Shadow Cabinet.
It is important to stress that this is a report to the Party, not from
the Party. In the coming months, we will be considering the
recommendations carefully - alongside the recommendations of our other
policy groups - and drawing from them firm policy commitments for our
General Election manifesto.
The report makes recommendations to improve the quality of life for
everyone through a dynamic economy, a strong society, and a sustainable
environment. This is a vital issue - we have a responsibility in this
generation to make sure we provide a greener and cleaner planet for our
children. We simply cannot go on as we are in terms of the way we run
Government and live our lives. This report is therefore all about
creating incentives for people to help them make greener choices.
The remit of the group was to consider holistically the issues of the
built environment; rural life; food, farming, fishing, and the marine
environment; transport; energy; waste and water. They are all
fundamentally affected by two significant concerns: climate change and
social unease. The report highlights that we cannot continue ignoring
the effects of the world's misuse of its resources while, at the same
time, pretending that we have a society at ease with itself. Radical
change is essential - more of the same is not an option.
David Cameron has therefore made it clear that we will consider very
carefully the recommendations the report makes, which include giving a
stamp duty rebate for energy efficient improvements; increasing demand
for low carbon cars; and reforming Air Passenger Duty. [As you mention
in your letter, the report also includes a proposal to allow local
authorities to insist on retailers charging for car parking,
particularly in out-of-town shopping centres, supermarkets, and outlet
stores with proceeds being applied to bus provision and other
environmental saving objects. As with all the other recommendations, we
will look at this one carefully.]
We are prepared to make tough choices. We have been honest, and have
said very clearly that taxes on pollution will go up. However, those
increases will be offset pound for pound by reductions in family taxes
to help people meet the rising cost of living.
Our approach is completely different to Labour's. Gordon Brown has given
green taxes a bad name by using them as additional stealth taxes. We
believe taxes on pollution can play an important role in tackling
climate change, but only if they are replacement taxes, matched with tax
reductions elsewhere. That is why we have established a family fund into
which all of the new taxes on pollution will go. That money will be
ring-fenced - no civil servants will be able to get their hands on it -
and it will be independently audited. So, as taxes on bad things, like
pollution, go up; taxes on good things, like families, will come down.
The report's proposals are intended to spark a national debate - they
are not firm policies. We therefore encourage you to take part in our
'Stand Up, Speak Up' initiative by visiting our website,
www.Conservatives.com.
Thank you again for your email.
Yours sincerely,
David Beal
Correspondence Secretary
David Cameron's Office
House of Commons
London
SW1A 0AA
Of trains and planes ..... I have over many years flown Dusseldorf-Manchester and then trained it through to Scarborough where we have a flat , around every six weeks or so. (cost about e400/450) . However the security (at MAN) has become more and more boring and I took to the Rotterdam-Hull ferry . Brilliant , except in stormy weather . Although stabilised they can move around . Then I came on the idea of the train . Roermond-Maastricht-Brussels-London-Scarborough . Easy .... BUT Roermond-Maastricht , ticket . Maastricht-Brussels , ticket . Brussels-London , ticket e260 return (first class leisure). London-Scarborough , ticket L295 return !!!!!!!!!!!! (e450). Total was around e750 return . Boat (with car e404 (November)plus one tank of petrol return -e55.). The question is WHY and when is Europe going to get it's act together ? They (politicions) want us to use public transport - when are they going to use it and sort it out , paying for themselves - instead of using cars/aircraft paid by the tax payer without any concern as to the price ? Only then will things change for the better .
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The blues are not going to get in anyway or the useless Libs.
Gordon Brown must be laughing his socks off when you have 2 blundering idiots wanting to scrap domestic flights to try and gain votes just because it is the on the the tree huggers wish list. Public transport is crap has and always will be whilst it is private.
The owners want to make money which makes it expensive for the user and therefore the only way people will use it, is if it is cheaper than the alternative ( car, plane).
Rant Over
Gordon Brown must be laughing his socks off when you have 2 blundering idiots wanting to scrap domestic flights to try and gain votes just because it is the on the the tree huggers wish list. Public transport is crap has and always will be whilst it is private.
The owners want to make money which makes it expensive for the user and therefore the only way people will use it, is if it is cheaper than the alternative ( car, plane).
