BRISTOL - 4
Join Date: Jun 2005
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Yes, but suppose it was four of you travelling in which case the APD is £48 or that you were going to the States in which case the APD would be £240 for the four of you?
If Wales and Scotland get devolution powers they will use it to undermine English airports and it raise very serious issues about the United Kingdom. The best solution for this Government would be to recognise now that APD is a tax which has had its day and that it is costing jobs and UK competitiveness in the world market and it should go. The revenue foregone can be replaced, in part, by ETS and taxes from greater economic activity and lower unemployment benefits. APD is potentially a "poll tax on wings" and if I were in Government I would be worried, very worried.
If Wales and Scotland get devolution powers they will use it to undermine English airports and it raise very serious issues about the United Kingdom. The best solution for this Government would be to recognise now that APD is a tax which has had its day and that it is costing jobs and UK competitiveness in the world market and it should go. The revenue foregone can be replaced, in part, by ETS and taxes from greater economic activity and lower unemployment benefits. APD is potentially a "poll tax on wings" and if I were in Government I would be worried, very worried.
Join Date: Jan 2005
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The passengers will fly from which ever airport has the flights they need.... The situation at CWL is very dire in respect to that, it would take a huge shift from a big loco player to make any difference to this, in other words its got to be an airline to move over the bridge before the passengers do.
Brunel to Concorde
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APD
I'm not sure it's journalistic hype entirely.
If it were to happen and CWL had a nil apd and English airports had a £12 per short haul apd (it could well be more than that if rumours are true) then it would be a very tempting prospect for, say, Ryanair and/or easyJet if they could charge £12 less per each departure fare with little financial loss to themselves.
In the Severnside scenario the respective catchment sizes would have a bearing as well, and because of the imbalance in numbers and make-up (business and leisure) more people would have to be tempted from the English side to travel from CWL than currently happens in reverse, though numbers of Wales emanating or destined passengers using BRS are substantial – around 750,000 a year according to the last CAA survey in 2008.
The owners of those English airports that would be most seriously affected would certainly have a lot to say if they perceived the value of their investment decreasing owing to government action not evenly spread across all UK airports - this press report may be the opening shot from the BRS management.
If it were to happen and CWL had a nil apd and English airports had a £12 per short haul apd (it could well be more than that if rumours are true) then it would be a very tempting prospect for, say, Ryanair and/or easyJet if they could charge £12 less per each departure fare with little financial loss to themselves.
In the Severnside scenario the respective catchment sizes would have a bearing as well, and because of the imbalance in numbers and make-up (business and leisure) more people would have to be tempted from the English side to travel from CWL than currently happens in reverse, though numbers of Wales emanating or destined passengers using BRS are substantial – around 750,000 a year according to the last CAA survey in 2008.
The owners of those English airports that would be most seriously affected would certainly have a lot to say if they perceived the value of their investment decreasing owing to government action not evenly spread across all UK airports - this press report may be the opening shot from the BRS management.
Join Date: Jan 2006
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All gone a bit quiet lately,better let people know Bristol is still open !!, these promised announcements within the next few months after the Caglari routes conferrence from the three or four major full service airlines must be on finals soon, any bets on who/where ?
Join Date: Jan 2010
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I'm still hoping for a new carrier with German and Scandinavian routes (air Berlin recently rumoured although I don't know where that rumour started).
Also, do u think Ryanair and Easyjet will ever announce any new routes from BRS? It just seems that they have pulled routes for a long while now even though they still have large bases here.
One final thing, I recently flew Wizz Air and I was pleasantly surprised with them. It's a shame that Wizz never got off the ground at BRS (excuse the pun). They have an interesting route network to some decent destinations
Also, do u think Ryanair and Easyjet will ever announce any new routes from BRS? It just seems that they have pulled routes for a long while now even though they still have large bases here.
