Aer Lingus - 4

[EI-SHN]

that hole in the hedge in the west of Ireland!

Some of is call that hole home

For years and years Aer Lingus as a national airline was being dragged down the path of poor profits and uncompetitive practises as a result of Shannon

EI had many problems, and SNN was not the main one, so get the facts straight.
Sure SNN has had it's problems over the years, but you really can't just cut what is probally the airports most important route.
SNN only needs transatlantic flights for the sake of money. SNN needs the route to LHR for the sake of the West of Ireland. Cut SNN, and you'll just get yourself into a lot of trouble. It's such a vital link, many people rely on it for work, and vacations. If therte are protests, I can assure I'll be out there with everyone else supporting them.

[eastern wiseguy]

Some of is call that hole home

Good...it is just that I have no need to visit on my way to the US

probally the airports most important route

Don't know about that . BFS lost BOTH it's LHR services ..we seem to be coping

[Tom the Tenor]

EI-SHN, how about signing up to a petition for EI to do ORK-JFK!?

A petition - fancy that! You have to admire the determination of some of the Shannonsiders in these matters. If only similar determination could be found in Cork to champion local interests with regard to Cork Airport.

For what it is worth my sense is that EI would never allow itself to drop SNN-LHR completely so I would not for now have too many concerns for the future of flights to Heathrow. Other than that though Shannon has well and truly made her shorthaul bed with Ryanair.

[B257]

I cannot see aer fungus pulling all the snn-lhr flights. I fly every week to london and always choose ryanair as they are way cheaper this includes the price of the stanstead express to liverpool street.
Being irish i always had a gra for aer lingus the national airline, but now i just see them as an overpriced dinosour.

[Liffy 1M]

RTE's website is reporting the following this evening:

"Aer Lingus to cease Shannon-Heathrow flights

Sunday, 5 August 2007 19:57

Aer Lingus is set to cease direct flights between Shannon and Heathrow and transfer the link to Aldergrove airport in Northern Ireland.

The official announcement will be made by the Aer Lingus chief executive Dermot Mannion after he meets Aer Lingus personnel in Shannon on Tuesday morning and then attends a news conference at Stormont on Tuesday afternoon.

It is not clear if the Shannon decision will involve job losses, as negotiations between the unions and the airline are likely.

The Aer Lingus move to Aldergrove will create at least 100 jobs and as well as the Belfast to Heathrow direct flights.

Aer Lingus is expected to introduce at least six services from Aldergrove to mainland Europe.

Earlier this year Aer Lingus confirmed it would retain scheduled services from Shannon to the US throughout the winter months."

[akerosid]

Wait for the political reaction tomorrow; this is not going to go down at all well. I wonder if EI really knows how strong and long lasting the reaction will be; remember, for a start, that the govt's majority isn't all that big and with a good number of FF TDs in Clare, Limerick and Tipp, this is going to put a lot of pressure on the govt. I know EI is supposed to be independent, but ...

I think we're going to see massive pressure put on EI.

Also, does EI's plan to lease slots to CO at LHR still stand? If so, that will only (be seen to) add insult to injury.

[MarkD]

akero - lay the blame where it deserves to be laid. A lot of those pols have been responsible for useless land use and development policies which have retarded the growth of Limerick's west bank (boundary disputes) and Shannon itself. A town with an attached intercontinental airport and mandated service should be as big as Limerick if not bigger after all these years.

Meanwhile there were local pols in Halifax recently looking for transatlantic - all very laudable but the link to LHR will cost them dearly and they plainly have not had relationships with EI which let them see this coming. Why should they? In the past they only needed a relationship with the DoT and SIPTU to browbeat EI with but not any more. Now the "peace dividend" matters more to the powers that be than West Clare seats.

EI is not a charity. If SNN wants to renegotiate EI's fees to something nearer FR's that's their prerogative but then SNN has no money. As for connections to LHR, Flybe and BMI have LHR slots, let the Councillors make their appeals to them or find a way to finance the purchase of more slots for EI without the EU Commission throwing a wobbly.

[Tom the Tenor]

I am very puzzled by this situation about EI stopping snn-LHR services. Did not and would not have seen this coming in a month of wet Sundays.

Gee, the yield and the loads must have been dismal or were they? There are also the ongoing costs of hotel accommodation for the EI crews on a nightly basis and with the recent new savings in Cork by locally based crews maybe EI saw just how much this cost might be over a few years for crews staying overnight in the Shannon area on top of poor yields and then one thing leads to another especially considering what EI will have to plough in to the new Belfast base.

Maybe the two airport authorities at Cork and Shannon could put in a joint bid to bmi to start at least a once daily A319 service from LHR. Cork has long had need for a credible Star Alliance carrier to a hub with long haul flights to the East as well as some westbounds?

Wait till you see the media circus this will create in the snn area - it will be a scream to watch and listen.

[Livinginthepast]

I agree

Tom the Tenor makes some valid points which I agree with

Not many foresaw this development. There will be one hell of an uprising in the Limerick / Clare area over this one. Aer Lingus is operating on a more commerical basis than the past. Most of reasons for maintaining the link are sentimental and non commerical.

The reality is one plane doing three round trips a day is poor utilisation of a resource. The turnaround times are lengthy and even the most rudimentary analysis must realise this.

There were four options as I see it on a quick look.

