BRISTOL - 4
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Expansion damages gardens
The economic impact of expansion of BRS is forecast to have dire effects elsewhere:-
(source: SBAE website)
Obviously further damage to aviations green credentials
The tourism deficit will be losing jobs from elsewhere in the South West tourism industry and other service sectors, e.g. more weekends are being spent abroad and less gardening hence less money will be spent at garden centres
Obviously further damage to aviations green credentials
Join Date: May 2007
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Garden Centres!
Talk about clutching at straws!!
How or who on earth came up with the idea that just because the airport may be expanded it means more people are going to spend less time in the garden???!!!
The way things are at present they would do best at pointing the finger at good old Mother Nature first! It isn't the expansion at the airport that is going to drive more people to go on holiday!
And whilst we are talking about it, is there mention of the possible ££'s that inbound tourism is going to bring to the area??..Thought not...
How or who on earth came up with the idea that just because the airport may be expanded it means more people are going to spend less time in the garden???!!!
The way things are at present they would do best at pointing the finger at good old Mother Nature first! It isn't the expansion at the airport that is going to drive more people to go on holiday!
And whilst we are talking about it, is there mention of the possible ££'s that inbound tourism is going to bring to the area??..Thought not...
StandupfortheUlstermen
Join Date: Dec 2001
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There are too many Garden Centres within a 20 mile radius of Bristol Airport. Thinning out the herd can only be a good thing ( and the quicker the better, before my wife drags me to all of them!).
Seriously though, SBAE really are barking if they think two weeks away each year and the odd weekend break is going to keep people out of their gardens for the other 48 weekends of the year.
(sniff.......sniff) Is that the smell of desperation?
Seriously though, SBAE really are barking if they think two weeks away each year and the odd weekend break is going to keep people out of their gardens for the other 48 weekends of the year.
(sniff.......sniff) Is that the smell of desperation?
Brunel to Concorde
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SBAE
I always think that the barking can be divided into the dafty and the crafty dafty. SBAE are certainly barking but probably in the second category as their usually baseless arguments can seem convincing to many people who accept them at face value. Then again, some of the SBAErs probably do believe their own rhetoric.
Tom to Sharm
Last winter there were three weekly flights to Sharm - two TOM and one Jet2. Is the the third TOM flight announced this week an addition or a replacement for the Jet2?
Consultative Committee
The minutes for the July meeting have been published on the airport website and a few items caught my eye:
Continental to Newark
Looking at the CO booking page it seems the Tuesday/Wednesday overnight inbound and reciprocal Wednesday morning outbound will cease as of 15/16 September.
The winter period appears to remain at 5 x weekly as it has since the service began in 2005, although it seems that at the fag end of the year and in January there may be reductions in rotations on some weeks as there were at the same period last winter.
Can anyone confirm (or deny) any of this?
I always think that the barking can be divided into the dafty and the crafty dafty. SBAE are certainly barking but probably in the second category as their usually baseless arguments can seem convincing to many people who accept them at face value. Then again, some of the SBAErs probably do believe their own rhetoric.
Tom to Sharm
Last winter there were three weekly flights to Sharm - two TOM and one Jet2. Is the the third TOM flight announced this week an addition or a replacement for the Jet2?
Consultative Committee
The minutes for the July meeting have been published on the airport website and a few items caught my eye:
- immigration desks have been increased from five to seven - but will there be sufficient personnel to man them all?
- office space in the Admin building has been reconfigured to accommodate all airport staff on one floor including the CEO, with his former office suite being developed as a staff gym - you up for that, Standard?
- a discussion took place about decreased passenger numbers in the first part of year with the CEO stating that a recovery was in place with some days in July busier than in July 2008, and an outline was given of the many ways in which the airport and partners are working to increase the number of inbound passengers - in the event CAA stats show 3.4% fewer passengers used the airport in July compared with July 2008.
- the meeting was told how well the Flyer Coach was performing with passenger numbers increasing markedly - I read elsewhere the Flyer now carries nearly 12% of all airport passengers.
- As part of the expansion planning applications it is envisaged a significant growth will occur in passengers using public transport with the introduction of express services to Bath and Weston-super-Mare, and in the longer term to Devon and Wales.
Continental to Newark
Looking at the CO booking page it seems the Tuesday/Wednesday overnight inbound and reciprocal Wednesday morning outbound will cease as of 15/16 September.