One final thing, I recently flew Wizz Air and I was pleasantly surprised with them. It's a shame that Wizz never got off the ground at BRS (excuse the pun). They have an interesting route network to some decent destinations
Brunel to Concorde
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OLT to Bremen
It used to operate from Filton to Hamburg and Bremen as a sort of inhouse aviation industry charter but was moved to BRS some years ago to try to pick up some fare-paying members of the public as well.
The Hamburg leg went west a couple of years ago and loads have been pretty dire. I assumed it was kept going by some sort of financial support from the aviation industry.
The Hamburg leg went west a couple of years ago and loads have been pretty dire. I assumed it was kept going by some sort of financial support from the aviation industry.
Join Date: May 2005
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Given that whenever I looked at booking BRS-BRE/HAM it cost about £700 return, I had rather assumed the shift towards making it appear to be a scheduled passenger service had something to do with reducing tax liabilities rather than attempting to run a viable commercial aircraft service.
I know I harp on about this, but Germany has a population of 89m people, it's one of our largest trading partners in the EU, and there is a large ex-pat German community in Bristol. So why on earth can't it sustain a scheduled airline service on an aligned carrier?
I wrote to Hr. Prock-Schauer at bmi a few weeks ago, noting their publicised strategic shift to serving LH hubs from British airports, and inviting him to base one of their aircraft at Bristol. (I even wrote in my bestest German so it couldn't get fobbed off to the usual customer service team).
I know I harp on about this, but Germany has a population of 89m people, it's one of our largest trading partners in the EU, and there is a large ex-pat German community in Bristol. So why on earth can't it sustain a scheduled airline service on an aligned carrier?
I wrote to Hr. Prock-Schauer at bmi a few weeks ago, noting their publicised strategic shift to serving LH hubs from British airports, and inviting him to base one of their aircraft at Bristol. (I even wrote in my bestest German so it couldn't get fobbed off to the usual customer service team).
Join Date: Aug 2002
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I even wrote in my bestest German so it couldn't get fobbed off to the usual customer service team
There has been a fair bit said by BD over the last year or so about using BD (regional in particular) to increasingly link UK regionals to LH groups hubs, but there doesn't seem to have been any actual action towards that end! They have launched ABZ-FRA, but that is apparently with LH E190s.
Brunel to Concorde
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Hello B_T
Re OLT to Bremen and originally Hamburg, from what I heard there was no real hope that the route would become a viable commercial service; it was more the thought that if some members of the public travelled as well as the aviation industry people it would at least help with some of the costs.
It seems that from October OLT is closing all its Bremen routes with Copenhagen, Zurich, Toulouse and the seasonal Heringsdorf all facing the axe in addition to Bristol.
More generally you will know probably better than anyone in this forum that the Lufthansa service to Frankfurt that operated from April 2008 until April 2009 had all sorts of teething propblems with its booking system with abnormally high fares often shown in the early days and even months. Nevertheless within the first six months of the route LH had announced that BRS-emanating pax had used every one of the airline's ongoing routes from FRA. 98,000 people used the route in the 13 months of its existence.
3 x daily (21 per week) Eurowings Bae 146-300 equipment did look a bit optimistic for such a new route for LH and I believe that even larger aircraft sometimes featured. The winter saw a reduced schedule. Monthly load factors were in a fairly constant range of 50-60%.
Prior to that BA, variously as Brymon, BACitiexpress and BAConnect, operated ERJ-145s to FRA (and MUC) year-round from the late 1990s until Flybe assumed control of BACon in 2007. Dusseldorf had been added to the portfolio about a year before BACon ceased flying and all the German routes were either daily or 6 x weekly. Monthly load factors seemed to vary between 50% and 80% and, depending to whom you spoke, the routes were either profitable or loss-making. FRA and MUC did operate for over seven years though and if they were loss-making why was DUS added and at the same time a fifth ERJ 145 added to the BRS base?
easyJet tried Hamburg from late 2005 though summer 2006 before axing it. Monthly load factors weren't brilliant with the best month around 70%.
