Air France
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An article in the Aviation Supplement to Friday's Australian suggested that Alitalia could be doomed because KLM/AF have withdrawn due to insufficient concessions offered by the unions. And the EU won't countenance more state funds going into it the keep it afloat.
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Hyo MD
While in Naples..........don't forget to take the garbage out
)
Amazing what you can find when you fiddle with the search engine !!
No, this wasn't published yesterday by posted by RVR800...........on Sept 25th..........2001.
While in Naples..........don't forget to take the garbage out
)
Alitalia lose 2,500
In the past two weeks, US and European airlines have announced a total of more than 100,000 job losses.
Many carriers are also cutting capacity substantially.
Unprecedented
"The grave and immediate repercussions of the attacks on the US at a global level have created a crisis in the civil aviation industry unprecedented since the Second World War," Alitalia said in a statement.
The Alitalia cuts will affect one eighth of the company's 20,000 workers, with 900 flight staff and 1,600 ground staff jobs to go.
Twelve aircraft including four Boeing 747 jumbo jets are to be mothballed or sold while scheduled services to Hong Kong, Beijing and San Francisco are being suspended.
Capacity on routes to New York is being reduced.
Alitalia said the cuts were aimed at reducing losses in the six month period from October 2001 to March 2002 to about 400bn lire ($190m; £130m) from a previous estimate of 700bn lire.
The struggling airline had already notched up losses of 503bn lire in January-June this year, in a worsening performance since last year's 495bn lire full-year loss.
Shares suspended
Alitalia shares were suspended from trading on the Milan stock exchange on Tuesday, after exceeding the permitted 10% daily gain.
The stock exchange said the shares were suspended at 1113 GMT, when they stood at 0.734 euros, up 11.03%.
Despite Tuesday's rise, the shares remain about two-thirds down on their level 12 months ago.
Last week, Alitalia asked the Italian government for emergency support in light of the global aviation industry crisis and US support for its national carriers.
No response has yet been made public.
In the past two weeks, US and European airlines have announced a total of more than 100,000 job losses.
Many carriers are also cutting capacity substantially.
Unprecedented
"The grave and immediate repercussions of the attacks on the US at a global level have created a crisis in the civil aviation industry unprecedented since the Second World War," Alitalia said in a statement.
The Alitalia cuts will affect one eighth of the company's 20,000 workers, with 900 flight staff and 1,600 ground staff jobs to go.
Twelve aircraft including four Boeing 747 jumbo jets are to be mothballed or sold while scheduled services to Hong Kong, Beijing and San Francisco are being suspended.
Capacity on routes to New York is being reduced.
Alitalia said the cuts were aimed at reducing losses in the six month period from October 2001 to March 2002 to about 400bn lire ($190m; £130m) from a previous estimate of 700bn lire.
The struggling airline had already notched up losses of 503bn lire in January-June this year, in a worsening performance since last year's 495bn lire full-year loss.
Shares suspended
Alitalia shares were suspended from trading on the Milan stock exchange on Tuesday, after exceeding the permitted 10% daily gain.
The stock exchange said the shares were suspended at 1113 GMT, when they stood at 0.734 euros, up 11.03%.
Despite Tuesday's rise, the shares remain about two-thirds down on their level 12 months ago.
Last week, Alitalia asked the Italian government for emergency support in light of the global aviation industry crisis and US support for its national carriers.
No response has yet been made public.
No, this wasn't published yesterday by posted by RVR800...........on Sept 25th..........2001.
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tsk tsk
While in Naples..........don't forget to take the garbage out
your ways would drive me absolutly cookoo.
considering you belong to one of the least-liked european nations, I'd reign the cheek in... or else we'll have to start reminding you about all the things we love about the french... ahhhh don't get me started!
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or else we'll have to start reminding you about all the things we love about the french... ahhhh don't get me started!
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Don't have a problem with your comments Me Myself.
Quite obviously you don't want your employers current profits drained by a bunch of no-hopers.
Your operating language in the cockpit is French,...
Quite obviously you don't want your employers current profits drained by a bunch of no-hopers.
Your operating language in the cockpit is French,...
You mean we're not friends anymore ???
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Yeah, course we are, but like all "good neighbours" we have to recognise ( and appreciate ?) our " little" cultural differences, it's what makes it so fun . . . .well so my French ex-partner told me , but that is another story.
Anyway , felicitations on the lucky escape, shame to see all that profitability going down that bottomless pit on the other side of the Alps.
Bon Dimanche.
Anyway , felicitations on the lucky escape, shame to see all that profitability going down that bottomless pit on the other side of the Alps.
Bon Dimanche.