The winter period appears to remain at 5 x weekly as it has since the service began in 2005, although it seems that at the fag end of the year and in January there may be reductions in rotations on some weeks as there were at the same period last winter.
Can anyone confirm (or deny) any of this?
StandupfortheUlstermen
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office space in the Admin building has been reconfigured to accommodate all airport staff on one floor including the CEO, with his former office suite being developed as a staff gym - you up for that, Standard?
You haven't seen my picture on the Photo thread in JB have you?
Only gym I go near is my brother but he spells it differently.
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Seems to be a very quiet thread compared to LBA/ NCL/ EMA/ Baadiff/ MAN/ BHX...
Anyway, just wondered if SAS had any plans to come back next year? Also I wonder if anyone would come in (FlyBE maybe? Why do they operate just one route from BRS compared to pretty much every other regional where they do a fistfull?) to fill the gap in flights to Germany? We have no connections to any of the big 3 German business destinations (Frankfurt/ Munich/ Düsseldorf), although I would not be surprised to see LH come back in a year or two...
Anyway, just wondered if SAS had any plans to come back next year? Also I wonder if anyone would come in (FlyBE maybe? Why do they operate just one route from BRS compared to pretty much every other regional where they do a fistfull?) to fill the gap in flights to Germany? We have no connections to any of the big 3 German business destinations (Frankfurt/ Munich/ Düsseldorf), although I would not be surprised to see LH come back in a year or two...
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Why would BE want to go into BRS with the likes of Ryanair and EasyJet there? They obviously have choosen CWL to operate their flights as it is much easier to compete against Eastern & Baby at CWL. Flybe haven't a single aircraft based at CWL and all routes are operated on a W pattern via CWL or from other bases.
CWL
JER (Bmibaby)
GLA (Bmibaby)
BHD (Bmibaby operate into BFS)
NCL (Eastern Airways)
CDG (No Competition)
ABZ - loganair (No Competition)
EDI - (Bmibaby)
How much competition would they have on same routes our of BRS and who would their competitors be?
When the economy picks up or if the BD/LH situation results in no more Bmibaby then Flybe will be in the excellent position of having being in CWL for a number of years with an established brand. There is also room for expansion at CWL with more flights from other bases along with based aircraft at CWL.
Why Flybe only operate a JER to/from BRS maybe some kind of charter or is it a year round route?
Mathers
CWL
JER (Bmibaby)
GLA (Bmibaby)
BHD (Bmibaby operate into BFS)
NCL (Eastern Airways)
CDG (No Competition)
ABZ - loganair (No Competition)
EDI - (Bmibaby)
How much competition would they have on same routes our of BRS and who would their competitors be?
When the economy picks up or if the BD/LH situation results in no more Bmibaby then Flybe will be in the excellent position of having being in CWL for a number of years with an established brand. There is also room for expansion at CWL with more flights from other bases along with based aircraft at CWL.
Why Flybe only operate a JER to/from BRS maybe some kind of charter or is it a year round route?
Mathers
Brunel to Concorde
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A380
WATABENCH,
I saw the 380 pass almost over my house and slot into the landing queue. I posted on the Spectators Balcony that it would be delicious if some of the antis living under the flight path thought the 380 was actually going to land at BRS as it passed overhead, fearing it was some Machiavellian scheme hatched up by the airport as a regular route, although I have to say the aircraft was very quiet.
Flybe
Flybe, in its various incarnations, operated into BRS on scheduled routes for a number of years and by 2004 it had five routes from the airport – Belfast City, Bergerac, Bordeaux, Toulouse and Jersey. Incidentally, in summer 2004 BRS had four carriers on the JER route - Aurigny, Flybe, BACx and Air Southwest.
However, easyJet gradually began to compete on some of the Flybe routes and by the end of 2006 the airline had pulled them all except Jersey, presumably because it was unable to compete on the others. Its rival to Jersey was Air Southwest which it could apparently cope with. In fact ASW has reduced its own BRS-JER operation in the past year.
Flybe's decision now seems sensible because the other four routes are currently operated by easyJet or Ryanair.
In 2007 Flybe bought BAConnect that had eight routes from BRS and a five aircraft (ERJ145) base there. The routes were Frankfurt, Milan Malpensa, Zurich, Munich, Dusseldorf, Paris CDG, Edinburgh and Glasgow, the last two both 5 x daily in competition with easyJet's 3 x daily on both. Very quickly Flybe decided it would close the BRS base and axe all the former BACon routes.
I recently discovered a Competition Commission report on the internet relating to an enquiry into the effects of competition at BAA airports.