Berlin (SXF) has been operating for over seven years and load factors have been good, usually into the 80s% most months and sometimes higher.
I suppose, Berlin apart, the picture is mixed vis-a-vis Germany which is perhaps the reason why such an obvious destination to punters may be viewed more cautiously by the operators who have to actually risk their dosh.
There was certainly hope that BRS and Germany might see more of each other when the LH Group announced they were looking to use bmi to link more UK and German airports. It was thought by some, including me I have to admit, that the current bmiRegional ERJ145 service to BRU on behalf of Brussels Airlines would be joined by at least one similar route to Germany on behalf of LH.
It might still happen, or something like it.
Before anyone points it out, I know load factors are not the definitive mark of a successful route but they do at least indicate the presence, or lack of it, of a potential market.
Re OLT to Bremen and originally Hamburg, from what I heard there was no real hope that the route would become a viable commercial service; it was more the thought that if some members of the public travelled as well as the aviation industry people it would at least help with some of the costs.
It seems that from October OLT is closing all its Bremen routes with Copenhagen, Zurich, Toulouse and the seasonal Heringsdorf all facing the axe in addition to Bristol.
More generally you will know probably better than anyone in this forum that the Lufthansa service to Frankfurt that operated from April 2008 until April 2009 had all sorts of teething propblems with its booking system with abnormally high fares often shown in the early days and even months. Nevertheless within the first six months of the route LH had announced that BRS-emanating pax had used every one of the airline's ongoing routes from FRA. 98,000 people used the route in the 13 months of its existence.
3 x daily (21 per week) Eurowings Bae 146-300 equipment did look a bit optimistic for such a new route for LH and I believe that even larger aircraft sometimes featured. The winter saw a reduced schedule. Monthly load factors were in a fairly constant range of 50-60%.
Prior to that BA, variously as Brymon, BACitiexpress and BAConnect, operated ERJ-145s to FRA (and MUC) year-round from the late 1990s until Flybe assumed control of BACon in 2007. Dusseldorf had been added to the portfolio about a year before BACon ceased flying and all the German routes were either daily or 6 x weekly. Monthly load factors seemed to vary between 50% and 80% and, depending to whom you spoke, the routes were either profitable or loss-making. FRA and MUC did operate for over seven years though and if they were loss-making why was DUS added and at the same time a fifth ERJ 145 added to the BRS base?
easyJet tried Hamburg from late 2005 though summer 2006 before axing it. Monthly load factors weren't brilliant with the best month around 70%.
Berlin (SXF) has been operating for over seven years and load factors have been good, usually into the 80s% most months and sometimes higher.
I suppose, Berlin apart, the picture is mixed vis-a-vis Germany which is perhaps the reason why such an obvious destination to punters may be viewed more cautiously by the operators who have to actually risk their dosh.
There was certainly hope that BRS and Germany might see more of each other when the LH Group announced they were looking to use bmi to link more UK and German airports. It was thought by some, including me I have to admit, that the current bmiRegional ERJ145 service to BRU on behalf of Brussels Airlines would be joined by at least one similar route to Germany on behalf of LH.
It might still happen, or something like it.
Before anyone points it out, I know load factors are not the definitive mark of a successful route but they do at least indicate the presence, or lack of it, of a potential market.
Brunel to Concorde
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Judicial Review
The minutes of the recent airport consultative committee meeting refer to SBAE's application for a judicial review into North Somerset Council's decision to grant outline planning consent for the airport's major expansion.
Robert Sinclair, BRS CEO, told the meeting that a judgement has been given on written submissions that there were no grounds for a judicial review to proceed.
The applicants have now asked for an oral hearing but a date has yet to be set for this.
Robert Sinclair, BRS CEO, told the meeting that a judgement has been given on written submissions that there were no grounds for a judicial review to proceed.
The applicants have now asked for an oral hearing but a date has yet to be set for this.
Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: Bristol
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BMI -> BRU
So I flew out of BRS on the early BRU flight- first time I have used BRS in quite a while.(Last time was before the new walkway with additional gates was open)
Firstly, it was absolutely rammed in the terminal- no seats anywhere, falling over people to get from A-B and the queue for security went right down the stairs and back to the Aer Lingus checkin desks. Not often in the past was it that busy.
Next thing is, the flight to BRU seemed completely full. First time I have ever seen that and I used to do Brussels every single week. My ticket was £530 (booked last week), which is significantly more than I used to pay, but I think I must have gotten the last seat in Economy. I wonder if the Avro will return to the Bristol route any time soon?
I am not a fan of the Embraer 145's- far too small, so hope the load factors get Brussels Airlines to get something a bit more roomy back down to Lulsgate and BMI put the Embraer on BRS- FRA
Firstly, it was absolutely rammed in the terminal- no seats anywhere, falling over people to get from A-B and the queue for security went right down the stairs and back to the Aer Lingus checkin desks. Not often in the past was it that busy.
Next thing is, the flight to BRU seemed completely full. First time I have ever seen that and I used to do Brussels every single week. My ticket was £530 (booked last week), which is significantly more than I used to pay, but I think I must have gotten the last seat in Economy. I wonder if the Avro will return to the Bristol route any time soon?
I am not a fan of the Embraer 145's- far too small, so hope the load factors get Brussels Airlines to get something a bit more roomy back down to Lulsgate and BMI put the Embraer on BRS- FRA
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£530!? I remember booking MAN-BRU 48 hrs in Advance on an RJ that was mind and it was 100% full, it was only £300 return for peak business times also.
You guys down in Bristol are getting charged considerably more!
You guys down in Bristol are getting charged considerably more!
Join Date: May 2005
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There's a robust discussion ongoing about whether BD can make a hubbing strategy (ala KLM->AMS and AF->CDG) profitable.
The big weakness is that their fleet consists of either ERJs or 319s. So either very small or a bit too big. "Too small" drives crazy fares to maintain yields, "too big" means finding (stealing) volume in the market that may not be there.
The Avros are on their way out generally - LH, LX are moving off them, and I should imagine SN will be too. They're quite thirsty for what they do.
Unfortunately, I can match your experience of fares, but counter it with examples of being one of 12 people on the BRS-BRU mid-morning flight.
The big weakness is that their fleet consists of either ERJs or 319s. So either very small or a bit too big. "Too small" drives crazy fares to maintain yields, "too big" means finding (stealing) volume in the market that may not be there.
The Avros are on their way out generally - LH, LX are moving off them, and I should imagine SN will be too. They're quite thirsty for what they do.
Unfortunately, I can match your experience of fares, but counter it with examples of being one of 12 people on the BRS-BRU mid-morning flight.
Brunel to Concorde
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BRS-BRU
Loads have increased substantially since Brussels Airlines started using bmiRegional ERJ 145s on the route in January 2010 in place of their own ARJ 85s.
In 2010 over 38,000 people used the route which was an increase of 23% on 2009. In the first seven months of this year passenger figures have increased by over 14% on the same period in 2010.
The 3 x daily ERJ features slightly fewer seats overall than the 2 x daily SN ARJ did so the increased passenger loads suggest the greater flexibility is having a positive effect.
Still a long way to go though to reach the 99,000 passengers who flew the route in 1999, and as recently as 2006 there were 63,000 but the route was once 4 x daily ARJs.
In 2010 over 38,000 people used the route which was an increase of 23% on 2009. In the first seven months of this year passenger figures have increased by over 14% on the same period in 2010.
The 3 x daily ERJ features slightly fewer seats overall than the 2 x daily SN ARJ did so the increased passenger loads suggest the greater flexibility is having a positive effect.
Still a long way to go though to reach the 99,000 passengers who flew the route in 1999, and as recently as 2006 there were 63,000 but the route was once 4 x daily ARJs.
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