1. To close the route down, and free up three landing (and three take off) slots. Aer Lingus would have access to information on connecting flights from Heathrow. I would guess that a significant proportion of flights were connecting on to European and American destinations served by Aer Lingus from Dublin and / or Cork. Why would they continue to act as a feeder service for their competitors? I know I have done this in the past.
2. To add an additional rotation to London Heathrow and use another landing slot, if available. Increased capacity to sell. If load factors were high on the three, maybe. Please tell us those who wish to keep the route open what they are.
3. To add an additional destination once a day and alter the existing timetable.
4. To move the narrow body Airbus to another base and have one or two rotations a day with a A330 making Shannon a single type base. Not likely.

Ryanair will continue to develop Shannon as a base. If it so attractive as a route, others will replace Aer Lingus on the Heathrow route. I doubt they will. It is more likely that someone will start (or restart) a service out of Stansted, Luton or Gatwick. Frankly, I don't care. I have had enough poor service out of Shannon to avoid it.

[Flame]

Hey guys

Wake up and smell the coffee..!!!!

Obviously SNN was not producing the results for EI and that is why it was dropped, its very simple really,

The days of listening to bleeding hearts and they in turn being able to change the mind of the airline and government are long gone...thats what happens when you allow private ownership of an airline

Going on about votes in the Shannon region is what I would have expected to hear 10 or 20 years ago, but in todays era of shareholders, EI must make decisions that improve the bottom line

I am no fan of the company, but the bottom line is profits not social awareness

[Livinginthepast]

Not Aer Lingus's Problem.

If EI have to pay a premium to use SNN and want to pay lower fees for move out, that is good business sense from EI and so what about SNN. If they want the business, generate volume and lower the costs. AA have pulled out. EI [short haul] will pull out. ORK is much nicer anyway.

[MUFC_fan]

BMI would not connect SNN with LHR as slots are scarce and they are planning US and African routes for their long-haul routes and after their takeover of BMED.

[gate 22]

IF EI start BFS-LHR there may very well be slots for BD at LHR. I don't think they will continue with the 8 rotations at BHD. Probably reduce to six.

[MUFC_fan]

Yes, and this would then mean a A332 rotation to the US.

An aircraft with 200+ seats inc. business class or an A319 with 140 economy paying pax? You do the maths.

[B257]

If EI have to pay a premium to use SNN and want to pay lower fees for move out, that is good business sense from EI and so what about SNN. If they want the business, generate volume and lower the costs. AA have pulled out. EI [short haul] will pull out. ORK is much nicer anyway.

How many flights did AA pull one a day ? Ork is a kip and a fog magnite.

[fullrich]

It amazes me that Aerlingus coming crying to the Government when ryanair try to buy them out but act very independently when making commercial decisions like this. Where are the govenment now? This is not just 4 flights daily to London. Its 4 daily to the world.

[gate 22]

Meanwhile, a new report produced by the Irish Echo newspaper in the US reveals that more than half of transatlantic travellers in America would choose to fly into Belfast as opposed to Dublin if the costs were less.

Eileen Murphy, of the Irish Echo, said: "Our report, based on a survey of readers, suggests that given discussions around a new Aer Lingus hub for the British market out of Belfast, the airlines will do well to note that a majority of our respondents (57%) say they would choose Belfast over Dublin as their end destination if the route cost less."

Currently airport taxes add almost $90 to the cost of flights between Belfast and New York versus Dublin-New York.

An article from Belfast Telegraph business section today, suggesting announcement tomorrow. Interesting read about transatlantic surveys. However the article suggests 'A320's' crossing the pond.

[EI-SHN]

Obviously SNN was not producing the results for EI and that is why it was dropped, its very simple really

Gee, the yield and the loads must have been dismal or were they?

Quite the opposite, they were doing quite well.
The fact of the matter is, EI wnated slots for BFS-LHR, and did not want to reduce DUB or ORK, and thus seeing as they don't like SNN that much, they decided that they'll just get them from here.
When people on here say they don't care it really hurst me. People stand to lose their jobs down here, and having worked alongside a number of them here, they stand to lose a lot. Don't forget there is a maintenance centre down here, and many of the men in there have families, some of whom I know, and have grown up with. If they lose their jobs, where do they go. They can't all go to Aerospace and Air Atlanta. They can't just get a job working with handling services at the airport. EI is their life line, and if they pull out, these guys are ******. And no one seems to care about thst.

[gate 22]

Its the nature of economics poeple want to fly for nothing, and thus the big boys like EI/BA with all their employees have been hit hardest. Long haul is next to be cut back with low cost carriers starting to look at them. In many ways BFS was the first to be hit this way. I know of BA folk who worked for years there, all layed off. The unions are a problem for the airlines so away of sorting the situation out is close services down. In a couple of years come back employ people under a different contract and there you have a new cheaper arrangement. Of course there still is the slot problem.

[en2r]

EI-SHN

Not meaning to be rude, EI isn't a state company anymore. You seem to think it should stay operating a route just to keep people in jobs. Its that kind of philiosophy that has held the company back for years. I'm sure if any staff are let go they will get substantial redundancy payments. No cabin crew will be affected as the LHR route is crewed by Dublin crews who overnight in London. Shannon has made its shorthaul bed with Ryanair and now it must lie on it. EI have been operating the route for years yet pay significantly higher charges than Ryanair do. I see now why Cork airport have been so reluctant to offer Ryanair a deal. Shannon has been the darling of the Irish Government for years and EI have been forced into operating services there for years. Thank goodness this seems to be finally over and Cork can finally have a level playing field.