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AZ unions return to the negotiation table
Just heard on the radio:
The AZ unions agreed to return to the negotiation table! CGIL at least agreed to a second round of talks after Finance Minister Tommaso Padoa-Schioppa warned them about immediate bankruptcy procedures.
At least there may be some AZ employees / AZ union reps who are using their brains. I still remember the amount of help the AZ crews gave to their Swissair collegues after the grounding in 2001. In BKK an AZ crew hosted the whole SR crew, who were kicked out of their rooms.
Let's keep the fingers crossed!
Frank
The AZ unions agreed to return to the negotiation table! CGIL at least agreed to a second round of talks after Finance Minister Tommaso Padoa-Schioppa warned them about immediate bankruptcy procedures.
At least there may be some AZ employees / AZ union reps who are using their brains. I still remember the amount of help the AZ crews gave to their Swissair collegues after the grounding in 2001. In BKK an AZ crew hosted the whole SR crew, who were kicked out of their rooms.
Let's keep the fingers crossed!
Frank
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Members of the board of AF/KL
Originally Posted by Dysag
Conseil d'administration Air France:
10 membres représentant les actionnaires
8 représentants l'État !
2 représentants les actionnaires salariés
6 représentants les salariés (voix consultative
10 membres représentant les actionnaires
8 représentants l'État !
2 représentants les actionnaires salariés
6 représentants les salariés (voix consultative
This is completely misleading, as it is the board of the Air France subsidiary. The board of directors of Air France/KLM group has only three representatives from French authorities out of a total of sixteen board members.
Last edited by jouy31; 6th Apr 2008 at 20:16.
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The AZ unions agreed to return to the negotiation table!
...Basically he presented the unions with a take it or leave it offer, and when they presented a counter-offer he got up and left! There's probably a lot more going on behind the scenes than meets the eye...
By the way Fendant thanks for the moral support, it makes for a refreshing change on this forum...
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Basically, the thread's title instead of "Klm/AirFrance will take over Alitalia, 500 pilots will lose their jobs" could be changed to: "How many AZ people will lose their jobs if KLM/AF refuse to return to the negotiating table?" 
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Actually, it was never the unions who quit the negotiating table, it was JC Spinetta who walked off ...
Basically he presented the unions with a take it or leave it offer, and when they presented a counter-offer he got up and left! There's probably a lot more going on behind the scenes than meets the eye...
By the way Fendant thanks for the moral support, it makes for a refreshing change on this forum...
...Basically he presented the unions with a take it or leave it offer, and when they presented a counter-offer he got up and left! There's probably a lot more going on behind the scenes than meets the eye...
By the way Fendant thanks for the moral support, it makes for a refreshing change on this forum...
You make it sound as if the responsability of this amazing mess was just shifted to JC Spinetta's laps and the french had a responsability towards AZ. If so, let me pause briefly to laugh........done !
The so called " negociations " from AZ's unions was to invite a State consortium to be part of the deal. That's only inviting italian politics through the back door. Surely, you must be jesting.
All this is solely AZ's doing. No less. The french came, had a look, expressed the conditions under which they would go for the deal, got a no for an answer ( fair enough ) and left ( even fairer !!! ).
The board is probably meeting as I speak and I sure pray whoever that they don't go back into that snakepit.
We don't need AZ, any airline in Europe can pick up italian passengers using their own fleet. Lufthansa is the best equiped using the Swiss underused state of the art airport, or even Munich magnificent airport. A lot closer to Paris. That's why Spinetta wants ( or wanted ) AZ. AF would buy at a price close to nothing BUT how much money would we waste into this trying to rebuild it??? Nobody knows and this is a real worry to everybody. Italy's ways will always be the same.
Would it be Iberia I would be all for it. I am only relaying what is being talked among us on a daily basis because let me tell you that this is attracting a lot of attention here. Do not make the mistake to think it's just me.
French unions, no doubt, will voice their worries if this crazy charade goes through.
Sure, Fendant's post is very refreshing, but I don't think AZ ever put a bid to buy Swissair out of their financial pitfall. Lending a toothbrush is hardly to be compared to risking your job. All of a sudden, this forum is almost buzzing with " shoulds " and " ought " to AZ on AF's part. This is a farce.
Finally Main_dog, nobody likes you very much either.
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J'ai pige'
Finally Main_dog, nobody likes you very much either.
However, I think I'm finally beginning to understand what this is really about... it's the 2006 world cup you're still sore about, is it not?
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Ok ok, sorry, that was a low blow... 
Trying to get back on topic... don't be so touchy, MeMyself, no-one is trying to imply that your beloved JC Spinetta is responsible for AZ's situation. I think what I was trying to say is that the decision-making is probably occurring at far higher levels than most of us imagine... probably in the boardrooms of ENI-SUEZ-Gaz de France-EADS as well as in Brussels, the Champs-Elysees (excuse the spelling) and the Viminale.