One of their case studies was a comparison of the airports of BRS, CWL and EXT to see how neighbouring airports under separate ownership affected competition. They took evidence from representatives of these airports and, amongst other things, the relationship of BRS with Flybe was highlighted.
The case study points out that by 2004 Exeter Airport was beginning to grow and BRS approached Flybe about moving its operations to Bristol, offering substantial inducements. Flybe declined, saying the advantage of keeping its home base at EXT was significant. Instead, the airline expanded its BRS operations (which brought routes to Bergerac, Toulouse and Bordeaux) but retained its EXT operations.
When it took over BACon in 2007 and decided to axe all the BACon BRS routes the airport tried to get them to stay but Flybe said they had better deals at Manchester and Birmingham airports.
The case study was told by BRS that they understood Flybe's 'strategic decision' but it was a surprise to them that Flybe had pulled off some key routes at BRS 'where they (Flybe) knew, and BA had admitted, they were making money'.
So it looks as though it is a strategic decision of Flybe to cut the ties with BRS, except for JER, even though some at least of the routes they inherited from BACon were making money, presumably on the basis that easyJet and/or Ryanair would trump anything significant they might come up with, as easyJet has done in the past.
Furthermore, the thought that some of their EXT routes might be diluted probably was a factor in virtually pulling out of BRS.
The case study is a fascinating document as it reveals some of the strategy behind the BRS management's method of attracting and keeping airlines.
It's the first time that I've seen the airport accept that 16% of its passenger numbers come from South Wales – the BRS master plan and other publications have usually put the figure between 10% and 12%.
The airport also says that with 'tweaking' the current facilities could handle 8mppa.
The link to the case study is here:
http://www.competition-commission.or...er_bristol.pdf
I am surprised that some of the content has been put into the public domain.
WATABENCH,
I saw the 380 pass almost over my house and slot into the landing queue. I posted on the Spectators Balcony that it would be delicious if some of the antis living under the flight path thought the 380 was actually going to land at BRS as it passed overhead, fearing it was some Machiavellian scheme hatched up by the airport as a regular route, although I have to say the aircraft was very quiet.
Flybe
Flybe, in its various incarnations, operated into BRS on scheduled routes for a number of years and by 2004 it had five routes from the airport – Belfast City, Bergerac, Bordeaux, Toulouse and Jersey. Incidentally, in summer 2004 BRS had four carriers on the JER route - Aurigny, Flybe, BACx and Air Southwest.
However, easyJet gradually began to compete on some of the Flybe routes and by the end of 2006 the airline had pulled them all except Jersey, presumably because it was unable to compete on the others. Its rival to Jersey was Air Southwest which it could apparently cope with. In fact ASW has reduced its own BRS-JER operation in the past year.
Flybe's decision now seems sensible because the other four routes are currently operated by easyJet or Ryanair.
In 2007 Flybe bought BAConnect that had eight routes from BRS and a five aircraft (ERJ145) base there. The routes were Frankfurt, Milan Malpensa, Zurich, Munich, Dusseldorf, Paris CDG, Edinburgh and Glasgow, the last two both 5 x daily in competition with easyJet's 3 x daily on both. Very quickly Flybe decided it would close the BRS base and axe all the former BACon routes.
I recently discovered a Competition Commission report on the internet relating to an enquiry into the effects of competition at BAA airports.
One of their case studies was a comparison of the airports of BRS, CWL and EXT to see how neighbouring airports under separate ownership affected competition. They took evidence from representatives of these airports and, amongst other things, the relationship of BRS with Flybe was highlighted.
The case study points out that by 2004 Exeter Airport was beginning to grow and BRS approached Flybe about moving its operations to Bristol, offering substantial inducements. Flybe declined, saying the advantage of keeping its home base at EXT was significant. Instead, the airline expanded its BRS operations (which brought routes to Bergerac, Toulouse and Bordeaux) but retained its EXT operations.
When it took over BACon in 2007 and decided to axe all the BACon BRS routes the airport tried to get them to stay but Flybe said they had better deals at Manchester and Birmingham airports.
The case study was told by BRS that they understood Flybe's 'strategic decision' but it was a surprise to them that Flybe had pulled off some key routes at BRS 'where they (Flybe) knew, and BA had admitted, they were making money'.
So it looks as though it is a strategic decision of Flybe to cut the ties with BRS, except for JER, even though some at least of the routes they inherited from BACon were making money, presumably on the basis that easyJet and/or Ryanair would trump anything significant they might come up with, as easyJet has done in the past.