Rant Over
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think of all the airlines it would affect if domesitc flights were scrapped Flybe, Air southwest and other airlines which operate domestic flights, BA, BMI, Jet2, Bmibaby, Flywhoosh, the list goes on and on (i mean i know it wouldln't affect airlines like BA, BMI as much as they have lots of flights outside the UK, but there would still be job cuts). think of all the jobs would be lost, aviation is a big part of the economy. are the Conservative's that stupid, well probally they are.
all i wll say is i have voted conservative for many years, not any more Labour will be getting my vote for sure.
Come on Labour!!!!
all i wll say is i have voted conservative for many years, not any more Labour will be getting my vote for sure.
Come on Labour!!!!
Fit like min?
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Tree-huggers & politicians produce more hot air than the climate change they are supposedly fighting to prevent!
If they all shut up, then carbon emissions may reduce by about 10%!
If they all shut up, then carbon emissions may reduce by about 10%!
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I now fly to PLY from LGW ASW The car drive (last Xmas) took eight hours!! the A303 is one hell of a road. The train takes six hours+ inc changes, the return can take upto ten hours!!!!
Last week left Plymouth 17:45 ASW (and it went via Newquay) got off the train in Eastbourne 20:50 not bad going.
Dave
Last week left Plymouth 17:45 ASW (and it went via Newquay) got off the train in Eastbourne 20:50 not bad going.
Dave
Last edited by DaveO'Leary; 23rd Sep 2007 at 14:43.
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Taxing question!
Here. Here. Richard.
It's all about the tax grab.
Why should anyone have to pay 200% tax premium on a flight LHR-GLA than on a flight LHR-CDG (a fraction of the distance)?
P.S - Speaking of hot air. I'm suprised hot air balloon travel hasn't been taxed yet. (I jest).
It's all about the tax grab.
Why should anyone have to pay 200% tax premium on a flight LHR-GLA than on a flight LHR-CDG (a fraction of the distance)?
P.S - Speaking of hot air. I'm suprised hot air balloon travel hasn't been taxed yet. (I jest).
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Just booked Edinburgh-London by train for £15.70 one-way. It’ll take 4 ½ hours. When you consider getting to and from airports, waiting around at airports, etc, it’ll be quicker than flying. It’ll be less bothersome, less tiring, and less stressful than flying. And it’ll be cheaper than flying.
I have a number of other train and coach trips booked for October and November, and I’m fortunate enough to generally be able to advance book my trips and to thus get the lowest possible fares, e.g. Cheltenham-London for £1 one-way by coach; London-Stansted £2 one-way by coach; Cheltenham-Birmingham for £5 one-way by train; etc.
As much as I love flying I do generally find that it’s often cheaper, simpler, more convenient, and quicker to travel within Britain by train or coach than by air. However, I do occasionally fly domestically; indeed, in the past couple of months I have flown BRS-GLA and EDI-LCY, and I have booked BRS-EDI in November and BHX-GCI and GCI-JER in November.
I have a number of other train and coach trips booked for October and November, and I’m fortunate enough to generally be able to advance book my trips and to thus get the lowest possible fares, e.g. Cheltenham-London for £1 one-way by coach; London-Stansted £2 one-way by coach; Cheltenham-Birmingham for £5 one-way by train; etc.
As much as I love flying I do generally find that it’s often cheaper, simpler, more convenient, and quicker to travel within Britain by train or coach than by air. However, I do occasionally fly domestically; indeed, in the past couple of months I have flown BRS-GLA and EDI-LCY, and I have booked BRS-EDI in November and BHX-GCI and GCI-JER in November.
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JulietNovemberPapa: It’ll take 4 ½ hours. When you consider getting to and from airports, waiting around at airports, etc, it’ll be quicker than flying.
Either you compare brakes off to brakes on for both modes, or door-to-door for both modes.
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I notice you have conveniently failed to mention 'getting to and from stations, waiting around at stations, etc'.
Either you compare brakes off to brakes on for both modes, or door-to-door for both modes.
Either you compare brakes off to brakes on for both modes, or door-to-door for both modes.
So, doorstep to doorstep Edinburgh-London will take me around 4 hours 50 minutes.
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Although obviously not a domestic service, you can get fixed-priced tickets – the same price whether you buy on the day or two months beforehand – from any location with a train station within the UK to Dublin for a maximum of £26 including all the trains and the ferry. And some of the times aren’t unreasonable: about 5 hours 20 minutes from central Liverpool to Dublin Ferry Port for £23; 5 ½ hours from central Manchester to Dublin F. P. for £23; from central Birmingham to Dublin F. P. in 6 hours for £24; from central London to Dublin F. P. in 7 hours for £26; and so on. What about Penzance to Dublin? 12+ hours and £26. 