Often what they feed us in newspapers is just what they want us to know!
Simple line pilots like you or me may squawk and moan, but at the end we're just employees... n'est-ce pas?
Good luck again to AZ pilots.
Trying to get back on topic... don't be so touchy, MeMyself, no-one is trying to imply that your beloved JC Spinetta is responsible for AZ's situation. I think what I was trying to say is that the decision-making is probably occurring at far higher levels than most of us imagine... probably in the boardrooms of ENI-SUEZ-Gaz de France-EADS as well as in Brussels, the Champs-Elysees (excuse the spelling) and the Viminale.
Often what they feed us in newspapers is just what they want us to know!
Simple line pilots like you or me may squawk and moan, but at the end we're just employees... n'est-ce pas?
Good luck again to AZ pilots.
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However, I think I'm finally beginning to understand what this is really about... it's the 2006 world cup you're still sore about, is it not?
I hate football and if you admire bullies like Materrazzi be my very guest.
These football players have the brain of a monkey and earn millions. Yuk !
My things are running and rugby and I should hate the Poms.........but I don't; sensitive me. I actually was in Yorshire when the English nailed the French. Talk of a death wish; walking straight into the snake pit. I had a grand time. Ther's nothing like an english country pub, trust me.
I-Ford
Honestly I-Ford, if we had the immediate ressources ( aircrafts, pilots ) I'm sure the order to march in would come right away. It ain't the case hence the ( not so brilliant idea in my view as you know ) to buy AZ out.
Lufthansa like the hard working / planning troopers they've always been are, as usual, ready to march in. They came, smellt the brew.......and decided not to commit. There will be a lot of german storks on italian airports very soon.
I have my ears stuck to the ground and can hear no stampede to Rome right now which seems to indicate no one is interested. I'm sure Berlusconi will ...........what was it ??? .........Ah, yes......pop something out of his hat. Real cute uncle Silvio..........who by the way was standing trial in Milano for........excuse me ?? Corruption in 2003. Brrrrr ! Good luck on election day !!
The italian travelling public,( the one who doesn't hold patriotic views and just wants to go from A to B without being hasseled) won't so picky about the airline they fly. It'll be LH, AF and possibly BA ( a bit too far north ).
I'm talking about those wealthy people from the north who, from what I understand from here, only make a lot of noise about the affair but really only think about themselves and despise people from the south. Am I that far off mark ?
The rest, you know, John Dow's like you and me, will have to make do with what's left to fly. Don't you find Air One silence a tad suspicious all of a sudden, after all that barracking they did?? They will just be creaming off what's left.
Bly me ! I nearly forgot the Russian alternative !!
You find the french ruthless " just you wait " as Lisa Doolittle so elegantly put it ( My fair Lady , in case you didn't know ). I am sure you will thoroughly enjoy it.......if you like being bullied and coerced that is.
Just one piece of advice.......never accept tea from those guys during negociations........! I understand it makes you glow in the dark.
Apart from what I told you, I have no clue what AF plan is........sorry was.
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..............the Champs-Elysees (excuse the spelling) and the Viminale
The Champs Elysées is the tackiest and most vulgar place in Paris and full of whores.......... and tourists........winning combination !
You must be refering to the Elysée Palace, the official residence of the president and his............italian wife. Is this the connection you see ?? You mean a board of directors can be overruled because the president is hopping to get lucky tonight ???
Let me pause on that one. It's too much to handle.
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Meeting of the AF/KL board of directors today
"At today’s Air France-KLM Board of Directors meeting, Mr. Jean-Cyril Spinetta informed members of the situation resulting from the breakdown in talks between Air France-KLM and the unions representing the different Alitalia employee categories.
The Board of Directors took note of the breaking off of talks, and understood and approved the reasons for this situation.
It was considered that the plan submitted by AF/KL on 14 March and subsequently amended during negotiation meetings on 18, 25, 31 March and 1 and 2 April was the only one that would enable Alitalia to return to profitable growth within a rapid timeframe.
It is now up to Alitalia, its employees and unions representing staff to say how they view the future of their airline."
(my bolding)
The Board of Directors took note of the breaking off of talks, and understood and approved the reasons for this situation.
It was considered that the plan submitted by AF/KL on 14 March and subsequently amended during negotiation meetings on 18, 25, 31 March and 1 and 2 April was the only one that would enable Alitalia to return to profitable growth within a rapid timeframe.
It is now up to Alitalia, its employees and unions representing staff to say how they view the future of their airline."
(my bolding)