Furthermore, the thought that some of their EXT routes might be diluted probably was a factor in virtually pulling out of BRS.
The case study is a fascinating document as it reveals some of the strategy behind the BRS management's method of attracting and keeping airlines.
It's the first time that I've seen the airport accept that 16% of its passenger numbers come from South Wales – the BRS master plan and other publications have usually put the figure between 10% and 12%.
The airport also says that with 'tweaking' the current facilities could handle 8mppa.
The link to the case study is here:
http://www.competition-commission.or...er_bristol.pdf
I am surprised that some of the content has been put into the public domain.
Last edited by MerchantVenturer; 6th Sep 2009 at 13:21. Reason: typo with incorrect figure
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Re - A380
Yes totally agree M V, there would have been some serious heart palpitations in tree huggers land 
Would have been interesting also to have listened to ATC communications - Easyjet you're number two to an A380!!!!!
Would have been interesting also to have listened to ATC communications - Easyjet you're number two to an A380!!!!!
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Thanks for the brilliant post RE FlyBE... Real shame they can't/ won't do anything at Bristol.
Now that Lufthansa own BMI, I wonder if they have any plans to add in BRS (Perhaps as part of a W to make up for the lack of business connections at all?) For me German routes are very handy as you have probably worked out by now.
Now that Lufthansa own BMI, I wonder if they have any plans to add in BRS (Perhaps as part of a W to make up for the lack of business connections at all?) For me German routes are very handy as you have probably worked out by now.
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M_V
That *is* a fascinating read, and as you say, less redacted than I would have expected. Having been interviewed for a similar CC exercise a couple of years ago, I know how things said in interviews can look very different in the final report.
It's interesting that the document reveals that the published table of charges for BRS is merely guidance. As a passenger, the airport charge for BRS always appears on my tickets at around the £16 mark, so I would assume the negotiations involve feeding some of that fee back to the airline. The words "net yield" suggest that spend in shops is taken into account. (I'd hazard a guess that LCCs argue that their passengers spend more in shops, so deserve a better rate. Where does that fit with FR's "no duty free" bags policy, I wonder?).
Sanito
As German/*A connections from BRS also interest me greatly, I've been keeping a close eye on the bmi situation, and it doesn't look promising. The indications are, currently, that LH would like not to be having to deal with BD, and maybe be seeking to divest it. That reduces the likelyhood of a BD operated BRS-Germany route quite a lot, I would have thought.
Nevertheless, given the debacle last night at BRS with KL canxing the 1054 and making passengers wait 5 hours for overnighting, it does highlight that there has got to be a better alternative for business travel to Europe. I'm afraid to say that I'm sticking to my "no KL" rule, and as a result, flying from LHR pretty regularly now. (I did EZY in from SXF last night, and got caught up in the KL chaos). I've got a whole load of European flying in September, and long haul in Oct and Dec, and would gladly have paid more to fly from Bristol. But not on KL.
That *is* a fascinating read, and as you say, less redacted than I would have expected. Having been interviewed for a similar CC exercise a couple of years ago, I know how things said in interviews can look very different in the final report.
It's interesting that the document reveals that the published table of charges for BRS is merely guidance. As a passenger, the airport charge for BRS always appears on my tickets at around the £16 mark, so I would assume the negotiations involve feeding some of that fee back to the airline. The words "net yield" suggest that spend in shops is taken into account. (I'd hazard a guess that LCCs argue that their passengers spend more in shops, so deserve a better rate. Where does that fit with FR's "no duty free" bags policy, I wonder?).
Sanito
As German/*A connections from BRS also interest me greatly, I've been keeping a close eye on the bmi situation, and it doesn't look promising. The indications are, currently, that LH would like not to be having to deal with BD, and maybe be seeking to divest it. That reduces the likelyhood of a BD operated BRS-Germany route quite a lot, I would have thought.
Nevertheless, given the debacle last night at BRS with KL canxing the 1054 and making passengers wait 5 hours for overnighting, it does highlight that there has got to be a better alternative for business travel to Europe. I'm afraid to say that I'm sticking to my "no KL" rule, and as a result, flying from LHR pretty regularly now. (I did EZY in from SXF last night, and got caught up in the KL chaos). I've got a whole load of European flying in September, and long haul in Oct and Dec, and would gladly have paid more to fly from Bristol. But not on KL.